Register

If this is your first visit, please click the Sign Up now button to begin the process of creating your account so you can begin posting on our forums! The Sign Up process will only take up about a minute of two of your time.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36

  1. #1

    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Rockville, MD
    Posts
    229
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    I covered my 1/4 scale Cub with white Supercoverite fabric covering. Although my friends said to use Solartex, I used what the LHS had in stock. The covering job on the fuselage looked quite nice. No wrinkles, neat seems and reasonably tight. The prepainted white also looks nice and appears like it should only require a light coat of paint to get good coverage.

    Since this is an L-4 Cub I thought I would use Supercoverite spray-can paint in Olive Drab. It should be easy. It is a flat paint and does not need to be ultra consistent looking since it's an olive drab warbird paint job. And even though I am using a gas engine the fuel proof paint should give me a tough durable finish. As a bonus, both products are made by the same company.

    I put the paint on in two light coats, 24 hours between each. The coverage was great. The finished product looked better than I thought it would. It was very consistent looking on the fabric and prepared wood of the fuselage including my Evergreen plastic "simulated sheetmetal" cowling in front of the windshield area.

    At that point I moved on to building and fiberglassing a wing for another project and put the Cub on a stand in the corner. Keep in mind I have a climate controlled workshop. The temperature stays between 65 and 75 degrees at all times. I came back 2 months later to finish the Cub. I was more than a little surprised to find that the entire paint job on the Cub was checked and crazed! Every surface is ruined. Is the Coverite fabric and the Coverite paint incompatible?

    To say I am disappointed is an understatement. The airplane will have to be stripped and recovered. The Evergreen plastic will have to be removed which will likely destroy the wood sheeting under it. While the cost is only $50 in material it is about 50 hours in labor. Can anybody tell me what went wrong here? Is the manufacturer to blame? Can their products really be that crappy and incompatible?
    Chuck

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Wilson, NC
    Posts
    1,179
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    Have you contacted Coverite about this? There may be some differences that caused this.
    Was it the 21st Century fabric that you painted? It is already painted and may use a different type of paint that allows one to use an iron without ruining the finish. It may have had to be prep'd before painting. Cleaned with alcohol or acetone, maybe. Coverite should be able answer this.
    When you recover, use the plain Super Coverite that's unfinished. I've used that to good success a few times. I think you'll like it as well.
    You could also try Sig Koverall. A little more effort but very nice stuff.
    Good luck !!!

  3. #3
    Ernest-T's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Posts
    169
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    I've used Supercoverite on many projects, but I have not tried Coverite paint. I always prep the surface with either Primex (which I can't find any more) or thinned nitrate clear dope. I believe that the instructions that come with the Supercoverite recommend this so that paint will stick to the surface. I don't know whether this could have helped prevent the cracking with the Coverite paint or not. A friend of mine once told me something about the way certain fabrics are weaved that can prevent the paint from sticking unless the weave is sealed first with the dope. In the past I've always used 2 part epoxy paints over Supercoverite with good success, but may try latex for my next project.
    Martin
    AMA: 240487
    ______________________________

    \"I don\'t chew my cabbage twice\"

  4. #4
    Tmoth4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Brecksville, OH
    Posts
    2,124
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    If it was the prepainted Coverite and not the plain, unpainted stuff that's probably the problem. Still, the Coverite spray paint should have been compatable with their own covering even if it's the prepainted stuff. I would complain to Coverite. It's a shame you have to redo your covering job. What a pain!! ...and expensive too!!

    Jim
    Model Airplane Hoarder

  5. #5
    x-craft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Kingsley, MI
    Posts
    377
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    I'd really like to know if any answers are found to this question. I built a super cub, covered it in white 21st century fabric and painted red trim. At first everything looked great, a short time later, within a couple months all of the red paint had cracked-Badly! The cowl was fine, the only place I had problems was on the fabric itself. Needless to say, I to was extremly disappointed. So much so I hardly fly this plane.
    And then I heard that sickening crunch. Now I have room for another one :-)

