SuperCub Man

Thanks Richard. I'll think about your suggested tail wheel set up. The one being made by my friend is simply the one shown on the Swietzer plans and perhaps I should have said "looks like" the scale one. The one you made is a work of art. I doubt I could go that far. I don't know the mechanical set up for the real one anyway and with a possible tail heavy problem I think I should stay as light as I can. Spider wire sounds good.
I have Googled for the Royal Mail crest and have not had any success. I will post the question on RC Canada and RC Scalebuilder and see if I get any response from somone who might have it or know a source. Thanks for the thought.
I envy your visit to Old Warden and Cosford. I visited Hendon a few years ago on a trip to the UK with my brother who was visiting his old RCAF wartime sites. Also caught the Imperial War Museum. All fantastically interesting. Would love to have seen Duxford and others but didn't have the time.
- Got the nose block carved today. The balsa block I have is as hard as pine. Difficult to carve but an asset later being difficult to dent.
Thanks for your help. I'll let you know what I find.

Jim

bradshawce

Every August at Woburn Abbey in Bedfordshire there is a Dehavilland Moth regatta with literally hundreds of different DH's flown in from all over the world. Here's a selection of a few Rapides and a rather impressive Vimy (Just for fun)

SuperCub Man

Thanks for those pictures Bradshawce. An interesting set of wheel pants on G-ECAN and I love the Vimy! But imagine the rigging nightmare at the field each time you went to fly. I guess those were the days when after installing all the wire rigging on the aircraft they'd let a bird loose in the airframe and it if got out they'd say they didn't have enough rigging!!
Jim

bradshawce

I thought G_AGSH looked a lot like the one owned by Philip Meeson. (The main difference being the spats of course).
Looks like someone has already done the Vimy bird perch! http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_32...tm.htm#3232781


Chris

SuperCub Man

Chris -
An interesting looking model but a little different fuse from the pix previously posted. Is this a scale variant? Prefer the original. Found the Royal mail logo I'm seeking from the Royal Mail Museum but not the heraldic crest. Still looking!
Jim

Richard m Crapp

Just to clarify Bradshawce' Woburn Abbey picture.
G-ECAN is a DRAGON. (not Rapide)
The smaller Twin is a DRAGONFLY
DH also made a earlier taper wing DRAGON.
From these and the later 4 Engine (88 I think) DH made the commercially successful DRAGON RAPIDE.

If G-ECAN is the one renovated and flown by Air Lingus I have been for a fly in it.
and If I can ever get my scanner working I have a few interesting pictures.

Richard m Crapp

If I have done this rite this is my 1/4 Rapide at Woburn in 1988. a similar picture appeared in the Moth Club magazine as well.
The name of the full size owner is Brian Woodford and he also owned a Dragon fly G-ADTE and a
Fox Moth G-ADHA all in the same Prince of Wales colours.

stearman65

Just in the planning stage to build the Bates Rapide. Went to the Manchester museum of Science and industry in England a couple of days ago. If I do go ahead this may be my model, easy colour scheme and only 25 miles away if I want more detail. I took around 46 hi res pictures of the parts of the aircraft I could get at. If anyone wants one or more PM your email address and I'll send what I can. I have posted two pictures in my gallery, one is low res of the front of the aircraft, the other is hi res of the port wheel boot or spat.
Stearman65[img][/image

SuperCub Man

Hi Richard. That's a beautiful looking aircraft. I like the combination of the bright colours. Found the attached photo of aircraft on "Royal" livery when I was downloading everything I could find to pick a colour scheme. 1988 eh! Those were the years!

Jim

SuperCub Man

Hi Eric
I envy your close approximation to the actual aircraft that you intend to model. Especially one with the colours you like. I've been working on mine - trying to figure out the wing. The section is ssooo thin! The ribs are cut such that when they are placed over the plans the rear spar is 1/4" off the drawn plan and the hardwood spars that mount into the fuse are out about the same. The amazing part is that they match the laser cutouts in the fuse! Whew! Thank goodness for that. Now to see if I can run a torque rod through them!
Jim

stearman65

Hi Jim
Thought you had a problem with your PC, sent some stuff earlier this week but didn't get a reply. The dinky toy seller contacted me and offered to supply transfers of the RM logo, sent a reply asking to email a picture but nothing as yet. Did you get the pictures of your aircraft I sent? Re the build does this mean the wing isn't thick enough to hide a micro servo. Are you planning to split your wings? there is a natural break point just outboard the engine nacelle on the lower wing.
Regards Eric

SuperCub Man

Hi Eric,
Thought I did reply to your E-mail earlier this week. Have sent you another this AM and will follow up with answers to this

