EF

I test flew my new Aeronca today, and I am totally in love with this new model!

Built from the old Precedent kit, powered by an old OS 61 FSR turning an APC 13-5.
Spans 108", weighs 10.5 Lb. and flys so realistically that everyone at the field stopped to watch and take photos.
Has a lot of adverse yaw from the ailerons - I'll add lots of differential, and has to be flown with coordination, I guess like the real one.
The wing is enormous, and so the engine just has to pull it forward a bit and it starts flying. Cruise needs 50% throttle, and in order to land you need an extremely low idle.
On the first landing I got "stuck" in ground effect and the wheels just would not touch. After a few attempts, I lowered the idle to the lowest I dared, and somehow it landed, ever so gently.
Not for windy weather or cross winds, that's for sure.

Will now start work on the instrument panel, seats, and pilot.

I must add that with all those ARFs around (I tried one or two myself) nothing beats the satisfaction from building my own.

TomCrump

Nice work on a seldom modeled aircraft.

Ram-bro

My Feedback: (101)

congrats on a beautiful build and your last statement about arfs....100% behind you

Putz Brother

Hear ye, Hear ye, can I get a witness?

littlera

Erez,

I have been admiring your Champ. I am starting work on the same kit.

My kit is missing the instruction manual. Do you still have one?? I would love to arrange to get a copy of it.

Do you still have the Champ? Is it still flying?

I noted you made up scale struts. I intend to do the same. Plan to use CRRC 26i gas engine.



Thanks,

Randy Little

EF

Thanks Randy, I should have the instructions sheet (2 1/2 pages only of general notes actually), will look for them.
PM me your e-mail and I'll send a scan.

Still have it, still fly it, have added lots of aileron dfferential (1:3 or more) and it makes it a lot better in the turns.

Added seats and a panel since then. Seats from the Dynaflite cockpit kit for their Cub.

Careful with the gas engine - my 2s balanced it exactly with not an additional gram required.
If you reinforce the front and put a heavy gas engine, forget about finishing it at 10.5 Lbs.
Will still fly well, but I preferred the lightest possible loading on mine.

littlera

Erez,

Thanks ever so much for the reply! Really quick! I appreciate it.

My email is [email protected].

Love the seats - a very nice touch.

I suspected the instructions wouldn't amount to much, but it would be nice to see them. This is a builder's kit, afterall.........

I had already planned to use two aileron servos and set them up with differential. I had not planned for 3:1, but with your experience I will do just that. I had also planned to mix rudder in with aileron. Have you been doing this, too? I have found this works well on large Cubs.

I am going to use the gasser just because I want to try one - no other good reason. I had originally thought of using an OS 160 Gemini, but I don't currently own one and they are pretty pricey. Actually, the CRRC 26i only weighs 2.5 lbs., which is within one ounce of the Gemini 160 weight! Your engine weighs about 20 ounces, so mine will be + 18 ounces. Counter balancing this in the tail could add an additional 6 ounces, for a total of 1.5 lbs. If mine comes in at 12 lbs., wing loading will still be less than 18 oz. /sq. ft. I am also going for Coverite and Solartex coverings, painted with latex paint. This is all the rage for scale in the States (especially for warbirds) and is not as heavy as it sounds. Still, with this type paint I would probably have to add nose weight with an engine like yours.

This is a pretty small gasser, and will take minimal reinforcement of the firewall area, I beleive.

I guess I like to fly a plane that penetrates real well, vs. a "floater." I have heard that this plane, when built light, won't come out of the sky! That would make landings tricky on our grass field here in North Carolina, which in the Summer has tall corn growing at each end of the runway.

littlera

Erez,

By the way, where in the heck are you flying this plane?? Is this a public road out in the middle of nowhere, an airport, or a model flying field??

If this is a dedicated model flying site, I am going to come to Israel to do some flyin'!

Cheers,

Randy L.

EF

Hi

I mailed the 1 1/2 sheets.
Actually it's 3 sheets total but half in English and half is a translation to French

I used separate servos for ailerons but otherwise it's all per plans (excluding struts - I made them better scale than those provided).
I liked the idea of building such a large model using such a small engine, it really is designed very very well.

