Half Scale Nieuport 11
03-08-2015, 01:55 PM
#651
Now I need to trim the straps and file ends smooth, fit a little box around the hinge opening in the aileron to attach the covering. Also add a T nut in place of the regular nut - of course a ply plate will have to be fabricated for this. This will become clearer when I get it in place.
Then switch to the other wing and do it again.
Then switch to the other wing and do it again.
03-08-2015, 02:54 PM
#654
Well ..... sort of Steve......at least I got a little bit accomplished 
Right Doc - brass on brass. On my third scale N-11 the torque rod was a wooden dowel......it was fine with the brass strap, that is until the plane got caught in the rain on day 1 at the Mint Julep. The dowel rod swelled up and locked the ailerons up tight. By the next morning one aileron was back to normal but the other was still locked up - I wanted to unhook the aileron servo and fly the last two rounds, but the wife wouldn't let me.......probably a good decision. When I got back home I had to remove the strap hinges and sand the dowel until there was sufficient clearance to function properly.
Right Doc - brass on brass. On my third scale N-11 the torque rod was a wooden dowel......it was fine with the brass strap, that is until the plane got caught in the rain on day 1 at the Mint Julep. The dowel rod swelled up and locked the ailerons up tight. By the next morning one aileron was back to normal but the other was still locked up - I wanted to unhook the aileron servo and fly the last two rounds, but the wife wouldn't let me.......probably a good decision. When I got back home I had to remove the strap hinges and sand the dowel until there was sufficient clearance to function properly.
03-08-2015, 03:05 PM
#655
Some people were worried about twist in the carbon tube allowing less than full control when flying loads were applied (relative wind pressure) and were suggesting gluing an aluminum tube inside the carbon tube. Ive never noticed any problems and didn't do the tube in a tube thing but you have a lot more distance from the crank to the aileron so just make sure it doesn't twist when torque is applied.
Doc
Doc
03-08-2015, 04:13 PM
#656
Well Doc, it is what it is (as they say)(and no I don't know who they are). I really won't know until I get the aileron installed and the crank attached - and that attachment is a permanent one. I do know that when I put a twisting force on the tube with my hands there is very little movement. Much, much less than what my third scale N-11 had with its wooden dowel. On it I could negate all the aileron movement, either direction - up or down - with a push of my finger. It did not pose any problem in flight. So on this bird, I anticipate it to be a rudder ship with aileron assist (much like my third scale). This design flies and looks better in flight when flown with rudder anyway, and I kind of expect it to be slow to respond in the roll department.
If it turns out to be not responsive enough for safe flight, then I will move the aileron servos out to the wing and drive the ailerons in a more conventional manner.
If it turns out to be not responsive enough for safe flight, then I will move the aileron servos out to the wing and drive the ailerons in a more conventional manner.
03-09-2015, 02:06 PM
#657
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If I remember my engineering principles correctly a tube will resist twisting forces better than a rod. Something about torsional resilience. That's why motor vehicles use tube type drive shafts. Less chance of failure.
03-14-2015, 08:04 AM
#659
Art
I wouldn't worry about torque on those shafts. Most carbon fiber golf club shafts are rated between 2 and 5 percent. I would be more concerned that the carbon fiber shafts would tend to flex at a rate different than the wing. Could that cause binding or have you already experimented with this setup?
Still enjoying your build during this long winter!
I wouldn't worry about torque on those shafts. Most carbon fiber golf club shafts are rated between 2 and 5 percent. I would be more concerned that the carbon fiber shafts would tend to flex at a rate different than the wing. Could that cause binding or have you already experimented with this setup?
Still enjoying your build during this long winter!
03-14-2015, 04:27 PM
#660
Hi Tim
I dunno - never thought of that issue so I obviously haven't tested for it. Like my old friend who was a Chinook crew chief in the Army said, "Mark it yellow and then fly and watch!" They seemed to fly those helicopters with a lot maintenance items marked yellow at Ft Campbell and none ever went down when I was there. So it must be a good system, right?
On Barry's 1/3 scale N-11 built from my plans, he used carbon fiber tubes and didn't have any issues......so it must be ok.