  6. #6
    Helijack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Washougal, WA
    Posts
    296
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    Very interesting. I covered a Jenny with SuperCoverite, unpainted, last summer. MY basement has major temp swings and we get feet of rain in the winter. My trim and finish on that model was an automotive paint and clear coat. No issues with cracking, sagging, coming loose, or anything else. Just to add that to the pot of WHY?
    Remember out Veterans, and thank them.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Arlington, TX
    Posts
    1,467
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    Checking or crazing in the Super Coverite 21st century paints is a problem that they apparently have never solved. I used their Cream and Maroon paint in the early 90s an experienced the problem that you described.
    The Maroon also appeared to be only partially fuel proof as rubbing alcohol would attack the color years after it was down anywhere on the airframe.
    After that I used the white pre-finished coverite on a Pilatus Porter and used their bright red paint for the markings and the cowl. The paint on the cowl seemed ok but the red crazed on the white prefinished material.

    I believe that the paint is the problem rather than the material as I have used several other paints on the Coverite with no real problem.
    Overall I do agree with your friend and prefer solartex.

    Also, if you look in my gallery you can see a range of airplanes that are painted with the exception of the CAP, the 35% Extra And the Rascal R. The finishes shown range from Auto paint to dope.
    Up elevator is not always your friend.

  8. #8
    x-craft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Kingsley, MI
    Posts
    377
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    Gremlin, my cub that I had trouble with is finished in 21st century pre colored white fabric and trim painted using dark red 21st century paint. Here is a pic of the problem for everybody to look at. I'm currently building a TF Stinson, I'm getting to the point of deciding what to finish with. I want to use 21st century fabric and paint since I've had good luck with color matches. Can you suggest another brand of paint that matches 21st century well enough? I have considered using super coverite and painting the entire airframe but I'd rather not.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Ca82567.jpg 
Views:	71 
Size:	31.3 KB 
ID:	406252  
    And then I heard that sickening crunch. Now I have room for another one :-)

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Arlington, TX
    Posts
    1,467
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    Looking at the picture that you posted It looks as though the paint may have been sprayed at too low a temperature and maybe too heavy a coat trapping solvents an causing it to attack the prefinished surface. My limited experience with 21st Century has been twofold, it is thin in pigment which means poor coverage per coat and below 65 or above 90 degrees F it doesn't work well.
    If you are using a gas engine in the Stinson then I would take a piece of the material and go to either my favorite auto paint supplier or to my Home Depot type store and get the paint mixed.
    I have yet to try the Nelson urethane paints but pricing aside they should be an excellent product. Also good old Dope from Brodack or one of the others will far out perform the 21st century paints.
    Past that, Krylon if the color match can be made or Rustoleum if they have the color.

    I have pretty much gone to full paint schemes so I am not up to speed on what really matches what in premixed colors.
    With the exception of Modelmaster spray paints, none of the hobby shop paint have ever been on par with the "non Aircraft" spray can paints.
    Up elevator is not always your friend.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Springfield, VA,
    Posts
    7,064
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    I would suggest that you may not have to recover the plane but remove the paint with either acetone or a similar product. It could be that Supercoverite in the spray can is Lacquer based paint. If that's what it is then it can lead to problems such as your under the right conditions. Try stripping the existing paint and then putting a few coats of White on for a base and then the OD.. You can use, Warbird colors, Nelson's paints, Klass kote or Latex paints. The water base paints will require fuel proofing with their clear. This isn't a problem and works well.. Good luck.
    BobH.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Arlington, TX
    Posts
    1,467
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    I would be cautious with the acetone for anything other than very localized removal. Too much of it will go right through the prefinish and attack the iron on adhesive causing it to de bond from the wood. On the other hand if you are contemplating stripping the whole thing then nothing would be lost by giving stripping a try.
    Be careful with all of the fire precautions both from the solvent quantity and ventilation plus very low humidity can cause static problems leading to a fire.
    Up elevator is not always your friend.

