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  1. #76

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    RE: Peter Barth Waco

    executor,

    Can you post a couple of pictures of your inner wing flying wires, showing how you attach them to the wings? I'm trying to figure out the best way to install them without having to use screws and nuts. I'm thinking of using Dubro Safety Lock Kwik-Links. Any comments would be appreciated.

    http://www.shopatron.com/product/pro...d=DUB815/101.0


    Chuck
    WACO Brother #233

  2. #77
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    RE: Peter Barth Waco

    Well, as for the wires.... I've had in mind some of quick clips, but when i did approx. static calculation, the forces on one wire can easely excess 30 - 40 N (ca. 3 to 4 kilos of impulse force !!!). I wouldn't recommend using a plactic quick clips; maybe a metal one. As for attachements, there are two possibilities which comes in use for me:

    My WACO:

    Wires stay always attached on fuselage/center wing sections. Tighteners are on this section.
    Wing part of wire is attached to a strut mount via additional aluminium plate and with screws and bolts. I know i look silly doing my "indian dance" around plane everytime when mounting wings, ..., but so far construction holds perfectly.


    Other possibility for me was using a metal clips on both side of wire. But wing struts should be always attached with some safe and strong mount (screws ?!), so why not attaching a wire on wing section in a same time.

    Here is a concept drawing of my wiring system...

    Marko

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  3. #78

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    RE: Peter Barth Waco

    Marko,

    Thanks for the information, it is quite helpful, but I really would appreciate a picture of your attachment points.

    I installed the wings on mine today for the first time, it sure is a big airplane. Where did you locate the turn buckles for the upper wing center section? I found it very difficult to adjust the tension with the turn buckets inside the fuselage as the drawings show. I'm thinking of attaching them by the anchor point in the upper wing section.

    Chuck
    WACO Brother #233

  4. #79

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    RE: Peter Barth Waco

    The wing wires has to be considered as fully functional, the 3mm tightners provided with kit seems to be strong enough to me. My friend (Kris Knutsen), used the 4mm version for his 3rd scale Stearman, he recommends the same size for the 4th scale Waco. He also used nuts & bolts to attach the wires to the fuselage and wings. The mounting devices are developed and produced by himself, the original ones didn’t has the good looks of his own design. An β€œIndian dance” before flying is as annoying as necessary, just a part of flying large scale planes I guess. I wouldn’t trust the plastic, as well as the metal quicklinks very much.

    Grtz,

    Gerry

  5. #80

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    RE: Peter Barth Waco

    [img][/img]
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  6. #81

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    RE: Peter Barth Waco

    Marko,

    I went back through the pictures you posted, I missed the ones of your rigging wire attachments the first time. The pictures answer all my questions. I hope she is still flying well.

    Thanks,
    Chuck
    WACO Brother #233

  7. #82
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    RE: Peter Barth Waco

    Sorry Chuck for no reply... I was on airfield whole weekend. I'm going to do some close up pics today and post them...


    Marko

  8. #83

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    RE: Peter Barth Waco

    Marko,

    Could you look at the attached pictures, the lower aileron will only deflect 20 degrees down whereas the upper aileron will move 30 degrees. In the up position they both exceed 45 degrees. In the down position, the upper aileron is resting against the trailing edge of the wing, and the lower aileron still has a gap. Without the upper aileron attached, the lower aileron will easily get to 30 degrees. From your pictures, your ailerons look to move equally in the down position. Can you give me some suggestions to corrects this.

    Chuck
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    WACO Brother #233

  9. #84

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    RE: Peter Barth Waco

    Because of the Waco wing geometry and where the Link is attached to the ailerons; the top aileron moves different than the bottom one. This is common to the Pica Waco as well. Just get sufficient throw from your ailerons and you'll be all set.
    BobH.

  10. #85
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    RE: Peter Barth Waco

    I agree with Bob. My Pica Waco flies just fine with unequal aileron deflection. It should pose no problem to you.
    Tom C

    Sig Brotherhood # 120
    Kadet Brotherhood #155

  11. #86
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    RE: Peter Barth Waco

    Yes, that's right. Different angles are consequence of the same torque around both ailerons and different moment arms. I have the same movement differential. So i have fixed aileron push-strut with both ailerons in lower position (ca. 28-30 deg. ang.) and the differential comes around only in upper aileron position where there is enough turbulence that angle deviation does no problems at all. I have tried different limit angles during first couple of flights and it seems that 25 deg. or 30 deg. (lower position) makes no difference. Rolls always look the same. I guess that comes from a bit of aileron drag and mostly from a big good looking inert biplane.

    Marko

  12. #87

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    RE: Peter Barth Waco

    Waco YMF3 1/4 scale project. My first steps...