Jim

SuperCub Man

Hi Eric,
Replying for the thread - Yes I will be splitting the wings. Richard Crapp suggested a method and I'm going with that. That will be to split the lower wing, as you mentioned, outboard of the nacelle at the dihedral joint. To mopunt the wings I will use some aluminum arrow shafts as wing tubes with inner tubes of carbon fibre arrow shafts that fit each other perfectly and should be strong enough for this purpose.
Because the ribs at the aileron position (WU14 on the top and WL20 on the bottom wing), are about 7/16" at the thickest, I can't see how you would install any servo and not have it hanging out the bottom. I hate this appearance and I don't like the wire and bellcrank set up, so I've decided to go with torque rods. I plan on using the Dave Brown fiberglass push rods, which are 5/16" dia. and are long enough for the top wing. The arrow shafts are too short. I'll have two servos in the middle of the wing section on the top wing and in the back of the nacelles on the bottom wing. I'l harden up the balsa around the holes in the ribs with thin CA and have small "cuffs" on the pushrod at a couple of stations to bear against a rib so the rod doesn't move laterally. Each end will have a threaded rod mounted 90 degrees so I can attach a fitting to take a quick link. Then a normal rod to the aileron horn and to the servo. The bottom wing will be a bit trickier since it has that dihedral at the attachment point. I devised a universal joint (see below) for the lower wing torque rod that will take care of that problem. I will use square tubing to slide in and out of other square tubing to mount and dismount the torque rods when dismantling the wings.
By using the rigging to hold everything tightly together and doing a good trammeling job, the longer top wing panel and the shorter lower wing panel should assemble easily with only a few wires to hook up. Transporting with just the center section with nacelles and wheels should be no problem.
Don't know if I've explained this well. or over done it! But I'd be happy to answer any questions. Be happier if anyone sees that I'm missing something!

Jim

Richard m Crapp

Seems a lot of trouble, all those rods and joiners. You can get VERY slim servos for gliders that would probably fit.
You would only need two in the bottom wing then the scale link up the strut to that big top horn that you have got to make dummy anyway.

Look at German makes, Robb and Groupner as the Germans are big on gliders. They have several other specialist makes as well. Not much power needed.

Mine was 1/4 so was not such a problem, I had a Futaba 17m for etch aileron, on its side.

SuperCub Man

Thanks for the info Richard. I had nothing to work on during the two months it took to get my kit from PKC so I did this work. Since it's all done now I doubt I'll scrap it. Last time I ordered a dozen pulleys from Robbe the shipping was three times the cost of the product! Doubt I'll go that route again! But I see some double BB Hitec servos here that measure .4" thick and have 42/49 in. oz torque that are a possibility if not rather pricey. Still not at that stage yet so we'll see. I was just checking the top wing to see whether it fit to the fuse .

Jim

SuperCub Man

Well Richard, after investigation into what's available in my neighbourhood, I went with your suggestion with 4 Digital servos that are .39in thick and give me 49in.oz torque. I haven't kept up with the small servo scene as I'm not into park flyers etc. but you pointed me in the right direction. Still, it was fun devising the working universal joint!

Jim

Richard m Crapp

Oh Dear.
I feel guilty now for not suggesting that earlier!

Their is a picture of a square drive I really did have to make on my Ryan Build Thread :

http://www.rcscalebuilder.com/forum/...974&PN=2&TPN=6

I am sure the servos will be a lot less trouble. Have you studied the horns on the outer struts.

SuperCub Man

If you mean the aileron counter-balance horns, then yes I have. At 1/6 scale it all seems pretty small and not very strong. I don't understand how they work. As I see it a cable connects the top and lower horns but what drives them? Just don't get the mechanics of it. Will certainly have to have some representation of them for scale value but other than that !!?? If you know of or have any diagrams would appreciate your advise.
Don't fret about the servo thing. Being an old fart I just fell a little behind the current trend. Should have looked at that solution myself. I appreciate your advise. Now only have to route the wiring for the servo and running lights. Easy stuff compared to where I was going before.

Jim

Richard m Crapp

If I remember correctly their is cables/push rods and bell crank from the pilot to the lower aileron .
Then their are the big horns top and bottom that are connected by a rod down the big outer strut.
You can see them very nicely in the picture that sterman65 posted earlier.
If you look closely at the bottom horn in the picture you can also see the rod from the belcrank that is working the lower horn.
Perfect for your servo, AND you only need two!
The horn are quite prominent so you would have ! to make them. You would only need a K-Link that would be hidden when the aileron were neutral on the ground.

