Bif

Mr.Scale i noted your constant defense of JSM.I am not in this for the money as you suggest and since you weren't privy to our conversation you might read your own defense, you seem to be pleased with them, lots of us are not.You i quote appear to have been saying they corrected the kit in 2002 postings of yours it has been along time and they dumped garbage on me and others .Do you think they should have offered another plane as stated or just renege on that?Do you really think i would not have been more than willing to share in the cost of an aircoupe?Your defense is not the least bit clear they shipped garbage and offered nothing to correct that would work you may need help understanding this and please while you are spewing support read my problem and see if you would take apart your partially built airpane to satisfy someone elses mistake.I was wondering if these two happy supporters were the owners hiding under the veil of another name instead of the owners discussing in an open forum.Negotiating didn't exist when you Renege period.As stated before i don't think i should pay for your mistakes and you still can show me you care just don't hide from the truth and pay for your mistakes as i would mine and defend yourself honorably in the pursuit of excellence."We Are The Customer '.Nice try at hiding come talk to Arthur me or any of the rest of us trying to make a go of this and other kit's.But don'yt put words out of context to your benefit read the truth you kit was a mess and respect don't defend trash.This forum is a positive way to shed light on a ongoing problem you are avoiding

Arthur_GA

My Feedback: (3)

I could NEVER compare JSM to GM. I never did. I created a situation to compare the absurdity between what GM would NEVER do to what JSM actually DOES.

By the way, Neil, Mr_Scale owns 50% of JSM.

As for me, these are the last words I'll direct to Mr_Scale. I'm wasting my time with JSM.

Future posts will only show the photos of the rebuild and the misfitting parts. A picture is worth 1000 words, right?

Enough said.

Bif

Having done a little further reading on your posts,i can see you are apparently one of the two partners .Would be nice to let me know, now you stand even more alone in defense of this.I personally think it is outragous and foolish of you to put in print the words "scamming me out of a kit",poor choice of litigious words and you will be held accountable in time for slander .I told you we could work this to an apprriate raesonable level BUT YOU ARE NOW SAYING I WANTED TO SCAM YOU OUT OF A KIT.take a moment and realize you are implying that i am committing a criminal act that you better be prepared to back off of immediately.Your heat betrays your ability to resolve this and further pushes me to seek restitution and in time a retraction of your scandalous remark. I sought out a solution that i could live with you got my money and you counter with pulling back because of a post.We are put in a position of just reporting our experience with out accusing you but rather stateing what you have not done,you can run but you can't hide.Nothing can be further from the truth then your inuendo of scam . The door closed by you not me when you said know other attention to the e mails attempt to resolve ,you said it not me .The door for suggestion was opened you climbed ran and dropped an impossible twist and i didn't ever hear a request for more money from you either just you get you what ever you want although you pulled away in the next sentense with i would rather not .You just for amoment if you would and read what you offered i just took you up on the words what ever would satisfy you.I do think you wish you did the right thing now and then i would retract this but if you continue to avoid the responsibilty and claim "small company that took my 200 and claims small company , send me my money and i will send you your kit prepaid by you to you and then customer service will be on top were it should be Otherwise it would seem your hiding behind being the owners and acting like supporters has backfired and we to didn't fall off the turnip truck ,let the buyers beware as they read the posts ,we all could have helped in this but your stubborn refusal still avoids doing anything .Until resolve of this occurs i will enjoy reading other kit builders ongoing posts of how they overcome this kits problems from Jack stafford Models

BOMBERGUY

My Feedback: (5)

Arthur & Neil,

First off, let me state that Mr_Scale, is indeed a 50% owner of JSM. I’m the other 50%.

Now let’s get in to it.

Quote From Arthur

I could NEVER compare JSM to GM. I never did. I created a situation to compare the absurdity between what GM would NEVER do to what JSM actually DOES

Another quote from Arthur

In the real world reputable businesses REPLACE or FIX the product, they do NOT offer to replace the defective PARTS IF THE CUSTOMER SHIPS THEM FIRST. OK, so you bought a brand new Chevy. The transmission gives up. GMC asks you to kindly submit the broken trans to them and they'll send you a new, revised one.

Arthur,

I sure hope you don't run a Chevy dealership? If you do, I'd like to buy a car from you (lets say a Neon) because the first time something goes wrong with it I'll just call you up and have you send me a replacement vehicle (and I get to keep the original one). Better yet you could send me a Vette and I would be happy with that as a replacement. Oh, let’s think about this first. The last time one of my new cars had a problem, I had to bring it (ship the part(s)) to the dealership in order to get it fixed and yes they kept the bad transmission.

Neil,

We have only owned the company since April of 2004 and did not start shipping kits until late summer of 2004. I don’t know where you got the idea that we have been sending defective kits since 2002? Maybe the old owners are at fault for posts that old!

All we are asking is that you send us the defective parts, airframe or even EVERTHING back to us at no cost to you and we would replace the parts needed or replace the kit with a new kit if you sent us everything back (or refund your money if you so choose). I don’t think that this request is unreasonable.

One last thought. I’ve been in the residential home building business for the last 15 years. I’ve had many a buyer try and get things fixed, that they themselves have damaged or otherwise screwed up, for free. I’ve always gone out to the home to take a look at the “problem” and if need be told the owner that it was their problem any not mine. If it was something that was “MY Problem”, I fixed it.