  12. #12
    x-craft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Kingsley, MI
    Posts
    377
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    At this point I have no intentions of refinishing this airplane but I don't want t screw up my Stinson. The conditions that I painted the red in are as follows. A heated garage on New years day 2 years ago. I let it set for a couple hours and put it in my truck and took it home. The only thing we could come up with was the temp difference from the garage to the truck and then back in my house. It was cold I remember but I don't know how cold. Also we considered that I may have sprayed it a little heavy. Possibly either one of these factors or both combined are considerations. I was hoping to find someone with this same problem to confirm my suspicions. Thanks to everyone for the advice. I have considered automotive paint but have made no firm decisions. What kind of prep work (if any) would you do for 21st century covering if using auto paint over it for trim work?
    And then I heard that sickening crunch. Now I have room for another one :-)

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Springfield, VA,
    Posts
    7,064
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    I would consider using a different covering. Maybe you could switch to Koverall, Super Coverite or Nelson's Lite fab. These materials can be primed and painted. I would suggest Nitrate dope as a good base. Several coats thinned 50/50 will work. Then use one of the paints I mentioned in my last post to paint with.
    Since it's a Stinson you can use Dope through out the entire process (that's how the Full Scale plane was finished). Or.. you could use Stits paints to finish the plane as well.
    You have MANY choices at your disposal.
    The most important thing to remember is not to mix to different types of paint until you KNOW that they are compatible.
    BobH.

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Arlington, TX
    Posts
    1,467
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    Make youself a couple of test panels that you can mask off. Try painting without priming the masked area. If it doesn't look right then try spraying a light coat of primer compatible with the paint you are using and then spray after the primer has set.
    Up elevator is not always your friend.

  15. #15
    x-craft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Kingsley, MI
    Posts
    377
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    Thanks to everybody for the advice. It will come in handy.
    And then I heard that sickening crunch. Now I have room for another one :-)

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Newark, CA
    Posts
    705
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    I have a ST 3000 powered G-Shark that I covered with 21 Century white covering. The trim was sprayed on using the old K&B Superpoxy. It atill looks great with no problem as you describe.
    BTW, the model was covered and painted in 1994.[8D]


    Wayne
    Airacobra Brotherhood #7

  17. #17
    BULL-RCU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    1,186
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    ORIGINAL: BobH

    I would consider using a different covering. Maybe you could switch to Koverall, Super Coverite or Nelson's Lite fab. These materials can be primed and painted. I would suggest Nitrate dope as a good base. Several coats thinned 50/50 will work. Then use one of the paints I mentioned in my last post to paint with.
    Since it's a Stinson you can use Dope through out the entire process (that's how the Full Scale plane was finished). Or.. you could use Stits paints to finish the plane as well.
    You have MANY choices at your disposal.
    The most important thing to remember is not to mix to different types of paint until you KNOW that they are compatible.


    I painted the trim on my WACO last winter with gloss Extirior house paint. The covering is Ultracoat not Fabric. It looked great and held up excellent. I am flying GAS an with Latex you do not need to fuel proof when running gas. Have any of you painted the Fabric with Latex? I'm building a 98" wing Lazy Ace Biplane I was going to cover in prepainted Cream fabric then paint with Latex. How does it cover with latex and hold?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Dy80556.jpg 
Views:	23 
Size:	15.6 KB 
ID:	406427   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mk26922.jpg 
Views:	33 
Size:	56.1 KB 
ID:	406428   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pk30333.jpg 
Views:	30 
Size:	53.4 KB 
ID:	406429  
    Visit my WEB Site www.nobullsales.com Check out my gallery!

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Springfield, VA,
    Posts
    7,064
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    Many have used latex for fabric to my knowledge without any more difficulty than normal paints. I have also heard of some issues with latex but I believe that's usually because it's not fully cured before it's masked off for trim colors.
    BobH.

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    newton, NC
    Posts
    5,437
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    I did some experimenting while repairing the wing on my DR-1. Initially, I had allowed the latex paint to cure for about 3 days before clearcoating it (latex interior house paint base colors with Top Flite LustreKote clear spray top coat), and had no compatability problems. When I painetd the repaired and newly recovered wing (natural color Solartex) I let the latex dry about 2 hours, and then clearcoated with the LustreKote---same result. My workshop is unheated except for a small space heater I use while in the shop, and this time of year it stays about 25 degrees warmer than whatever the outside temp is, so the temp fluctuation can be between 45 to about 65 degrees F. My finishes come out very smooth, no cracking, no peeling. I even took the cover that I removed from the damaged wing (also Solartex / latex paint / LustreKote ) and wadded it up, folded it, flattened it out, twisted it (like wringing water out of it) and still had no peeling or cracking of the finish.

