Eindecker EIII
02-09-2013, 07:47 PM
#201
RE: Eindecker EIII
ORIGINAL: R/C Art
Paul
She looks good up on her feet! That's a good range for the weight, too - I think your cowl helped with the CG.
My old 1/3 scale EI that I flew in competition for several years weighed in at about 42 lbs and it was a very good flyer and appeared light on the wing. That plane had a shorter wing span and narrower chord than Larry's versiion of the EIII.
Quick, get her covered tonight.....Saturday is supposed to be sunny and in the 40s. We can give her a test hop!
Cheers,,
Art
Paul
She looks good up on her feet! That's a good range for the weight, too - I think your cowl helped with the CG.
My old 1/3 scale EI that I flew in competition for several years weighed in at about 42 lbs and it was a very good flyer and appeared light on the wing. That plane had a shorter wing span and narrower chord than Larry's versiion of the EIII.
Quick, get her covered tonight.....Saturday is supposed to be sunny and in the 40s. We can give her a test hop!
Cheers,,
Art
Do you think you'll do a bungee'd landing gear on this EIII ? Probably wouldn't have to... Your EI's landing gear was rigid if I recall but as you say it was still light on its feet. The parts on this kit just look cool... Lots of engineering eye candy on this one isn't there?
Greg
02-10-2013, 05:30 AM
#202
RE: Eindecker EIII
No Greg, I won't be doing any suspension gear on this plane.......later on after we have been flying it for a while, maybe Larry will develop one as an add on for the kit. Its undecided at this time.
It will be interesting when we get with Paul and compare his gear function with ours.......
I knew you would like the the marvels of engineering that Larry has included in this kit!
Cheers,
Art
It will be interesting when we get with Paul and compare his gear function with ours.......
I knew you would like the the marvels of engineering that Larry has included in this kit!
Cheers,
Art
02-10-2013, 06:23 AM
#203
RE: Eindecker EIII
This series of photos show the floor supports, and what I like to call the "floor joists" followed by the pieces which close up the bottom of the airplane. These pieces are all Baltic birch ply.
Notice the forward piece has had relief cuts laser scribed on the inside which allows it to easily follow the contour of the fuse.
Also shown are the landing gear blocks (these are hard maple).
Time to add some glue ........
Notice the forward piece has had relief cuts laser scribed on the inside which allows it to easily follow the contour of the fuse.
Also shown are the landing gear blocks (these are hard maple).
Time to add some glue ........
02-10-2013, 02:55 PM
#206
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RE: Eindecker EIII
Just following along as I love to watch a craftsmen at work but have to ask, considering the size of the plane, wouldn't some sort of shock absorbing landing gear be a better idea? One bad landing and the is bound to be damage isn't there??
Bill S.
Bill S.
02-10-2013, 03:22 PM
#207
RE: Eindecker EIII
By "bad landing" do you mean crash landing?
My 1/3 scale Fokker EI (which weighted 42+ pounds and flew for 7 seasons) had no suspension in the landing gear. I had some rough encounters on landing over the years.........everything from heavy landings to hitting the high side of a rolling (kind of hilly) runway - this launched the plane up in the air about 5 feet, to skidding it sideways (very heard on the wheels) and never did anything but bend an axle a couple of times.
On one very heavy landing the wings pushed down pretty hard from the G loading and broke a servo arm on the wing warping servo.
It even nosed over twice.......the only thing that broke was the machine gun.
The only time the gear sustained any damage was when I crash landed - it broke an axle, tore up a wheel and busted the machine gun......plus a violent pitch to an upside down landing position.
So my answer - agian - is yes, a gear with suspension is always better than one without any suspension.......but not having suspension doesn't necessarily lead to damage on a bad landing.
But on a CRASH landing, it pretty much doesn't matter whether there is suspension or not - damage will occur.
My 1/3 scale Fokker EI (which weighted 42+ pounds and flew for 7 seasons) had no suspension in the landing gear. I had some rough encounters on landing over the years.........everything from heavy landings to hitting the high side of a rolling (kind of hilly) runway - this launched the plane up in the air about 5 feet, to skidding it sideways (very heard on the wheels) and never did anything but bend an axle a couple of times.
On one very heavy landing the wings pushed down pretty hard from the G loading and broke a servo arm on the wing warping servo.
It even nosed over twice.......the only thing that broke was the machine gun.
The only time the gear sustained any damage was when I crash landed - it broke an axle, tore up a wheel and busted the machine gun......plus a violent pitch to an upside down landing position.
