DOT registration impact on scale modeling.
10-24-2015, 07:41 AM
#1
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DOT registration impact on scale modeling.
Hi,
I am curious if anyone in the scale modeling community has any thoughts on the impact the DOT registration requirement might have on our part of the hobby. http://www.regulations.gov/#!documen...2015-4378-0001
It is not clear if there will be a requirement to display a registration number on the outside of the airplane or not. I would prefer this to not be the case for obvious reasons. I sent a comment to the AMA stating my opposition to requiring non scale markings on scale models as a part of this proposed rule. Anyone else do the same?
Regards,
Dave
I am curious if anyone in the scale modeling community has any thoughts on the impact the DOT registration requirement might have on our part of the hobby. http://www.regulations.gov/#!documen...2015-4378-0001
It is not clear if there will be a requirement to display a registration number on the outside of the airplane or not. I would prefer this to not be the case for obvious reasons. I sent a comment to the AMA stating my opposition to requiring non scale markings on scale models as a part of this proposed rule. Anyone else do the same?
Regards,
Dave
10-28-2015, 07:47 PM
#2
Hi Dave,
Right now it seems the AMA is trying to figure out allot of details really fast regarding this registration business. Otherwise I believe the AMA would have already made some announcement about registering our "Drones". I suspect the AMA is working to minimize the impact this may have on hobbyist verses the commercial/professional application of the current tech stuff . Hopefully it could be that some sort of registration number can be carried internally for scale models. Its just they (The AMA) have to figure out how to define what is scale model verses a sport model i.e. Gee Bee R-1 verses Gee Bee R-3. One actually existed while the other is a fantasy. What about profile models?
There are allot of things to determine and not very much time. Thanks to a few irresponsible individuals, the Federal 900 lbs. gorilla is going to be imposing new rules that nobody wanted and is going to be difficult to enforce. Like all federal over reactions, it will be awful and too much paperwork for anyone to deal with. Most likely there will be Fees imposed to cover the costs of the new registration program. You can guess what will happen to the fees in a few years too. The problem is the same people who caused this problem are going to ignore the rules anyway and will only make matters worse.
Time to get off the soap box I guess...
Carlos G
Right now it seems the AMA is trying to figure out allot of details really fast regarding this registration business. Otherwise I believe the AMA would have already made some announcement about registering our "Drones". I suspect the AMA is working to minimize the impact this may have on hobbyist verses the commercial/professional application of the current tech stuff . Hopefully it could be that some sort of registration number can be carried internally for scale models. Its just they (The AMA) have to figure out how to define what is scale model verses a sport model i.e. Gee Bee R-1 verses Gee Bee R-3. One actually existed while the other is a fantasy. What about profile models?
There are allot of things to determine and not very much time. Thanks to a few irresponsible individuals, the Federal 900 lbs. gorilla is going to be imposing new rules that nobody wanted and is going to be difficult to enforce. Like all federal over reactions, it will be awful and too much paperwork for anyone to deal with. Most likely there will be Fees imposed to cover the costs of the new registration program. You can guess what will happen to the fees in a few years too. The problem is the same people who caused this problem are going to ignore the rules anyway and will only make matters worse.
Time to get off the soap box I guess...
Carlos G
10-29-2015, 05:24 AM
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Thanks for the reply. Judging by the general lack of response to my post I think most of us scale builders are just waiting to see what happens. Hoping for the best but expecting the worst. I and I think most others agree with your assessment that a few cavalier people have brought the wrath of the empire down upon us. I also wonder how many AMA members know about what is going with regard to registration. I expected a much greater reaction from the members than I have seen. The regulations.gov site only shows 61 responses. I have not had an email from AMA asking me to comment on the regulation either. Maybe it is because they dont have a recommended response yet.
I would really like to not have to put registration numbers on any of my airplanes.
I would really like to not have to put registration numbers on any of my airplanes.
10-29-2015, 05:56 AM
#4
I just wish quadcopters had never happened at all. Or that we airplane flyers could just completely disassociate ourselves from the "drone" flyers. Personally, I would be thrilled to see all "copters" of any sort disappear from the skies.
10-29-2015, 09:56 AM
#5
What I am leaning toward is requiring anyone flying being required to have a card that shows they have had instruction on the rules of the skies. That would remove the question on whether they are just violating the law or are uninformed
10-29-2015, 02:44 PM
#6
When you get your e mail from the AMA asking you to register a comment you'd better do so if you want to be heard. There had only been 470 comments when I got mine today and sent a comment in. You can wait and see and get what you get or you can become part of the process and stand up for what's right.
