mike31

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Need a VK Sopwith Camel or Nieuport 17 Kit. NIB. I have one of each to sell if you are interested.
Mike31

abufletcher

Perhaps my dislike of BUSA kits stems from the fact that their eindecker kit (my first experience with a WWI kit) is particularly "bash-resistance." Their design uses a slab-sided fuselage that is both too short and too wide (and curved in the wrong way). Many builders replace the slab sides with a more traditional longerons+uprights "derrick" construction in the rear.But then there is the construction, placement and method of attachment of the one-piece wing. The wing is in the wrong scale location. Fixing THAT requires rebuilding the entire forward fuselage. Oh, and the firewall/cowl diameter is also far too narrow. So anyone who wants a scale EIII will pretty much need to throw out the entire kit fuselage. Oh, and while we're at it, let's throw out the kit's faked "comma" rudder which has been turned into a traditional vertical fin (mounted on the misshapen fuselage) and a hinged rudder. Then, there's the "slot" in the fuselage for the stabilizer portion of what really should be a full-flying elevator. Undercarriage? The kit's version is just a bunch of too wide and too low wires. Finally, we have that ridiculously (for an EIII) fat, cantilever wing with the silly looking wingtips (and of course the ailerons).

In short, the only way to "mod" the eindecker kit is to toss it and start from scratch.

TFF

BUSA sells sport planes that look like WW1 planes. 90% of people if given the choice between a BUSA and a Mick Reeves kit will take the BUSA. The Reeves will seem too impossible to make. Tab A into slot B is what most people want. Cant fault BUSA for going after that part of the market. WW1 has been a scratch builders world and still is in a lot of ways.

abufletcher

There is no reason that a scale model can't also be a "easy build." Just look at the Aerodrome RC Fokker EIII 66" EZ Build.

TFF

The Aerodrome plane exists because of the BUSA one. Hard to equate something designed 30 years ago vs recent, like George Lucas revisionist editing. More funny how it still gets press.

abufletcher

Yeah, I know what you mean. And I agree that many (most?) of the BUSA designs are 30 years out of date. I suppose it would be too expensive to "retool" and create some "Mark II" versions of the BUSA kits, though I think they would be very well received.

vertical grimmace

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Well, it depends on which BUSA kit you are talking about, but the majority of the the WW1 models are relatively new. The 1/4 pup and DR1 came out around 2003. And those were the first of the 1/4 scale line. I remember getting a triplane kit very soon after they came out.
The thing of it is, BUSA is doing quite well, and are still releasing new kits. Does not look like they are going away any time soon. On the other hand, GTM has dropped his entire line. So it goes to show you where offering very scale kits gets you as a business.

BobH

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Glen had been producing kits for a long time until recently. Unlike BUSA kiss kit business was always a second job. People still want his kits, make no mistake about it. Maybe he'll return to it some day?
There is always scratch building off of replicraft plans if you want super scale. And don't forget Proctor!

abufletcher

I'm not talking about super scale...just simple 1/6 scale models with scale outlines.

Here's the real question at the heart of the matter: Does a model have to be "designed" at all? I mean, the aircraft was already "designed" once (back in WWI); can't we just leave it at that? Can't we just follow the original on all basic issues of aerodynamics? It is my personal opinion that a model with a completely scale shape will have flight characteristics very similar to the original. (I'm not convinced by arguments about the importance of "Reynolds numbers.")

BTW, I just did a quick google search for images of DrI model plans and it's just ridiculous. The outlines are all over the place. It's like the "designers" were just sketching the darn thing freehand from some hazy childhood memory ("I remember it was red and it had three wings and some crosses on it"). I can sort of accept "purposeful changes" but the vast majority of "deviations and distortions" that I saw in these plans seem to stem from plain old ignorance.

BobH

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Well Don 1/6 WWI planes are kind of small now adays. That's one of the problems. Any plane can be given a scale outline with out a lot of extra work. But you know that

vertical grimmace

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Also, especially in that size (when scale) some of the designs get really squirrely. Have you ever had a Fokker DR 1 to fly regularly? I have had 3 and currently have 1. They are a beast at times. I am told the 1/3rd scale handle great. That is why you almost always see the nose lengthened and the landing gear changed. Even with the lighter loaded WW1 models, Reynolds numbers do come into play. The airplanes were designed to fly in the scale that they were, full. They were not designed to fly at 1/6th the size. Hence the changes.

Scale is a pursuit that is personal. You have to go as far as you need to, to satisfy yourself ( or your documents for competition). If you expect a manufacturer to just offer exact scale, you will most certainly be disappointed. I am in the final throws of my latest scale creation. I built it from plans. The outline is very scale, and matches my outline perfectly. But I had to do all of the work to make it look like the real aircraft.

I know we always end up talking about BUSA, mainly because they are the most popular manufacturer. But they are a great starting point. It is very easy to modify them to be very scale if you are so inclined.

