Sculpting a 1/3 Full Body Civilian Pilot
03-01-2015, 07:10 AM
#26
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Missouri
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Anthony,
Does the tooling casting resin stick to the set tooling resin ? Mold release ?
And does the body casting resin stick to the set body cast resin?
If it doesn't do you have a way to do rotational molding ? Or can you pore manually rotate pore out excess then repeat ?
Curious minds.
And thanks for the demo
Kevin
Does the tooling casting resin stick to the set tooling resin ? Mold release ?
And does the body casting resin stick to the set body cast resin?
If it doesn't do you have a way to do rotational molding ? Or can you pore manually rotate pore out excess then repeat ?
Curious minds.
And thanks for the demo
Kevin
03-01-2015, 07:33 AM
#27
Thread Starter
Kevin,
I am learning as I go. The casting resin is not supposed to need release agent but can be used. The casting rubber I will be using is only supposed to stick to itself. I am going to use the release agent just to be sure the 1st time and will perform a test without.
The casting rubber I will be using has a 6 minute work time. You cannot do layered pours as it will not stick to itself after curing. Also the expense of the rubber is also a consideration. The Gel-10 rubber I will be using is $130 for an 8 lb kit which in my estimation will only do approx. 8-10 pilots. This will be after the learning curve. I will probably be lucky to get 2-3 usable pilots after trial and error. I will have to work up a measurement for each mold to assure a consistent cast each time.
If this works out and right now that is a big if we will offer pilots. If you have tried looking for a 1/3 scale civilian pilot they hard to come by and the ones that are available are very expensive. I am trying to keep the cost between $100-$150 which I think is very reasonable for one this size.
BTW: Anyone interested in going this path of making their own pilots. I have $700 invested so far and looks like I need to order another $250 in mold making rubber to complete all the molds. This is about double what I originally thought it would cost me to complete. Not to mention the countless hours spent on the sculpture itself. If this fails it will be a disaster.
Later!!
Anthony
I am learning as I go. The casting resin is not supposed to need release agent but can be used. The casting rubber I will be using is only supposed to stick to itself. I am going to use the release agent just to be sure the 1st time and will perform a test without.
The casting rubber I will be using has a 6 minute work time. You cannot do layered pours as it will not stick to itself after curing. Also the expense of the rubber is also a consideration. The Gel-10 rubber I will be using is $130 for an 8 lb kit which in my estimation will only do approx. 8-10 pilots. This will be after the learning curve. I will probably be lucky to get 2-3 usable pilots after trial and error. I will have to work up a measurement for each mold to assure a consistent cast each time.
If this works out and right now that is a big if we will offer pilots. If you have tried looking for a 1/3 scale civilian pilot they hard to come by and the ones that are available are very expensive. I am trying to keep the cost between $100-$150 which I think is very reasonable for one this size.
BTW: Anyone interested in going this path of making their own pilots. I have $700 invested so far and looks like I need to order another $250 in mold making rubber to complete all the molds. This is about double what I originally thought it would cost me to complete. Not to mention the countless hours spent on the sculpture itself. If this fails it will be a disaster.
Later!!
Anthony
03-01-2015, 07:50 AM
#28
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Missouri
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Thanks for the detailed explanation.
I will be rooting for an outstanding success and many pilots sold to recover your R & D costs. Ouch.
The spoils in life go to the risk takers.
Go Anthony http://
I will be rooting for an outstanding success and many pilots sold to recover your R & D costs. Ouch.
The spoils in life go to the risk takers.
Go Anthony http://
Last edited by Melchizedek; 03-01-2015 at 07:53 AM.
03-02-2015, 03:31 PM
#29
Thread Starter
I de-molded the torso and head sculpture today.
I had a rough time removing the face portion but it finally released. Will use more mold release in the future. Next up was to make a plug to plug the tunnel for pouring in the rubber. This was accomplished by putting clay inside the mold and filling the tunnel with more rubber. The tunnel was sprayed with a good coat of mold release.
The tunnel and plug are shaped so it will be easy to get the orientation correct in a hurry. One side is rounded and the other a triangle. I should be able to try casting the first piece tomorrow. I want to make sure this is going to work before investing more $$$.
Here is a pic of the plug after being poured. I forgot to take pics of the molds.
Later!!
Anthony
I had a rough time removing the face portion but it finally released. Will use more mold release in the future. Next up was to make a plug to plug the tunnel for pouring in the rubber. This was accomplished by putting clay inside the mold and filling the tunnel with more rubber. The tunnel was sprayed with a good coat of mold release.
The tunnel and plug are shaped so it will be easy to get the orientation correct in a hurry. One side is rounded and the other a triangle. I should be able to try casting the first piece tomorrow. I want to make sure this is going to work before investing more $$$.
Here is a pic of the plug after being poured. I forgot to take pics of the molds.
Later!!
Anthony
03-02-2015, 06:36 PM
#30
Just thinking off the top of my head, instead of using clay in the middle, can you use foam and leave it in? If so, would that allow you to make the rubber thinner and save weight?
Looking good by the way. But you have almost a grand invested already??? YIKES!
Looking good by the way. But you have almost a grand invested already??? YIKES!
03-03-2015, 06:26 PM
#31
Thread Starter
Dave,
The clay was just to create a dam for the rubber stopper mold. The stopper came out great and the mold works.
I pulled the first test piece from the mold a little while ago. I achieved some mixed results. The distribution of the rubber was not very even. The front half had thicker rubber. Also once the remaining rubber in the cup set I stopped rotation the mold and set it down flat on the table sculpture face down. The back of the pilots torso collapsed against his chest.