So my answer - agian - is yes, a gear with suspension is always better than one without any suspension.......but not having suspension doesn't necessarily lead to damage on a bad landing.
But on a CRASH landing, it pretty much doesn't matter whether there is suspension or not - damage will occur.
02-10-2013, 03:50 PM
#208
RE: Eindecker EIII
The crash landing occurred at the 2008 Mint Julep Scale Classic. The winds were heavy all day.......as I landed I was struck with a severe 90 degree gust........gusts were reported in the area as high as 35 miles per hour......this one must have been pretty close to that.
I almost made it safely, as shown in the first picture. The wing warping works fairly well, but it is very slow and could not conteract the severe cross wind gust.
Actually it was quite spectatular! You can see the wheel flying off, the wheel disk also flying off and the axle (which broke off) is also visible in 2 of the pictures.
AH....what memories!
Pictures taken by of Ben Lanterman.
I almost made it safely, as shown in the first picture. The wing warping works fairly well, but it is very slow and could not conteract the severe cross wind gust.
Actually it was quite spectatular! You can see the wheel flying off, the wheel disk also flying off and the axle (which broke off) is also visible in 2 of the pictures.
AH....what memories!
Pictures taken by of Ben Lanterman.
02-10-2013, 04:47 PM
#209
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RE: Eindecker EIII
By bad landing I meant a bad, not crash, landing. pretty much how you explained everything but a crash.
A lot of weight in that plane but with your explanation of another plane with minimal side effects, have to say I'm very surprised that's all that happened.
The lack of damage might have a lot to do with how the plane was built, quality of the work in general actually.
Once again, says a lot about the builder, and flyer, as well!
Bill S.
A lot of weight in that plane but with your explanation of another plane with minimal side effects, have to say I'm very surprised that's all that happened.
The lack of damage might have a lot to do with how the plane was built, quality of the work in general actually.
Once again, says a lot about the builder, and flyer, as well!
Bill S.
02-10-2013, 05:18 PM
#210
RE: Eindecker EIII
ORIGINAL: Twin_Flyer
By bad landing I meant a bad, not crash, landing. pretty much how you explained everything but a crash.
A lot of weight in that plane but with your explanation of another plane with minimal side effects, have to say I'm very surprised that's all that happened.
The lack of damage might have a lot to do with how the plane was built, quality of the work in general actually.
Once again, says a lot about the builder, and flyer, as well!
Bill S.
By bad landing I meant a bad, not crash, landing. pretty much how you explained everything but a crash.
A lot of weight in that plane but with your explanation of another plane with minimal side effects, have to say I'm very surprised that's all that happened.
The lack of damage might have a lot to do with how the plane was built, quality of the work in general actually.
Once again, says a lot about the builder, and flyer, as well!
Bill S.
You are correct though....... as the weight increases so does kinetic energy and at some point we will all wish we had a good functioning landing gear instead of a rigid one. As for this kit, the designer has chosen rigid - but that doesn't mean the individual kit builders can't modify their own build - shoot - look how Paul made his gear. Like always, in the end its builder's choice.
Cheers,
Art
02-10-2013, 05:21 PM
#211
RE: Eindecker EIII
Starting the lay up of the ailerons......
Looks kind of hap-hazard doesn't!?!?! Remember, the laser bed is limited to 24 inch lengths......so I have to join a couple of pieces for each aileron.......when the glue dries, I will reposition these properly over the wing plans and then continue gluing up the ailerons.
Looks kind of hap-hazard doesn't!?!?! Remember, the laser bed is limited to 24 inch lengths......so I have to join a couple of pieces for each aileron.......when the glue dries, I will reposition these properly over the wing plans and then continue gluing up the ailerons.
02-10-2013, 05:53 PM
#212
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RE: Eindecker EIII
Hey Art I Remember flying that day . I agree it was a brutal crosswind that was very tough on all of us , some of us landed on our wheels , with funcional landing gear. My personal opinion , the landing you had that day did not matter if you had functioning or non functioning gear .. if someone besides you had a hold of the sticks at that particular time , that plane would have had alot more damage ....ALOT ! I have been watching you build this plane , it looks like a nice kit , it looks like it has alot of exta wood . almost overkill . what are you going to do about the extra weight that clearly is being built in ? this to me seems like it is going to be a heavy plane .
02-10-2013, 06:57 PM
#214
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RE: Eindecker EIII
Been able to get one wing panel mostly completed this weekend.