Doc
Doc
10-29-2015, 05:33 PM
#7
I know you're right on this. In fact, I'm often amazing that my club-mates (in a heli-dominated club) spend most of their time hovering a few feet in front of them. To me that seems about as exciting as watching the oven. So, I guess I should make a distinction between model airplanes, model helicopters, non-FPV multicopters, and FPV vehicles of any type. My perhaps outdated view is that RC flying should be harshly restricted ONLY to official RC flying fields by certified members of a valid RC flying club.
10-29-2015, 08:34 PM
#8
...So, I guess I should make a distinction between model airplanes, model helicopters, non-FPV multicopters, and FPV vehicles of any type. My perhaps outdated view is that RC flying should be harshly restricted ONLY to official RC flying fields by certified members of a valid RC flying club.
Good luck with that argument.
10-30-2015, 03:44 AM
#9
Hi Dave,
Right now it seems the AMA is trying to figure out allot of details really fast regarding this registration business. Otherwise I believe the AMA would have already made some announcement about registering our "Drones". I suspect the AMA is working to minimize the impact this may have on hobbyist verses the commercial/professional application of the current tech stuff . Hopefully it could be that some sort of registration number can be carried internally for scale models. Its just they (The AMA) have to figure out how to define what is scale model verses a sport model i.e. Gee Bee R-1 verses Gee Bee R-3. One actually existed while the other is a fantasy. What about profile models?
There are allot of things to determine and not very much time. Thanks to a few irresponsible individuals, the Federal 900 lbs. gorilla is going to be imposing new rules that nobody wanted and is going to be difficult to enforce. Like all federal over reactions, it will be awful and too much paperwork for anyone to deal with. Most likely there will be Fees imposed to cover the costs of the new registration program. You can guess what will happen to the fees in a few years too. The problem is the same people who caused this problem are going to ignore the rules anyway and will only make matters worse.
Time to get off the soap box I guess...
Carlos G
Right now it seems the AMA is trying to figure out allot of details really fast regarding this registration business. Otherwise I believe the AMA would have already made some announcement about registering our "Drones". I suspect the AMA is working to minimize the impact this may have on hobbyist verses the commercial/professional application of the current tech stuff . Hopefully it could be that some sort of registration number can be carried internally for scale models. Its just they (The AMA) have to figure out how to define what is scale model verses a sport model i.e. Gee Bee R-1 verses Gee Bee R-3. One actually existed while the other is a fantasy. What about profile models?
There are allot of things to determine and not very much time. Thanks to a few irresponsible individuals, the Federal 900 lbs. gorilla is going to be imposing new rules that nobody wanted and is going to be difficult to enforce. Like all federal over reactions, it will be awful and too much paperwork for anyone to deal with. Most likely there will be Fees imposed to cover the costs of the new registration program. You can guess what will happen to the fees in a few years too. The problem is the same people who caused this problem are going to ignore the rules anyway and will only make matters worse.
Time to get off the soap box I guess...
Carlos G
I wouldn't want rego numbers visible on any of my planes. Scale or not.
And certainly wouldn't be happy if your suggestion came to pass.
Just sayin'
10-30-2015, 04:47 AM
#10
First, As I grow older and hopefully wiser, I am seeing our country has gone insane on so many levels. Second, I am not sure why members of RCU from other country's out side of the USA are arguing points that don't apply to them. AMA, as far as I know, is only here in the USA. Canada has their own version of AMA. FAA is also a USA government division. ICAO rules apply internationally. The only reason for any of you outside of the USA to be concerned, is if you are coming to an event here in the USA, like; Top Gun, Florida Jets, etc. I have flown in both with the international modelers. Most have a lot of money to travel here with their models, so the average modeler in the rest of the world, this subject truly doesn't concern them.
I fly scale jets and large scale prop planes. I think it is going to be totally a mess trying to register all models for hobby use. Heck, there are a LOT of models that don't even make it past the maiden!!! So, the Government wants to register planes that fly once? And, yes, I understand that one flight might cause damage or endanger someone. But, really, has become insanity. IMHO>
I fly scale jets and large scale prop planes. I think it is going to be totally a mess trying to register all models for hobby use. Heck, there are a LOT of models that don't even make it past the maiden!!! So, the Government wants to register planes that fly once? And, yes, I understand that one flight might cause damage or endanger someone. But, really, has become insanity. IMHO>
10-30-2015, 04:59 AM
#11
First, As I grow older and hopefully wiser, I am seeing our country has gone insane on so many levels. Second, I am not sure why members of RCU from other country's out side of the USA are arguing points that don't apply to them. AMA, as far as I know, is only here in the USA. Canada has their own version of AMA. FAA is also a USA government division. ICAO rules apply internationally. The only reason for any of you outside of the USA to be concerned, is if you are coming to an event here in the USA, like; Top Gun, Florida Jets, etc. I have flown in both with the international modelers. Most have a lot of money to travel here with their models, so the average modeler in the rest of the world, this subject truly doesn't concern them.