I had used 8 oz of Gel-10 rubber and 2 oz of liquid silicone. I changed the mix to 10oz of Gel-10 rubber and 1 oz of liquid silicone. The rubber set slightly faster due to the reduction in liquid silicone. I slowed the rotation rate of the mold during the initial cure stage. I rotated the mold slowly until the remaining rubber in the mix cup would not flow. I also added additional flesh tone powder from what was used in the 1st test. I have to wait approx. 45 minutes to demold the cast.
Here are a few pics of the 1st test. As you can see I did get good detail in the face and the hair. I just need to figure out how to get an even cast of the proper thickness.
Later!
Anthony
The clay was just to create a dam for the rubber stopper mold. The stopper came out great and the mold works.
I pulled the first test piece from the mold a little while ago. I achieved some mixed results. The distribution of the rubber was not very even. The front half had thicker rubber. Also once the remaining rubber in the cup set I stopped rotation the mold and set it down flat on the table sculpture face down. The back of the pilots torso collapsed against his chest.
I had used 8 oz of Gel-10 rubber and 2 oz of liquid silicone. I changed the mix to 10oz of Gel-10 rubber and 1 oz of liquid silicone. The rubber set slightly faster due to the reduction in liquid silicone. I slowed the rotation rate of the mold during the initial cure stage. I rotated the mold slowly until the remaining rubber in the mix cup would not flow. I also added additional flesh tone powder from what was used in the 1st test. I have to wait approx. 45 minutes to demold the cast.
Here are a few pics of the 1st test. As you can see I did get good detail in the face and the hair. I just need to figure out how to get an even cast of the proper thickness.
Later!
Anthony
03-03-2015, 07:08 PM
#32
Thread Starter
Slightly better results with the 2nd cast.
No collapse this time but the cast is still uneven. I will make some changes and try again tomorrow evening.
No collapse this time but the cast is still uneven. I will make some changes and try again tomorrow evening.
03-04-2015, 04:40 PM
#33
Thread Starter
I tried a 3rd pull from the mold and no luck. The rubber I am using is just too soft for the job.
I will have to do a little more research and come up with a better product for the job. My wife is going to call one of the suppliers tomorrow and see if she can get some advice on which products should work best for our application. We will order a couple different products in small batches to see what achieves the best result.
Later!!
Anthony
I will have to do a little more research and come up with a better product for the job. My wife is going to call one of the suppliers tomorrow and see if she can get some advice on which products should work best for our application. We will order a couple different products in small batches to see what achieves the best result.
Later!!
Anthony
03-04-2015, 05:27 PM
#35
Thread Starter
Doing it by hand,
I will have to make a rotation mechanism but that is not the immediate issue. The last pull was pretty even on the thickness of the rubber but it is just too flimsy. The rubber has a shore hardness of 10, looks like I will need a hardness of 25-30.
I have a 1/3 scale pilot for my WACO that I purchased when I built the WACO. It is no longer available as the guy who molded them passed away. The pilot does not have as much fine detail and it is cast out of harder rubber. I can't find much information about casting hollow objects in rubber just plastic. Plastic would not be the ideal solution as the pilot needs to be somewhat flexible. A little trial and error and I will figure it out.
Later!!
Anthony
I will have to make a rotation mechanism but that is not the immediate issue. The last pull was pretty even on the thickness of the rubber but it is just too flimsy. The rubber has a shore hardness of 10, looks like I will need a hardness of 25-30.
I have a 1/3 scale pilot for my WACO that I purchased when I built the WACO. It is no longer available as the guy who molded them passed away. The pilot does not have as much fine detail and it is cast out of harder rubber. I can't find much information about casting hollow objects in rubber just plastic. Plastic would not be the ideal solution as the pilot needs to be somewhat flexible. A little trial and error and I will figure it out.
Later!!
Anthony
03-06-2015, 04:36 AM
#36
03-06-2015, 04:58 AM
#37
03-06-2015, 06:16 PM
#38
03-07-2015, 05:04 AM
#40
Thread Starter
Abu thanks for the links,
They used the stiffer rubber that I am looking at using. I also looked at the expandable foam as well. I believe with the thicker rubber the foam will not be necessary for collapse prevention. I only had one pull collapse and I believe that was from stopping the rotational process too early. I am going to order some of this rubber and give it a try.
The 1/3 scale molded pilot I do have was filled with fiber fill before assembly. This keeps the body filled out and prevents collapsing. The advantage of the fiber fill is that it keeps the pilot flexible as well.
If I was casing larger objects I would go with the brush on mold as well. With these smaller molds I believe the thicker poured molds I am using will hold up to longer production runs. I am getting very good detail out of my mold and no release issues as well. I believe with the harder rubber and maybe a little accelerator added in I will get the desired results I am looking for. I will get some rubber ordered this week and give it at try. If all goes well then I will continue with making the remaining molds.
Later!!
Anthony
They used the stiffer rubber that I am looking at using. I also looked at the expandable foam as well. I believe with the thicker rubber the foam will not be necessary for collapse prevention. I only had one pull collapse and I believe that was from stopping the rotational process too early. I am going to order some of this rubber and give it a try.
The 1/3 scale molded pilot I do have was filled with fiber fill before assembly. This keeps the body filled out and prevents collapsing. The advantage of the fiber fill is that it keeps the pilot flexible as well.
If I was casing larger objects I would go with the brush on mold as well. With these smaller molds I believe the thicker poured molds I am using will hold up to longer production runs. I am getting very good detail out of my mold and no release issues as well. I believe with the harder rubber and maybe a little accelerator added in I will get the desired results I am looking for. I will get some rubber ordered this week and give it at try. If all goes well then I will continue with making the remaining molds.
Later!!
Anthony