Covered in film since I had no way to paint in fuel proof silver color (have no spraying facility or experience).

It is a floater, very difficult to get down, you need the lowest idle, and fly with a large prop with low pitch.
I use a 13-5 but plan trying a 14-4 soon.

Once you have aileron diff. you don't need too much rudder in the turns.

Actually it's such a floater, that for my 1/4 Cub I chose the clipped wing version, in the hope it would float less and be easier to land.

If you need any help during construction - let me know.
The only tip I can think of - don't beef it up, it is very well designed as is.

littlera

I got the instructions. They should be really helpful. Thanks again!

I too am going to do scale struts. I saw another model on another site with the single strut per the Precedent plan - totally ruins the look of the plane in my opinion. I may use the K+S Engineering airfoil shaped extruded aluminum tubing, 3/4" for the front strut and 1/2" for the rear strut. It is very realistic, light weight, paintable, and expensive.

Randy L.

sj3cub

My Feedback: (9)

I have been looking for this kit for a while now. No luck what so ever. Erez, You have done a very nice job on your Champ. I can tell from the pic's that it is a very clean job. You should be very proud of yourself.
Regards

canadian propnut

Fantastic job Erez! I have the same kit and am almost ready to start the build. I too am missing the instruction sheets. I've sent you a PM requesting a copy if you could email them to me please.

thanks in advance...

littlera

I am framing up my plane now. Here is a tip:

The plans for the Precedent kit show only the right wing panel. The builder is expected to build the left wing over the right panel drawings. This can be done, of course, by carefully transposing the ailerons and putting the correct ribs at the correct locations. I thought it would be more convenient to have a mirror image copy of the right panel, thus creating a left panel. I took the plans to the local Staples office supply store. They can do large format copying, and the copier has a mirror image feature in its software. They made a perfect 1:1 size copy of the original plans, only in reverse. It cost me USD 4.80. It is not a bad idea to do this with any model plan, especially when confronted with an old, wrinkled, curled paper plan. You end up with a bright, shiny, flat paper copy with no curl in it. Build on this plan, get it dirty, smudged, holed, and glued, and in the end throw it away. Keep the original. Makes sense!

If you do copy, check to be sure the size is exact match, at least within a couple of mm on the span.

Good luck,

Randy Little

SunShyne

My Feedback: (68)

well done sir, beautiful airplane and one of my favorites

Top_Gunn

My Feedback: (6)

Gorgeous plane. Wish I could find one of those kits. A real shame that they're gone.

bilbodaddy

Erez,
I bought a used one of these babies for $100, it's a little beat up but well built and the problems are cosmetic. I didn't even know what it was until a club member said it looks like a "champ". A few searches later and I spotted yours. It's pretty windy around here (Northern Illinois) so I'll probably use about a 1.4 2stroke in it. Well done-hope mine flies next spring.
Paul B.

flying geckos

Hi guys, I recently started on this model too. Could not fine a kit, but a friend of mine has one he's had for about 20 years, so i've borrowed his plans, and have made a start on the fus. I'm planning on using Zenoah G26 to power it. My friend let me fly his last year, and i loved it. This is a fantastic kit, and really should still be available. It certainly was a pain cutting all the ply parts!

Can't wait to get this finished
Mike

EF

Looking good!

A word or two about that G-26 if I may:

It's far more power than you really need if you build per plans (and yes I know the theory about being able to close the throttle, I just do not agree with it...)
Mine balanced perfectly when built per plan, servos under the front seat, and an old OS60 FSR with Mick Reeves silencer, meaning you may end up rather nose heavy with that 26.

flying geckos

Thanks for your thoughts Erez.

If I remember right, my friend has the old Zenoah 23 (which weighs the same as the 26) in his, and had to move radio gear + flight battery etc aft to get balance right. It does however allow for some mild airobatics - I know - not scale but great fun especially with this model. Seeing a champ prop hanging is quite a bizarre sight! Also if i remember right his originally used piano wire for the wing struts, but these have been upgraded to alloy tube to give more strength.
Yours looks fantastic in the pics, and I hope I can do mine justice! - was thinking of solartex for covering, and I especially like your strut modification, I think I'll have to include that on mine, it just looks so much better.