Still need cap strips and root ribs but I will start the other panel tomorrow.
A little boring building another airframe so soon after building the first one.
Billy,,
Rest assured as the designer and producer of this kit that there is not a single piece of wood in this airframe that is not
required for a light weight yet structurally sound airframe.
See Paul's post #196 on page #8 about the weight.
Larry
Still need cap strips and root ribs but I will start the other panel tomorrow.
A little boring building another airframe so soon after building the first one.
Billy,,
Rest assured as the designer and producer of this kit that there is not a single piece of wood in this airframe that is not
required for a light weight yet structurally sound airframe.
See Paul's post #196 on page #8 about the weight.
Larry
02-10-2013, 08:18 PM
#215
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RE: Eindecker EIII
Larry , Paul mentions being nose heavy , is the reason I ask . I didnt know if this is a kit issue or a builders choice issue .. I understand that the size of the plane has to be structurely sound . also being in the middle of the build with lots of work left ahead of you . to me it looks like alot of plywood for the nose . Do you intend to have functioning wing wires above and below the wings to the gear and the King post ?. Or , Is there going to be non functioning wires used . please do not be offended , I am only asking .
02-10-2013, 08:20 PM
#216
RE: Eindecker EIII
ORIGINAL: Billy Clink
Hey Art I Remember flying that day . I agree it was a brutal crosswind that was very tough on all of us , some of us landed on our wheels , with funcional landing gear. My personal opinion , the landing you had that day did not matter if you had functioning or non functioning gear .. if someone besides you had a hold of the sticks at that particular time , that plane would have had alot more damage ....ALOT ! I have been watching you build this plane , it looks like a nice kit , it looks like it has alot of exta wood . almost overkill . what are you going to do about the extra weight that clearly is being built in ? this to me seems like it is going to be a heavy plane .
Hey Art I Remember flying that day . I agree it was a brutal crosswind that was very tough on all of us , some of us landed on our wheels , with funcional landing gear. My personal opinion , the landing you had that day did not matter if you had functioning or non functioning gear .. if someone besides you had a hold of the sticks at that particular time , that plane would have had alot more damage ....ALOT ! I have been watching you build this plane , it looks like a nice kit , it looks like it has alot of exta wood . almost overkill . what are you going to do about the extra weight that clearly is being built in ? this to me seems like it is going to be a heavy plane .
......thanks - but did you see how close I came to touching down? Close but no cigar!
I hope I'm a little smarter now.
As for the weight - here's my opinion (and you know what is said about opinions) - I don't think there is an airframe out there that couldn't be lighter......and lighter flys better.
That being said - this is one big model with a big fuselage contributing to the overall lift and way over 3100 square inches of wing area.
Cheers,
Art
02-10-2013, 11:43 PM
#218
RE: Eindecker EIII
Keep in mind that Paul is using an aluminum "cowl" with a 1/4 inch wall thickness! That would be 3/4 inch on a full-size EIII so it's almost like armor!!! 
02-11-2013, 04:49 AM
#219
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RE: Eindecker EIII
ORIGINAL: Billy Clink
Sorry Larry , Paul mentions Real nose Heavy !
Sorry Larry , Paul mentions Real nose Heavy !
Hey Clink!
WoW long time no see!
My post of being real nose heavy was a GOOD thing! With this style plane having a tail sooo far back.....I was very worried how much nose lead it was going to take to balance plane. (I believe Art's was around 7#'s)
I can always remove the weight upfront to balance the plane with no lead. With the exception of the 1/2 scale ....none of my planes has had nose lead in them.......
I will admit .....at first glance I had concerns very similar to yours and maybe some others about the weight and materials being used. That was all put to rest when I put the airplane togeather and FINALLY relized
how big this airplane really is! LOL! And finally when I found that the plane should be built under 35#s ......Very happy and I agree with Larry.... "there is not a single piece of wood in this airframe that is not
required for a light weight yet structurally sound airframe. "
Good to hear from you Billy...
Dont worry.......... I will give you the sticks.....then you will be able to see 1st hand if she flys heavy......but I think you will be pleasently suprised
HPA
02-11-2013, 01:38 PM
#220
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RE: Eindecker EIII
Hello Paul , You can feed a Chicken hawk Chickens and it still wont fly like it would if it ate hummingbirds ! you guys just keep building . I havent heard from Larry , are the flying wires functional or not on this plane , if not I can see why the fuse is built so heavy ! If they are fuctional , can the fuse be built lighter than you guys are doing ? Hell paul , i know what you build needs to be strong , due to the super charged nitrous powerd engine you have hid behind the dummy radial . I think you put the heavy aluminum cowl on it not just for looks but as a scatter shield like a dragster has in case of excessive RPM engine explosion ! HorsePower Aviation at its best ! just kidden ,, keep up the good work !