I dunno - never thought of that issue so I obviously haven't tested for it. Like my old friend who was a Chinook crew chief in the Army said, "Mark it yellow and then fly and watch!" They seemed to fly those helicopters with a lot maintenance items marked yellow at Ft Campbell and none ever went down when I was there. So it must be a good system, right?
On Barry's 1/3 scale N-11 built from my plans, he used carbon fiber tubes and didn't have any issues......so it must be ok.
Last edited by R/C Art; 03-14-2015 at 04:30 PM.
03-19-2015, 02:03 PM
#665
When I am forced to choose between a Dawn Patrol event or a scale competition event - the Dawn Patrol wins 99 times out of a hundred.
Just head toward Cincinnati instead of Muncie - guaranteed to have more fun!
03-19-2015, 03:21 PM
#666
Wow, I was not aware of this. I was actually kind of glad for the date change, as the CL combat will be going on at the same time as scale now. I understand your dilemma though, and more than anything I am bummed I will not get to fly with you this year. I have a new plane as well, and it has been built specifically for national competition. It is WW2 though. Maybe one day I will get to make a WW 1 event and I can haul my Jasta over to fly formation with you!
03-22-2015, 12:28 PM
#667
I poked my head out of the shell for a while .........
.....finally got the aileron hinges formed and mounted so that the movement is not too tight or too loose. Such a tight rope to walk!
I also drilled the tube in two places for insertion of 1/16" wire to control the end play of the aileron/torque rod. It doesn't show up well in the picture, but its there.
I also received a pair of 14 inch bicycle wheels from a friend out east. They actually measure 13 and 3/4 inches.......almost perfectly sized......yippeeee!
Now just 4 or 5 more major headache areas of design to clear up and then it's on to easy sailing
.....finally got the aileron hinges formed and mounted so that the movement is not too tight or too loose. Such a tight rope to walk!
I also drilled the tube in two places for insertion of 1/16" wire to control the end play of the aileron/torque rod. It doesn't show up well in the picture, but its there.
I also received a pair of 14 inch bicycle wheels from a friend out east. They actually measure 13 and 3/4 inches.......almost perfectly sized......yippeeee!
Now just 4 or 5 more major headache areas of design to clear up and then it's on to easy sailing
03-22-2015, 02:25 PM
#668
Nice work Art! The last few posts on the previous page are convincing me to try the brass hinge strap technique on my next project. Looks better than my robart hinge points.
-Greg
-Greg
03-22-2015, 03:02 PM
#669
Dave, here is the last part of how the hinges are installed .... this wasn't shown very well in the drawings.
Small strips of plywood on each side of the brass strap to provide clearance for the strap to be inserted.......and then an upper strip of 1/8" a/c ply a 4-40 T-nut to secure the bolt.
Small strips of plywood on each side of the brass strap to provide clearance for the strap to be inserted.......and then an upper strip of 1/8" a/c ply a 4-40 T-nut to secure the bolt.
Last edited by R/C Art; 03-22-2015 at 03:07 PM.
03-22-2015, 03:18 PM
#670
One aileron secured - one to go. Greg, this process is not really difficult but the work with the brass to get the required clearances requires precision and severely tested my patience........I think you wouldn't have any problems at all using these hinges - you have a much better mind set for this type of work than I do.
You don't know how close I came to cutting the torque tube at the aileron and drilling for the large Robart hinge points. If you remember, that's what I resorted to on the rudder. I still have to get the aileron crank assembled and installed before this process can be deemed a success.
You don't know how close I came to cutting the torque tube at the aileron and drilling for the large Robart hinge points. If you remember, that's what I resorted to on the rudder. I still have to get the aileron crank assembled and installed before this process can be deemed a success.
03-24-2015, 02:51 PM
#674
One aileron secured - one to go. Greg, this process is not really difficult but the work with the brass to get the required clearances requires precision and severely tested my patience........I think you wouldn't have any problems at all using these hinges - you have a much better mind set for this type of work than I do.
You don't know how close I came to cutting the torque tube at the aileron and drilling for the large Robart hinge points. If you remember, that's what I resorted to on the rudder. I still have to get the aileron crank assembled and installed before this process can be deemed a success.
You don't know how close I came to cutting the torque tube at the aileron and drilling for the large Robart hinge points. If you remember, that's what I resorted to on the rudder. I still have to get the aileron crank assembled and installed before this process can be deemed a success.