SuperCub Man

Hi Richard,
I don't know which picture that would be - couldn't see it on this thread. Also I don't know what a "k-link" is. Perhaps something that we have a different name for?
Going down to the shop to do a bit of work now - Talk to you later!

Jim

Richard m Crapp

The picture is about 13 posts above this one. A lovely shot of A Rapide and Fox Moth in tha air.

Sorry, K links are kwik links. the universal springy things we link servos to horns with.

SuperCub Man

OK Richard - "duh" I get the K-links!! Just never heard them refered to as such - sorry 'bout that. The horn you're talking about I think is as I've attached here. (Courtesy of Stearman65) I'm not sure if I can build up the strut and horns strong enough in this small structure to work "scale like". The horns will be shown of course, but may be fake. The servos are certainly strong enought to drive one aileron but I'm not sure they are strong enough to drive two. Will play with them when I get to that stage.
Jim

SuperCub Man

Another "DUH"! Just looked at the plans again and Sweitzer has drawn the installation of the aileron horns just as I decided (while falling asleep in bed last night) I was going to do them, by running a small tube about 2" long into the top and bottom of the strut and attaching a small piece of wire to the end of the horn to simulate the connecting cable! Perhaps this is what you meant Richard.
Also solved the flat bottomed wing section problem. I've built the top right wing section. Before capping the bottom of the ribs, I glued 1/8th sq. balsa to them and sanded each one flat. Then cap stripped as per the plans. Worked well and looks good but was a lot of work since I had to grip the wing solidly while sanding and naturally broke parts of the wing by gripping too hard. The second go will be different as I have filled the undercamber of each rib (as below) before starting the construction. Once again moving ahead before thinking it through!
The finished panel looks rather delicate but in fact is quite strong. Both front spars are spruce and with the sheer webbing a good "D" section is formed. The required washout is installed in the wing tip.
Have ordered Jerry Nelson's "flat" flying wires so now have to figure out how to install them without a bunch of large quick-linKs
(k-links!) spoiling the scale appearance. Nelson's small connectors are not available so we have Dubro or Sullivan (prefered) to work with. Perhaps screw the lower end into a fitting in the lower wing and use the k-link to connect under the top wing where it will be a little hidden?
Awaiting the arrival of the small servos. They seem to be in short supply. I'm not getting the digital as they are just not available and I'm too impatient to wait for Hitec to ramp up their production!
And so it goes


Jim

Richard m Crapp

Another "DUH"! Just looked at the plans again and Sweitzer has drawn the installation of the aileron horns just as I decided (while falling asleep in bed last night) I was going to do them, by running a small tube about 2" long into the top and bottom of the strut and attaching a small piece of wire to the end of the horn to simulate the connecting cable! Perhaps this is what you meant Richard.

What i wanted you to do was use the horns to control both ailerons, It would be so easy to connect them through the strut then use a servo in the bottom wing connected to the horn as in the picture now 14 posts above!

Have ordered Jerry Nelson's "flat" flying wires so now have to figure out how to install them without a bunch of large quick-links
(k-links!) spoiling the scale appearance. Nelson's small connectors are not available so we have Dubro or Sullivan (prefered) to work with. Perhaps screw the lower end into a fitting in the lower wing and use the k-link to connect under the top wing where it will be a little hidden?

I make a deep U Chanel out of 16 swg mild steal or 20 g stainless. This has a tab silver soldered on to take the wire attachment.
I fill between the spar with end grain balsa and face with thin ply. Bolt or screw the metal on through the web.
For the wires Mick Reeves has some nice fork ends and thinner wire for the tail.
Perhaps Kwik Links would not be safe even if you could hide them.

A few of us are using http://bredavik.se/flyingwire/ They are a bit expensive. about $15 etch average.
Nelson is the US agent but i can not see them on his www sight.

SuperCub Man

Have finished the top wings. Interestingly I found the left wing panel was drawn 1/2" shorter than the right panel. Bottom wing panel drawings measure the same each side so it isn't paper stretch!. The drawings for the cutouts for the rear spar on all ribs is back about 1/8" from the position shown on the wing panel so all ribs have to be adjusted to fit. And so the fun continues! Don't be mislead - I really do love this plane and the challenge it brings. This info is only for anyone who is going to build.
Question - Did anyone who built this aircraft use left/right thrust on the engines? Ziroli claims that on his DC3, the engines are so close to the center line that it doesn't matter and the engines are set at zero-zero. The long fuse moment probably also helps in the event of a lost engine. I think this may be the case with the Rapide. Any thots??
Ordered two Laser 80's today!

Jim