    Grtz,

    Gerry
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  13. #88
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    RE: Peter Barth Waco

    Heh; my friend just posted me a not too good video of one of my first flights:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcAOn7tOMVM

    Not too scale flying i'm afraid

    grtz

    Marko

  14. #89
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    RE: Peter Barth Waco

    Hi gerry52

    How's your Waco getting on? I have just ordered a quarter scale Waco from Peter Barth which should arrive in about 10 days, and would be interested to know your progress. Maybe we could share some ideas.

    Errol

  15. #90
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    RE: Peter Barth Waco

    To all of you Wacko WACO nuts,

    This has been an interesting thread from a little different perspective. Over in Vintage and Antique forum, the is a thread about the Pica 1/5th WACO YMF, at least it started out that way. It has now grown to over 80 pages and includes the Cox/Pica ARF (one has been stripped, detailed and recovered), both sizes of the Pica kits, mention of the SIG 1/6th SRE ARF and others. Also questions and pictures of the full size WACOs (any model).

    There is another Barth WACO thread in Giant Scale - General for those who are not aware of it.

    ChrisMH has set up a web site http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/ to suppliment this Pica WACO build thread with stuff that would be hard to post on RCU. Included are PDFs of both Pica Plans and instruction manual, templates of all parts, and a list of WACO plans, kits, documentation and Full size WACO stuff.

    A very loose organization has grown from this thread called the WACO Brotherhood (Sisterhood is also included). Nothing formal, just a liking of WACOs of any kind and a wish to join (post a request in the thread). A "T" Shirt has been developed and looks very good (see post # 1999, page 80 for a picture), just post a request for a shirt or two and once the price has been set, you will be notified on how to pay.

    So consider this an invatation to take a look at the build over at V & A and to join the WACO Brotherhood.
    John F Howard (aka skylarkmk1)
    AMA 10955, WACO Brotherhood #26, AWC, NWC

  16. #91
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    RE: Peter Barth Waco


    ORIGINAL: chuck l

    Marko,

    Could you look at the attached pictures, the lower aileron will only deflect 20 degrees down whereas the upper aileron will move 30 degrees. In the up position they both exceed 45 degrees. In the down position, the upper aileron is resting against the trailing edge of the wing, and the lower aileron still has a gap. Without the upper aileron attached, the lower aileron will easily get to 30 degrees. From your pictures, your ailerons look to move equally in the down position. Can you give me some suggestions to corrects this.

    Chuck
    If you will look at photos of the full scale WACO's you will see that the slave rod is not in parallel with the struts. The top of the slave rod is further back from the interplane strut than the bottom. I had the same problem on the first Pica 1/5th scale that I built. I subsequently made the change on the next and all the rest since, and I have equal throws. As the other guys said, I doubt if it makes any difference as to the flight quality, but since I like to have mine scaled out, I made the modifications. I will include a photo (I know that everyone is tired of seeing this plane) that shows the difference in slave rod angle. The top bracket is 3/16" further back than the bottom broacket.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
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    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  17. #92
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    RE: Peter Barth Waco

    Long time no see(a) guys... I'm doin' a construction work on my new 1:3 Waco (for Moki or 3W 5 cyl. radial). As a litlle bit of entertainment, here's my video waht Waco can really do... (next time i'll pick a Count Basie...). On second video, there's my fathers Moswey III and my PZL Wilga "tractor" machine ...

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=Nh9f9A1oWHo

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=R2Y4F_5SuyA

    Many happy landings,

    grtz from Slovenia (a small land, so don't bother to find it, it's in scale 1:3 )),

    Marko

  18. #93

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    RE: Peter Barth Waco

    Hi, I would like to join the WACO Brotherhood. Thanks. Dennis
    I have seen things you people wouldn’t believe.

  19. #94
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    RE: Peter Barth Waco


    ORIGINAL: denoferth

    Hi, I would like to join the WACO Brotherhood. Thanks. Dennis
    Dennis,

    You are now officially Waco Brother # 104. Come by the YMF forum in Vintage and Antique and join in sometime.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  20. #95

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    RE: Peter Barth Waco


    I would to join the Waco broyherhood.

  21. #96
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    RE: Peter Barth Waco

    Gunner3,

    "I would to join the Waco broyherhood."

    I don't know about a broyherhood but the Brotherhood is open to all WACO Wackos.

    Drop in to the WACO YMF thread in Goldenage, Vintage and Antique and ask to join over there. Bill is on sort of a vacation right now and will try to check in during the evening hours and he is the keeper of the list.
    John F Howard (aka skylarkmk1)
    AMA 10955, WACO Brotherhood #26, AWC, NWC


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