jack steward350

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Do I get a pin or a hat? Maybe a coffee cup for my warm milk at night! ha!

FlyerInOKC

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Only if you pay dues and so far all the members are notorious cheapskates. They pinch pennies so hard Lincoln cries out in agony!

jack steward350

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Rivets in place on the rudder. The control horn is made from 1/16th G-10 keyed into the rudder LE and ready to be epoxied in place.

FlyerInOKC

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I could be wrong but it really looks like a fin and rudder to me. Nice work Jack!

jack steward350

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Thanks and I think you are correct it does look a bit like a P12 fin and rudder. It still needs the nav light and some paint but other than that it is ready to be installed.........hope it fits! Pretty happy with the total weight at 3.2 oz. I have a NIB GP hawk P6E and the weight of its fin and rudder is 3.8 oz. but even though the scale is the same the hawk has a larger fin and rudder. I believe the wing area is about the same as the hawk.

I will be out of town for a few days so no fun with the P12 until I return. Finally got nice up north here so where am I heading for the weekend? Further north where it is not so nice yet! Hmmmmmm. that's not right.

jack steward350

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I am back from my mini vacation and am glad to report Canada is still there although I only saw it from the US side of the border from Frostbite Falls, MN. I am going to add the rest of the red, white and blue to the rudder. I have decided to make another rudder mold as I am not happy with the shape of the cross section but this can wait till later and should not be a big problem. The other molds need the wax half rounds added and then cast. I am still wavering between sending the horizontal and elevator molds out to have the skins vacuformed or making my own larger vacuum former and doing the forming myself. I have been wanting to replace the larger vacumformer that I sold many years ago and now might be a good time to do just that.

jack steward350

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Painted rudder and fin with correct colors of insignia red,insignia white and insignia blue. needs some touchup as I would expect with the corrugation and flange. It was nice that the line between the white and red fall on the same corrugations as per the full scale. Sometimes you just get lucky.

jack steward350

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OOOOPS! The red and white stripes will need a slight adjustment on the final paint job. Those corrugations can drive a person nuts trying to get all the variables lined up. Some parting lines are on the center of the corrugation, some are on the bottom and some run along the top. The only thing consistent is that two show in the white fields. Those little adjustments make a big difference in getting the stripes in an exact scale location.

Hmmmm. I guess sometimes you only think you got lucky and find out later...... not so much. Reminds me of a girl I met one night at a bar while I was in college! :0[

FlyerInOKC

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Still the paint job looks good! Maybe the full size guy screwed up? It's funny I really had to look to see the difference!

jack steward350

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The difference is there and that is the curse of being a scale modeler with mild OCD. The navy version, with a solid color rudder and fin, and this would not be a concern.

FlyerInOKC

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Go Navy!

Chad Veich

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Looks fantastic Jack! Will you be bringing her out to Arizona at any point? I'd love to see it "in the flesh" when you get it done.

rcphotog

When gathering your documentation, stick to just one full size prototype.
Here's a PT-17 based at Chino,Ca. (I don't beleive a part of the Planes of Fame collection)
Take a look at the rudder stripes and see if you can see - what's wrong with this picture?
it will drive you crazy if you try to match both military (wartime photos) and modern restored planes.

jack steward350

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I think that is very sound advice! As for the photo I see an extra white stripe at the top of the rudder and that makes 14...not 13 stripes. Also the width of the stripes are not equal...or at least do not appear equal in the photo. Finally the blue stripe is the same color as the fuselage and should be a darker insignia blue.


As for me personally being driven crazy...it would be a short drive and probably would be easier and faster to walk.

Thanks for the great suggestion.

jack steward350

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Hey Chad,

I can't remember ever building a scale model with out a vision of having that clear blue AZ sky as a back drop. So yes, God willing, I will bring a p12 to AZ. I was thinking of doing the maiden there with Jay to either do the honors or at least hold my metaphorical hand.