The ball is in your court right now. All we ask is that you meet us half way and this issue will be resolved.

Bomberguy,
The other half
www.JSModels.com

Bif

Your distust for your customers or me is apalling .I suggest you stop accusing me in a public forum of either scamming you or blaming my builder for building poorly .you have our money.You tried to hide your identity from us as a concerned supporter .Now i suggest no more blaming me or artur and think wether or not i should trust you.I can't send to you such a package of half built fuselage and wings .To much of a undertakeing .Yes i half heartedly hoped you would have refunded something or discounted the kit or another instead you chose the low road.I wanted the aircoupe from you but it wasn't the money until you went into denial about your problem not mine.You should seek alternative additional ways to work this out thru either my suggestions or others but this kit deserves to fly and Jack Stafford models and other kits from you do belong in Georgia.I am not interested in winning only equal winners work things out win win for us both.Remember you offered to do anything to satisfy your customer so you said.I am not asking that much but what alternatives do you offer,except things no one wants or can do.

Arthur_GA

My Feedback: (3)

To Mr Bomberguy.

Quoting you:

"I sure hope you don't run a Chevy dealership? If you do, I'd like to buy a car from you (lets say a Neon) because the first time something goes wrong with it I'll just call you up and have you send me a replacement vehicle (and I get to keep the original one)."


Sounds to me like a pre-planned scheme, huh?


Rest assured that I DO replace and/or refund for unacceptable merchandise in "my" business (not a GM dealership) promptly. That's the ONE AND ONLY way to run a successful business. I do not fly in circles around my customers like JSM does.

Neil, with all due respect, I'll leave it up to you to decide what to do. As for me (again) the deal is done with JSM. And of course the photos and comments will be posted as I feel appropriate.

Bif

I am thankful for your building ability Arthur and it still amazes me the way you apply your woodworking skills that are so diverse.I would recommend with visual proof your abilities both working with a great kit as well as our current problems with our Stafford kit.In the georgia area few would be able to compete with your abilities in building.I know many people know both of us and laugh at there attempts to belittle or reduce our credibility,that severly backfires in the public forums .I look forward to others who struggle with these kits to have you bail them out by sharing your expert advice.I will look forward to your displaying with honesty and openess what problems you have with the Jack Stafford model kit and know this, many who struggle will appreciate your candor and honesty.I should have realized that the negative information on this companys past might still be here today and you opened my eyes to the problem. IMPORTANT FOR EVERY ONE TO SEE Out of respect and wise business acumen Arthur did not charge me for overuns in many ours of labor and parts repurchase he said i made a deal with you based on my beliefs that the kit would be okay and what he dealt with was not the usual and customary kit.That my forum friends creates a friendship born out of a business relationship.Funny how he admired the Aircoupe as i did and now we are stuck .Thank you Arthur My respect to you and your honesty as well as your talents maybe if you would find the time show this forum what Arthur builds sands shapes in a wonderful astro hog you finished for me or the Fun aero albatross or the Quaker , or the Ben buckle sticks kit of Little Elph 60 inch Bipeplane,Of course your to modest to show your talents but i will to at least not allow any one to suggest you did any building wrong.For the record if Arthur created a mistake he has always alerted me to it and corrected it,the problem is it's like a scratch building project not a 200 dollar kit.Thank You Arthur for your support. There is still no movement from Stafford just blurbs now and then of what they might do but nothing moves unless we bend to there will and that is wrong.Remember this one "we didn't Say we wouldn't send any parts " The kit is poor and we never saw any parts just a story about what he didn't think we need so as of today Zero ,Zip ,Nada has arrived in the house for us ,oh well please continue with the truth as you attempt to build the kit.

Bif

Hey Arthur ,do you think these guys really would send me anything in trust,I wonder if they would.All we are asking is that you send us the defective parts, airframe or even EVERTHING back to us at no cost to you and we would replace the parts needed or replace the kit with a new kit if you sent us everything back (or refund your money if you so choose). I don’t think that this request is unreasonable. "and then there was this""These two guys were on a mission to scam JSM out of another kit. Note, that sending a Aircoupe instead of a Birddog would have been ok. Or Neil how about a B24 or a C120/140 or a Mooney or some other JSM kit absolutely free for a small kit manufacturer???? Give me a break!!!! My partner and I were not born yesterday. Arthur have you seen any kit or offers to actually state they will ship or have shipped,i haven't but the level of service to us i must be missing.Give me a break in your words ,today we still have your kit and you as a company haven't refunded any money nor replaced a kit as stated."Just wondering why you offer and can't seem to face your problem",i should think Jack Stafford Models would have gotten to the to solve there customers issue with some reasonable aggreement. As you told us all you are a home builder who responds in a perfect manner according to your past defensive post ,as a kit company you must elect to treat customer service issues differently.I will let everyone on the forum know when the refunds or rebates or some form of restitution shows up but for now thank you to all who also took the time in contacting me over this matter,i appreciate the support.

Arthur_GA

My Feedback: (3)

No, I don't think so. They should be in the Control-line business, as they like to fly in circles...