I fly scale jets and large scale prop planes. I think it is going to be totally a mess trying to register all models for hobby use. Heck, there are a LOT of models that don't even make it past the maiden!!! So, the Government wants to register planes that fly once? And, yes, I understand that one flight might cause damage or endanger someone. But, really, has become insanity. IMHO>
I fly scale jets and large scale prop planes. I think it is going to be totally a mess trying to register all models for hobby use. Heck, there are a LOT of models that don't even make it past the maiden!!! So, the Government wants to register planes that fly once? And, yes, I understand that one flight might cause damage or endanger someone. But, really, has become insanity. IMHO>
In a lot of cases, whatever happens in the US, for whatever reason, usually filters down to Aus.
Also being on a world wide public forum, it's open to one and all to comment.
10-30-2015, 05:20 AM
#12
The responsibility of being leaders of the so called "Free World". I get that! Just make sure you understand our systems(society and Governmental) for the arguments.
Just because the lead sheep jumps off of the cliff, doesn't mean you or your country should follow insanity!
Heck! Even the country that both of our original ancestors came from, regrets following us into a war that was strictly for the vengeance of the Father!!! No wonder young Bush isn't succeeding in the polls.
Last edited by RCFlyerDan; 10-30-2015 at 05:58 AM.
10-30-2015, 06:20 AM
#13
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All RC modelers used place their names somewhere on the inside of each of their airplanes/aircraft. I don't see why this would not be sufficient to identify the owner of an aircraft. I hope that registration will be restricted to those that operate large commercially viable drone aircraft.
10-30-2015, 06:26 AM
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When I logged into the AMA site yesterday there was a link that popped up to respond to the registration question/issue. I have not responded yet but plan to soon. I was hoping to here which direction this was heading.
10-30-2015, 06:39 AM
#16
The responsibility of being leaders of the so called "Free World". I get that! Just make sure you understand our systems(society and Governmental) for the arguments.
Just because the lead sheep jumps off of the cliff, doesn't mean you or your country should follow insanity!
Heck! Even the country that both of our original ancestors came from, regrets following us into a war that was strictly for the vengeance of the Father!!! No wonder young Bush isn't succeeding in the polls.
Just because the lead sheep jumps off of the cliff, doesn't mean you or your country should follow insanity!
Heck! Even the country that both of our original ancestors came from, regrets following us into a war that was strictly for the vengeance of the Father!!! No wonder young Bush isn't succeeding in the polls.
As for my country....... Well with the leadership we have, if they didn't follow someone else, they would most likely stuff it up completely. They are doing a pretty good job of that already.
10-30-2015, 06:45 AM
#17
All RC modelers used place their names somewhere on the inside of each of their airplanes/aircraft. I don't see why this would not be sufficient to identify the owner of an aircraft. I hope that registration will be restricted to those that operate large commercially viable drone aircraft.
No doubt we will be faced with the same situation before too long.
On a slight tangent, one of our large chain stores has just applied to be able to trial goods delivery by drone.
10-30-2015, 10:32 AM
#18
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Abufletcher,
"I just wish quadcopters had never happened at all. Or that we airplane flyers could just completely disassociate ourselves from the "drone" flyers. Personally, I would be thrilled to see all "copters" of any sort disappear from the skies."
Interesting you would mention the above statement, I wrote the AMA many months ago stating almost verbatim what you stated and got the brush off. So now we are where we are.
I believe it is time for all AMA members to take a stand either FOR or AGAINST the multi rotor drones and let the AMA know in no uncertain terms how we feel.
"I just wish quadcopters had never happened at all. Or that we airplane flyers could just completely disassociate ourselves from the "drone" flyers. Personally, I would be thrilled to see all "copters" of any sort disappear from the skies."
Interesting you would mention the above statement, I wrote the AMA many months ago stating almost verbatim what you stated and got the brush off. So now we are where we are.
I believe it is time for all AMA members to take a stand either FOR or AGAINST the multi rotor drones and let the AMA know in no uncertain terms how we feel.
10-30-2015, 03:18 PM
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Abufletcher,
"I just wish quadcopters had never happened at all. Or that we airplane flyers could just completely disassociate ourselves from the "drone" flyers. Personally, I would be thrilled to see all "copters" of any sort disappear from the skies."
Interesting you would mention the above statement, I wrote the AMA many months ago stating almost verbatim what you stated and got the brush off. So now we are where we are.
I believe it is time for all AMA members to take a stand either FOR or AGAINST the multi rotor drones and let the AMA know in no uncertain terms how we feel.