02-12-2013, 04:46 AM
#221
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RE: Eindecker EIII
ORIGINAL: Billy Clink
Hello Paul , You can feed a Chicken hawk Chickens and it still wont fly like it would if it ate hummingbirds ! you guys just keep building . I havent heard from Larry , are the flying wires functional or not on this plane , if not I can see why the fuse is built so heavy ! If they are fuctional , can the fuse be built lighter than you guys are doing ? Hell paul , i know what you build needs to be strong , due to the super charged nitrous powerd engine you have hid behind the dummy radial . I think you put the heavy aluminum cowl on it not just for looks but as a scatter shield like a dragster has in case of excessive RPM engine explosion ! HorsePower Aviation at its best ! just kidden ,, keep up the good work !
Hello Paul , You can feed a Chicken hawk Chickens and it still wont fly like it would if it ate hummingbirds ! you guys just keep building . I havent heard from Larry , are the flying wires functional or not on this plane , if not I can see why the fuse is built so heavy ! If they are fuctional , can the fuse be built lighter than you guys are doing ? Hell paul , i know what you build needs to be strong , due to the super charged nitrous powerd engine you have hid behind the dummy radial . I think you put the heavy aluminum cowl on it not just for looks but as a scatter shield like a dragster has in case of excessive RPM engine explosion ! HorsePower Aviation at its best ! just kidden ,, keep up the good work !
The wires are not functional.............[X(][X(]
My Hummingbird has a DA 85 installed.....while this is not my normal power to weight ratio.....it should still pull the crap out of this plane[:-][:-]
I hope to see you at more events this year, we miss your.... weird off the wall,demented,perverted,paranoid,physco,immature,n ucklehead HUMOR!
Cheers,
HPA
02-12-2013, 08:34 AM
#222
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RE: Eindecker EIII
AWWWW , Paul , Im blushing ! thats the best comments I have had addressed to me in a long time ! THANKS FOR HOLDING BACK ! , Really looking forewards to seeing you guys and Flying with ya , Thanks for clearing up the no flying wires issue . keep building .
02-12-2013, 01:07 PM
#223
RE: Eindecker EIII
Ok, moving on.........
I reinforced the joint in the aileron trailing edge ...... and then I corrected my misplacement error by adding another bit of material so that the aileron rib would be properly positioned.
........looking around it seems that I have been bumped to the end of the line........Rhonda is staining/finishing a set of shelves......so I better be careful while the Poly dries.....and stay out of the way while the 2nd & 3rd coats go on.
I told her I was going out to do some sanding [X(][X(][X(] hahahaha
I reinforced the joint in the aileron trailing edge ...... and then I corrected my misplacement error by adding another bit of material so that the aileron rib would be properly positioned.
........looking around it seems that I have been bumped to the end of the line........Rhonda is staining/finishing a set of shelves......so I better be careful while the Poly dries.....and stay out of the way while the 2nd & 3rd coats go on.
I told her I was going out to do some sanding [X(][X(][X(] hahahaha
02-12-2013, 06:41 PM
#225
RE: Eindecker EIII
One step forward and two steps back [:@]
Somehow the reinforecment strips for the ailerons didn't glue up properly. I had used the same Gorilla carpentry glue that I've been using all along. When I repositioned the piece on the building board the glue joint failed and the strips were easily pulled off. ?????
So I got out my exacto chisel blade and cleaned the rest of the strips off of the trailing edge.......it came off too easily. I scratched my head a couple of times and then decided to modify it the same way I modified the wing panel trailing edges.
I cut 1/16" pieces from a/c ply and glued up the joint again.......I think it'stuck this time!
Somehow the reinforecment strips for the ailerons didn't glue up properly. I had used the same Gorilla carpentry glue that I've been using all along. When I repositioned the piece on the building board the glue joint failed and the strips were easily pulled off. ?????
So I got out my exacto chisel blade and cleaned the rest of the strips off of the trailing edge.......it came off too easily. I scratched my head a couple of times and then decided to modify it the same way I modified the wing panel trailing edges.
I cut 1/16" pieces from a/c ply and glued up the joint again.......I think it'stuck this time!