    I noticed that after I had painted the Solartex , and then clearcoated, that the fabric seemed to have "relaxed" a little; not quite as tight as when I shrank it, but not sagging either. After about three weeks on the undamaged parts of the plane, the cover is drumhead tight. Now my repaired wing is about a week out, and it is tighter than it was right after I painted it.

    For your Cub, I hate the thought of you having to remove all that and start over. Have you tried just sanding the paint smooth, or are the cracks too deep?. I would be hesitant to try a solvent to remove the paint, as it may attack the prefinished surface as well as the underlying adhesive. If you do remove the cover and re-do it, I highly recommend Solartex with latex paint over it. I obviously got a good bond between paint and fabric, without using primer. I used a paint called American Traditions Signature, an acrlic latex made by Valspar, and available at Lowe's. It's the premium paint, costs about $10 /qt, and they can mix whatever color you want if you have a chip. They wouldn't mix less than a quart, but a pint will easily cover a 1/5 scale triplane. I used five colors, so I have enough left over to paint a whole squadron of planes. Lowe's will sell what they call a "sample" mixed to your desired color, for about $4, is about 1/2 pint, you might be able to get by with that.
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  20. #20
    BULL-RCU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    1,186
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    After applied is the solertex antique trasparent where the wood can be seen or is it like the cub yellow where you can't see through it? I wan't to cover the plane but not see the wood.
    Visit my WEB Site www.nobullsales.com Check out my gallery!

  21. #21

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    newton, NC
    Posts
    5,437
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?


    ORIGINAL: BULL-RCU

    After applied is the solertex antique trasparent where the wood can be seen or is it like the cub yellow where you can't see through it? I wan't to cover the plane but not see the wood.
    Bull- The natural Solartex is semi-transparent, when you cover the plane, you can see the wood, and the antique is slightly less transparent, but you can still see the wood. What color are you going for? Part of my DR-1 is covered in white, and you can't see through it. I used white everywhere there would be white showing (fuse and top wing, tail surfaces) and used the natural on the bottom and mid wing. Only reason I did it was the LHS didn't have enough white at the time to cover the whole plane.
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  22. #22
    BULL-RCU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    1,186
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    What I'm looking for is an older look in Cream. Then triming in a Burgendy with Latex paint. I just don't want the wood to show through the covering. I like the film for looks vs ultracoat on older planes, but I don't want to see the wood through the covering.
    Visit my WEB Site www.nobullsales.com Check out my gallery!

  23. #23

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    newton, NC
    Posts
    5,437
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?


    ORIGINAL: BULL-RCU

    What I'm looking for is an older look in Cream.
    Cream is also semitransparent, our LHS owner has a Taube covered in it hanging in his store. Great looking color for an early airplane. What are you going to cover that you don't want the framework to show? You may have to use natural or white and paint it.
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  24. #24

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Springfield, VA,
    Posts
    7,064
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    BILL. you will probably have to paint both colors on your plane to get the finish you are looking for. The good part is that the colors will match the colors you have in mind.
    BobH.

  25. #25
    BULL-RCU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    1,186
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Coverite paint and Coverite fabric covering, what went wrong?

    ORIGINAL: khodges


    ORIGINAL: BULL-RCU

    What I'm looking for is an older look in Cream.
    Cream is also semitransparent, our LHS owner has a Taube covered in it hanging in his store. Great looking color for an early airplane. What are you going to cover that you don't want the framework to show? You may have to use natural or white and paint it.
    I'm going to cover a 96" wing Lazy Ace Biplane. Here is a pic of one covered, but I think the guy used ultracoat. One just framed. Mine is in the rough frame stage right now and I want it to have a fabric look. The framework is not that pretty on these planes, so would rather have it not show. My orginal plan was to cover it in cream frabric and paint the trim in Burgendy. Thought it would make for a pretty plane.



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Lj23781.jpg 
Views:	41 
Size:	58.5 KB 
ID:	407560   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Dy78461.jpg 
Views:	33 
Size:	81.6 KB 
ID:	407561  
    Visit my WEB Site www.nobullsales.com Check out my gallery!


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:46 PM.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.