dabrown

Any tutorial info you can provide would be sincerely appreciated. Hopefully this won't turn your great build thread into discussions of other/better methods. Yours seems to work well; we'd like to see how you do it. I see several opportunities for vacuum forming bits and pieces for my P-1B.

Thanks,

Dave

jack steward350

My Feedback: (7)

When I started this project I choose it no 1 because I like the Boeing P12 F4b, No. 2 because of the challenge of the corrugated surfaces. It may seem to many like a bunch of extra tinkering to make molds and in many respects I agree. Historically when I have designed and scratch built scale models it has never been just one of the subject but at least two. In the case of the N28s it was 5. This was an experiment to see if the problems presented by the corrugations could be solved and so far it looks real promising. The real pay off to all this will come with the 2nd or 3rd and maybe even 4th models.........a. navy version just beckons to be built too.

As for a better way? I am open to suggestions as I have said but what interests me the most is what works for me in my small one light bulb shop.

jack steward350

My Feedback: (7)

Completed wax half rounds installed on both horizontal halves.

jack steward350

My Feedback: (7)

This is the very beginning of the face plate mold. This will be the model for face plate or tulip? It will be enlarged using a ruby laser probe, then CNC routed, touched up and inspected for accuracy along the way. The end result will be a ready to use vacuum forming mold of a Boeing faceplate that fits the WB 1/5 P&R. I volunteered my nephew, Dylan, to do this.

In the past, on parts like this, I have overlaid nylon cloth with ca to the inside to strengthen them.

Madman

Jack

Do you have a projected weight and power system for this plane? I looked quickly but couldn't see anything. Thank you.

Stephen

jack steward350

My Feedback: (7)

I can't remember if I relayed any info on that or not. I am planning on a Saito 1.25 for power and this should be plenty with a 68" wing span. I have designed the size around the Williams Bros 1/5th scale P&W which a bit under 1/5th. As for weight all I can do is build as light and as strong as I can come up with. I would guess around 13 to 15 pounds?

TomCrump

I had written a post to warn you about the weight of the Williams radial, but you alread have it covered by making that beautiful engine face plate.

It's too bad that I'm so far along. I would have tried to pry one of the face plates out of your hands. It would be very appropriate in the nose of my model.

My Brougham is nearly completed. The last major remaining item is graphics. Here are a few pics of my progress.

jack steward350

My Feedback: (7)

Hi Tom,

That is really looking nice. I am not too concerned with the weight of the WB dummy as this bird will need the weight to come into balance. You would be more than welcome to a face plate....I think every one should have one in their shop just in case! I also have access to an enameled reproduction of the P&W logo that fits to the front of the engine. I will get a photo of that piece posted.

As for the cowl, not a concern as I will be making my own to fit the scale and the WB P&W. The ring cowl did have a bit of a different shape than the Broughams' .I like the idea of a P12 version with the cowl as it protects that great looking P&W in the event of a nose over on that 60 grit sand paper runway out in AZ.

Thanks for posting the photos that really is turning out in excellent fashion!

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Hey Jack where did you get that faceplate?

dabrown

Tom,

...or anybody interested. If you haven't found the San Diego Air and Space Museum's photo archives, it really is worth a look. The images are hosted on Flickr.com. Alot of times photos you're looking for don't show up in a google search but I discovered a bunch of images of my P-1 there. If this link works correctly, it will have quite a few Ryan Brougham photos since San Diego was the home of Ryan:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/494872...ith/5684170177

I also looked for Boeing F4B, but not so many:

https://www.flickr.com/search/?w=494...q=boeing%20f4b

I also found on Flickr, totally by luck, the Wylam drawings of the P-1 which were posted on Flickr by EAA's Air Venture Museum. Also several other of Wylam's sets.

I could spend all day browsing the SDASM's photos. It says there are 172,000. Don't know if they're still adding. Maybe you want to stay away -- having one or two good shots of the airplane you're modelling might be alot better than hundreds of variations on the same subject, eh?

Dave

jack steward350

My Feedback: (7)

The most recently posted photo is one from the Hasegawa 1/32nd scale P12 plastic kit. That will be used along with photos to cnc a new mold to fit the WB P&W.

This is an old 1/7th scale one I made years ago but on this model I am starting fresh on the face plate.

jack steward350

My Feedback: (7)

I have been getting things together to make a larger vacuum former and considering the possibilities for a heat source it looks like an infrared element is the best choice. I have begun a search for used units and it is looking like making my own will be the fastest way to go. OK if I buy the components when I get it finished a free used one that is perfect will suddenly appear! Here is a photo of what one of the elements look like. The wiring is simple. the advantages to this type of element: The heat can be focused on the material where it is needed, low energy consumption, instant heat and near instant off. Some of these elements of the higher voltage range can reach temperatures of 4,0000 degrees F. Cost? For my needs? around 120 dollars US. OUCH! That makes it worth searching a little longer for something used.