Mike

ChampFlyer

I have a Z 20ei that I want to use...but I can't find a kit anywhere! The HL Pilot Champ is very nice, but expensive. Is it possible to get a copy of the Precedent Champ plans?

Great build. This is a special plane...

buzzard bait

EF, if you haven't tried the 14x4 yet I urge you to do it. I use one on an OS .70 FS on a Four Star 60 and it is perfect. Everyone complains about this plane being a floater on landing, but mine lands beautifully with the 14x4. I was concerned that four inches of pitch might not provide enough speed, but it does for the 4* and I'm sure it will for your Champ.

Nice model! And nice to see it with modest power and light weight - I think that is really the way to have fun with this type and keep it realistic. I wish Sig would do a 1/5 scale version like their Cub.

Jim

EF

Thanks Jim, yes I also have a 4 pitch on a Jungmeister and it pulls very well.
I like large diameter low pitch props, they give excellent speed control and lots of drag in idle.

I try to keep every model within its design parameters.
The Champ was designed lightly for modest power, and so it suits it so well.

I also have Precedent's 82" Stampe kit yet unbuilt, and that too will follow the same original approach of modest power on a lightly loaded airframe, even though I 've seen some using a large gas burner (just haven't figured out its advantage...?)

BTW I covered with film, even though I don't like using film, mainly to keep weight down on such a large model, and due to there being the correct colors available.

buzzard bait

Erez, hope to see your Stampe here someday too. I really enjoy building light and using appropriate power on scale or scale-like models, and I agree about large diameter, low pitch props. I think it is much easier to fly in a realistic manner if power is not too high, because you have to use the same kind of care that full scale pilots must use, and the throttle does not cause such unrealistic changes in speed or climb. It's a different skill, and a different pleasure.

The closest I've had to a Champ was my old DeBolt "Champ", which was a sport model with a vague Aeronca look. It had a 55 inch span, 600 square inches, weighed just under 3 pounds, and was powered perfectly with a plain bearing .15.

Your Monokote job looks good, but I think that a paint job can be done lightly, as long as you don't insist on a deep gloss. I've had good results with Sig Koverall and dope, or Polyspan and dope. But I'm looking for dope alternatives because of toxicity.

Polyspan is a local term for a material made of non-directional synthetic fibers. It looks like the old silkspan. It is very light and tough. It goes by other names in other countries. Jim

littlera

Buzzard Bait,

I am framing up my Precedent Champ now. I will be covering mine with a large (15 ft. x 47 in.) roll of Super Coverite that I had laid back. Unfortunately this product is no longer available, unless you find in swap shop, eBay, etc. If I run out I will supplement with the good 'ol British stuff available from Balsa USA. This is Solartex - great around compound curves and has (like Coverite) the fabric look needed for the Champ.

I will be spray painting my Champ with Behr latex enamel (house paint!) This is all the rage for scale models now. Did it on my latest project, a Maule M-5, and was thrilled with the result. The latex must be overcoated with a clear acrylic paint (many available) to make it fuel proof. Used DupliColor acrylic gloss clear on the Maule. Will probably use another product the next time, as this clear has a bit of a yellow tinge I did not like. This paint method results in a LIGHT weight finish - no more than dope. You can prime with a couple of coats of nitrate dope (clear) or no prime at all. Sticks great to fiberglass with no primer at all. There are many threads on RCU on painting with latex. Of course with latex house paint, you can have millions of colors custom blended cheaply at the Home Depot or Lowes store. I used Behr with great results. There are no volatiles with this method (unless you prime with nitrate) so it doesn't smell up your shop or house!

I will be upgrading my struts with K+S Tubing airfoil tubing - 3/4 in. for front struts and 1/2 in. for rear.

I plan to use a 26cc gas engine (RCGF) for this project, mostly because I just want to try gas power. It will probably be overpowered, but that is OK with me.

Glad to see others out there still want to build this great kit!

Regards,

Randy L.

buzzard bait

Thank you, Randy. I did see some of those threads. I tried spraying latex once but didn't have the right touch. Glad to hear it's working so well for you. I'll have to experiment some more. Jim