My 1/5th Andersen TA 152. About to shoot paint, after a few rivets are added.

BobH

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Vert, well said.
Man that 152 sure has some wing to it!

abufletcher

That may be true of a 1/6 scale DrI, but a 1/6 scale 2-seater can have a wingspan over 2 meters. And VG, while I don't have any personal experience with "large models" (such as a 1/3 scale WWI fighter), I'll except the word of others who have flown them that they fly easier (and in a more scale fashion) than small models. They are just entirely out of my price range however...even to scratch-build.

I disagree about the BUSA (or Flair for that matter) kits being easy to modify to scale outlines. Sure it can be done, but you spend so much time and energy doing it that you might as well have started from scratch. Again, a few of the larger scale offerings do seem better. One future project for me is to build a 1/5 scale Pup from the plans created by Dave Boddington. His plans precisely reproduce all of the scale outlines of the 1/5 Replicraft drawings (with Jim Kiger's blessings) but use traditional model construction (for example balsa core rudder and elevator). Honestly, I'm not that excited about the Pup, but it's just such a great looking plan I've got to build it.

I suppose there are enough accurate plans out there that I should just stop complaining about inaccurate kits.

FireBee

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Jim, Your N-28 flew fantastic. I so want a big one. But then, I totally fell in love with the SSW you flew. That is another reason my Fokker EV.ended up with a blue fuse/white cowl. so now the SSW will come first. I have downloaded 1/2 the pics from your build thread.

see Jim's SSW. Looks likes a Bulldog with wings and that funky shaped rudder is so different.

abufletcher

Beautiful model of a beautifully funky aircraft!

FireBee

My Feedback: (34)

Vertical, Love the Anderson TA -152. Again a unique and challenging airplane. Someday, that will be tackled too.

Abu, you 1/6 scale are great and I too figure that if the real one flew the our models should. But today we have so much better electronics that we can go 100% scale outline. 30 years ago when "Kraft was King". Many "edits of 10% rudder and stab was the norm.


BobH, how's you plane coming? I check in on your thread.

FireBee

My Feedback: (34)

It struck me as big radial, just like the first time I ever saw a Corsair or probably more like the FW-190: Just serious business and don't mess with me!

I sure wish I could do the Snipe like yours in 1/5? Problem is the kits no longer avail. Luckily, some flying friends are tackling it in 1/3 scale. Again the cowl just struck a chord on the cool factor.

FireBee

My Feedback: (34)

Abu, have you been on RCSB and seen the 1/3 Sopwith tripe build by Dave Pipen? That is becoming an exact replica and amazing metal work on all the internal brackets and everything.

http://www.rcscalebuilder.com/forum/...TID=20766&PN=1

TFF

Expo and differential ailerons saved many a day. In the 80s almost no one would spend the money on two servos for ailerons.

BobH

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FireB. Yes I've been admiring his work on the tripe. Really great work! I'm jealous! lol
I just made the pullies to simulate the cable controls in the wings. Now I need to make the brackets they attach to.. I turned them out of Alu.. not to hard just a little time consuming

abufletcher

It's been quite some time since I visited RCSB. I feel strangely guilty for not posting any progress (at all) on my own builds. But, yes, I did look in on the early stages of Dave Pipen's Tripe. Awe-inspiring and depressing all at the same time. To be completely honest, I don't think I have the skills, resources, or even desire to work at that level.

I suspect that the great majority of BUSA kits are sold to RC flyers who just want to "dip a toe" into the WWI waters with a fun-scale model that's easy to build and fun ("easy") to fly. Most probably don't care at all about any scale discrepancies. One time a guy at my field pointed to my scaled-out SE5a and said: "That's one of those biplanes, right?"

vertical grimmace

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Yah Don, my TA 152 will get called a Messerschmitt regularly I am sure.

abufletcher

"I've always wanted to have one of them German planes with them crosses."

vertical grimmace

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Someone will ask me where I got the ARF as well. : )

Interesting, the last time I was at the flying field, a couple of weeks ago, a fellow club member asked me if I would put an ARF together for him, since I build so much. He wanted this plane for a big warbird meet we have every summer in September. I do not have enough time to finish all of my personal projects, let alone take on anyone elses, so I declined. The more I thought about it though, if you wanna play, you gotta pay. That is how I feel. If you want a great model that stands out, you need to build it yourself. I am not sure I could ever get properly compensated for my time anyway. It is kind of shame that the majority of the planes at my club now are small electric foamies.

FireBee

My Feedback: (34)

Vert,
Same with an old .40 size FW-190 I had. Many bystanders at the field said: cool a Messerschmitt.
I figure just because it had German Markings.

Im watching your TA-152 build. When you are all done and tired of flying that beauty, my Dad still lives in Pueblo and I can have him come pick it up. Good luck on the maiden.