TomCrump

Thanks, Jack ! I'll send you a PM to get the particulars.

Dave

Only a few Broughams had a cowl. The one in the above pic, is slightly different that the one that I was looking for. I had to modify a Fiberglass Specialties piece, for mine. It was not the precise shape that I wanted. They didn't make the correct one in my desired diameter. There was also a V-8 version, with a very unique cowl. I was tempted to model it, but I wanted to use that magnificent Williams Bros radial.

In my research, I had run across the SDASM pictures on Flicker. They were a valuable asset. I need to visit it again. Those pics provide inspiration for future builds !

cocobear

My Feedback: (2)

Jack, how big a former are you planning??

Dave

cocobear

My Feedback: (2)

Tom, your plane is magnificent!

Dave

jack steward350

My Feedback: (7)

Hi Dave,

The forming area needs to be 9x18 inches so not real large but large enough that larger quartz infrared elements will be needed. The plastic I get comes in 14x20 inch sheets which would be the right size for the frame that holds the plastic.

cocobear

My Feedback: (2)

Check this out. I have seen them work. The element is good and cheap.
http://www.build-stuff.com/1001plans_hobby_vac.htm

jack steward350

My Feedback: (7)

Thanks Dave! I read through and those folks know what is what. The platen size is just 2 inches short to accommodate aileron skin molds and that is the catch. The oven size will work and the heating element is about half the cost of what I was looking at. That's a plus. I have never used the flip style of machine and have always had the element above the platen and dropped the softened plastic onto the mold and platen which makes it easier to pull the plastic twice to get sharper details on a male mold such as I am using.

Seems like the heating elements are always the most expensive and hardest part to come up with.

I really like the idea of being able to have different size platens and sheet frames on the same machine....why didn't I think of that?

jack steward350

My Feedback: (7)

After thinking a little, UH OOOH! , I think I have been able to get away with using a small shop vac, as apposed to a decent vacuum pump, is the way I make a separate platen for each mold that has small vacuum holes only where needed. Unlike a "peg board" design. It allows the pull around the mold to initiate faster. I also lower the heat source and continue to heat the plastic while it is over the mold to get the sharp crisp details.


I think just for the fun of the quest it is time to rethink this, even though what I am doing obviously works, and start using a vacuum pump on this new machine.

cocobear

My Feedback: (2)

It's all made of wood and the element needs to be installes and thus would be easy to customise.

jack steward350

My Feedback: (7)

Yeah the design is a good one! thanks for pointing me in that direction.

TomCrump

Thanks, Dave.

I started with 3 views and had them blown up to 1/5 scale. I filled in the lines with model airplane parts. This is my first scratch build. It was fun to learn how to do new things.. I had to learn the engine turning process, and then how to work the metal. This is also my first time to spray with auto enamel.

The whole process was enjoyable, and I'll go this route again.

jack steward350

My Feedback: (7)

I thought I would offer some info on heating elements and the design I was thinking of. As most of us do, if not all, I drew up sketches which I was going to post. In searching I found several machines of almost identical design and one with a clever way to bring power down from the heating element with out fowling the plastic forming frame. You'll see it.


These are some of the latest industry standards in heating elements. What I am looking for will work and is probably what powers the heat in these machines. The photos are of a quartz composite heater block. These are arranged like tile into sizes as big as? I don't know...a small school bus? Bigger? The white one has a quartz face and an element just behind it. Both have types that can be powered with house current. I didn't want to know the cost but I would love to have two of them.

jack steward350

My Feedback: (7)

This is a photo of the former I made for just the labor. Some times I cover previous vac holes with aluminum tape and drill new ones when I change molds. After a while the whole platen needs replaced. I have probably made 100 or more parts on this machine over the last 10 plus years. The M1 is a model I am helping a first time builder put together. Makes for a crowded house.

With any luck and designing a machine that different sized sheets of plastic can be formed on I can donate this as an auction item at a fly in....with out shop vac.

Hillbilly Vacuum Former.

jack steward350

My Feedback: (7)

That was a very informative site and a good design. The information that I gleaned in general was great. The heating element is perfect for a bottom type heater and was designed specifically for that application. It won't work in the type of machine I will be making.......as you can see my old abomination of an archaic apparatus is mostly made of wood, complete with water stains from when I left it on the floor and an epic down pour caused a mild flood.