"I just wish quadcopters had never happened at all. Or that we airplane flyers could just completely disassociate ourselves from the "drone" flyers. Personally, I would be thrilled to see all "copters" of any sort disappear from the skies."
Interesting you would mention the above statement, I wrote the AMA many months ago stating almost verbatim what you stated and got the brush off. So now we are where we are.
I believe it is time for all AMA members to take a stand either FOR or AGAINST the multi rotor drones and let the AMA know in no uncertain terms how we feel.
I knew when the park fliers popped up and now the drones , they re irresponsible pilots , AMA needs to get away from the dronesand park fliers
10-30-2015, 03:23 PM
#20
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These drones have been nothing but a problem since they arrived, I just wished the AMA would not have put them with us, if only they had put distance between us rc pilots and the drone guys I know things would have been different now! AMA you screwed up big time on this one!
10-30-2015, 05:42 PM
#24
Is an airplane a quadcopter? Of course not. There are differences between these aircraft, and they should be treated as such.
Is there a difference between an aircraft which is controlled thru video or from line of site? Of course there is. My point is that the AMA has not done a good job of defining the differences. So now all of these aircraft, that clearly are different are being lumped together and are going to have to play by the same rules. Which is not fair. It is not fair to the aircraft that do not have the same capabilities of the other. The other being the ones that have created the media attention. Does the general public know the difference? Of course not. Does someone have a responsibility to educate them? Well, it would be nice if the AMA were trying to do something. The issue seems to be getting to complicated to explain to the general public, so we are all facing the same rules. Weather we need them or not.
I have been building scale models now close to 10 years. But just this last summer I began flying control line again. It sure has been exhilarating. If RC gets too restrictive, I will just "move up" to CL again. I will fly scale with the likes of Dave Platt. He seemed to have seen the writing on the wall of RC years ago.
Is there a difference between an aircraft which is controlled thru video or from line of site? Of course there is. My point is that the AMA has not done a good job of defining the differences. So now all of these aircraft, that clearly are different are being lumped together and are going to have to play by the same rules. Which is not fair. It is not fair to the aircraft that do not have the same capabilities of the other. The other being the ones that have created the media attention. Does the general public know the difference? Of course not. Does someone have a responsibility to educate them? Well, it would be nice if the AMA were trying to do something. The issue seems to be getting to complicated to explain to the general public, so we are all facing the same rules. Weather we need them or not.
I have been building scale models now close to 10 years. But just this last summer I began flying control line again. It sure has been exhilarating. If RC gets too restrictive, I will just "move up" to CL again. I will fly scale with the likes of Dave Platt. He seemed to have seen the writing on the wall of RC years ago.
10-30-2015, 06:25 PM
#25
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Is an airplane a quadcopter? Of course not. There are differences between these aircraft, and they should be treated as such.
Is there a difference between an aircraft which is controlled thru video or from line of site? Of course there is. My point is that the AMA has not done a good job of defining the differences. So now all of these aircraft, that clearly are different are being lumped together and are going to have to play by the same rules. Which is not fair. It is not fair to the aircraft that do not have the same capabilities of the other. The other being the ones that have created the media attention. Does the general public know the difference? Of course not. Does someone have a responsibility to educate them? Well, it would be nice if the AMA were trying to do something. The issue seems to be getting to complicated to explain to the general public, so we are all facing the same rules. Weather we need them or not.
I have been building scale models now close to 10 years. But just this last summer I began flying control line again. It sure has been exhilarating. If RC gets too restrictive, I will just "move up" to CL again. I will fly scale with the likes of Dave Platt. He seemed to have seen the writing on the wall of RC years ago.
Is there a difference between an aircraft which is controlled thru video or from line of site? Of course there is. My point is that the AMA has not done a good job of defining the differences. So now all of these aircraft, that clearly are different are being lumped together and are going to have to play by the same rules. Which is not fair. It is not fair to the aircraft that do not have the same capabilities of the other. The other being the ones that have created the media attention. Does the general public know the difference? Of course not. Does someone have a responsibility to educate them? Well, it would be nice if the AMA were trying to do something. The issue seems to be getting to complicated to explain to the general public, so we are all facing the same rules. Weather we need them or not.
I have been building scale models now close to 10 years. But just this last summer I began flying control line again. It sure has been exhilarating. If RC gets too restrictive, I will just "move up" to CL again. I will fly scale with the likes of Dave Platt. He seemed to have seen the writing on the wall of RC years ago.
You sure about that? If only everything was so easy to define, so black and white, so definitive. How exactly should the AMA treat this type of aircraft?
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Last edited by porcia83; 10-30-2015 at 06:28 PM.