I do have a long ways to go on the project but see no reason it won't come to fruition.

Good to hear from you Chad.

jack steward350

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The corrugations are set up on the horizontal. There were subtle differences between the navy and army versions. One that I had never heard or read about yet was the corrugations at the tips of the horizontal and elevator. From the notch out to the tip the navy version had 6 and the army 5. The spaces between the corrugations were wider apart from the notch outward on the army models. The shape of the elevator tip radius was also weaker on the army models. Yeah I know a lot of you navy guys are thinking, " Of course it was weaker on the army models!" I think I remember that as a question on Jeopardy years ago.

FlyerInOKC

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God forbid the Army and Navy would standardize something between branches!

jack steward350

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These are the tools I used to attach the wax wire half rounds to the horizontal. The orange card stock is a gauge to keep the half rounds square to the TE. The plastic straight edge is used to adjust the half rounds so they are straight. This is no more tedious or time consuming than rivets or rib stitches.

jack steward350

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Continuing to apply the corrugations to the horizontal. The hard point for the wire bracing has been reckoned and a slight modification has been made to bring the corrugations into scale.
I have decided to make a larger vacuum forming machine so I can pull parts myself as I did with the fin and rudder which will make any problems encountered with the process easier to resolve should any crop up. I can include the build of the vacuum forming machine in this thread if there is an interest.

This is the first time I have ever documented a build on a thread and I am not sure what is proper to include and what is not.

FlyerInOKC

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I have been kicking around making one so please post the vacuum machine.

jack steward350

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I will include it which means it is time to hit some garage sales to see if I can find a heating element without having to spend too much. This will be low tech made from some recycled parts but it will get the job done. The smaller one that I have been using for the last 8 years includes a very used quartz heater, scrap conduit pipe, a used 3 way toggle switch, a used ground fault receptacle and parts from an old screen door. Some might refer to it as a MacGyver vacuum former. But as you can see with a little finesse it works just fine.

FlyerInOKC

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If I remember correctly in one thread on this site several members mentioned using the element out of an old frier or oven for a vacuum former. I guy because of the size had to heat from both sides and used a pair of cheap heat lamps for the top element. You may need to heat from both sides depending on size and plastic thickness.

jack steward350

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Thanks for the info. I have been vacuum forming for around 25 years and have never had to heat from both sides and I have formed plastic as thick as .080. Compared to ABS or butyrate this PETG is very easy to work with....no pre drying and softens quick to a moldable constancy. I have a line on a vacuum pump from an old milking machine that has a vacuum switch. This may be too large for my purposes but I will take a look b4 it goes to be recycled. The shop vac I have been already using should be adequate for my purposes but that is yet to be known. I will just have to snoop around a bit and see what I can find. I could even have a heating element made to size at a reasonable cost which is what I did with the larger machine I made and then sold. The modern machines are using infrared heat to soften the plastic. As seldom as I need to use the machine going that route would probably be unwarranted. After years of experimentation and research I think isolating the heat to where it is needed is very desirable. Some of the very large machines I have seen in use have a heating element that is like a large iron.....like as in a clothes iron.

jack steward350

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I also like to place the vacuum holes around the mold to only where they are needed. This means each mold gets its own plate to sit on. I make the plate or platen they sit on out of tempered Masonite which has worked fine. The ideal size for the vacuum holes is about 1/64th to 1/32nd inch. I was fortunate enough to know a club member who was the plant manager for a large co that thermal formed plastic by the semi loads....Cako...they made pastry covers for cakes and such. I gleaned a lot of insight into what works and what doesn't from touring the factory as his guest. They sure went through a lot of tiny drill bits in prepping the molds for use.

Does all this mean I know what I am doing....no! I always welcome comments and suggestions as you never know where a new innovation might come from! I have also discovered there are some very crafty, knowledgeable people on these forums.

FlyerInOKC

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Well if it works we will assume you do so don't disillusion us!