JDHammer

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Spuetz,

I don't know if you have the book "Albatros D.VA" by Robert Mikesh (Smithsonian). It has 114 pages detailing the exact full-scale aircraft that 2-Piece is recreating in 1/4 scale. I'm looking at page 75 which shows the top wing detail and it's really quite incredible the way 2-Piece has duplicated it. The number, shape, location and color of the lozenges is all there, including the glossy Eisernes-kruez.

I do have a quote from the book that may be relevant ,(pg 73 Speaking about the full scale aircraft):

"There is no denying that the dope application on the restored Albatros used different dope and more coatings than when first manufactured in wartime 1918. This was of little consequence when considering the preservation benefits that were gained in using modern material and techniques. "

In other words, 2-Piece's aircraft is a perfect model of a restored aircraft which may, or may not look like the 1918 version.

2-Piece- Fantastic work-Will you actually fly it after all that effort?

pittsdriver

My Feedback: (7)

Martin, The fabric jobs coming out of the Albatros factory were actualy quite good. The colors of the lozenge were also bright although kind of translucent. That's where painting them is not quite accurate because of the opacity. They were also clear doped so if you look in some pictures they are quite shiny but not quite glossy. I did the D-7 with flat interior latex and then finished it in clear buyterate dope. It came out with the right amount of shinyness. On my Albatros I will go with GT fabric if I do a lozennge airplane. I havn't decided what airplane to do so that is down the road aways. Also most of the aces personal airplanes were kept in very nice shape by the crews and were usually pretty clean. The regular line airplanes could get ratty looking. Don

2 Piece

My Feedback: (8)

JD- thanks for noticing the lozenge detail. The placement is a little off, but trying to keep them aligned over the entire seven and half foot length was quite a job- especially when you consider using five different templates. I did the best I could do on both the top and bottom of the wings. I enlarged page 71 from the book you mentioned to make the templates I used. Yes I hope to fly her some time this year. Probably not until late summer early fall- to many other projects to get started on (1/3 PA18 and I am waiting on the 1/3 Waco from RC Showcase- should be middle of Feb.)

Spuetz, yes I believe one can possibly over do it. Not so much in color and placement, but in things like rib stitching, panel lines, rivets.... models are judged at around 10' and I am building a 1/4 scale, so what ever is visible at 40' on the "real" plane should be visible on mine at 10'. There's a lot of detail you can not see on a "real" aircraft at 40'. But it also depends on your photo documentations you present to the judges, and most photos are taken to highlight details. So you have to have those details visible on your model so the judges can see them. Never ending circle.
As far as the gloss your referring to Pittsdriver has it right. The real planes were clear doped and dope does have a gloss. And like JD states, I am modeling mine after a restored aircraft which does have a satiny gloss sheen. The picture you see appears a little more glossy than it will actually be because I took the picture after I applied a gloss clear. Gloss will show the imperfections- just what I wanted. I will now do some touch ups and then apply a satin/ gloss (dope sheen) finish. If it looks good with a gloss coat, it will look even better with a satin.

The pictures are about a month old and I now have the green strips applied to the tail. At present I am working on the exhaust- soldering up aluminum tubing- it's kind of a pain.

Pittsdriver, I personally like the color on the bottom of the wings best- a little more brighter and colorful. It would be nice to find a plane scheme that used the lower colors on both the top and bottom. From the reading I have done it could be possible?

A few more thoughts to anyone considering the Proctor D.Va; while they may seem a little pricey they are worth every penny. There a builders kit and may seem a little intimidating but they build into wonderful aircraft. Get the Hansen video, and any book you can, especially the Smithsonian (Robert Mikesh) book if you can find one (out of print). Proctor kits make you look good.
2 Piece

Spuetz

Hi JD Hammer, 2 Piece,
I haven't even received the kit yet and here I am wisecracking already.. Sorry.
Thanks for the info. I'll get the book if I can. Just ordered the video.
Something else: Do you know of any DVs in Germany? If so, I could go and take pictures and send them to anyone interested in the US. I just don't know if there are any original or restored ones in German museums.

As far as "overdoing": I wasn't referring to rivets and all. Love rivets! And I love detail! I wouldn't care about the 10' rule either. I am building not for competition (Don't know if I even had a chance) but for my own pleasure and satisfaction. And I tend to judge models from close.
But what I meant was: Making it look better than the real thing. Now that wouldn't be scale, would it?

Spuetz

Hi again,
talking about wisecracking: I think I can help with the meaning of "Stropp". I was born in a small town on the river Rhine, called Krefeld. And in the Krefeld dialect of German (krieewelsch) "Stropp" stands for "small boy". Depending on the context it can also mean "little mischievous boy", or "cheeky boy". I hadn't thought of that before. Sometimes the answer to a question is too close to see it... But I think it's a great fit. For the airplane, for the pilots and for us crazy modellers who refuse to grow up...

pittsdriver

My Feedback: (7)

2 Piece, I was looking at your pictures again and just have to comment. Your shop is way too clean! how anyone can work in such a clean shop is beyond me. My problem is when I finish a project and clean everything up I can't stand it and start on a new project immediately. Iguess I just like wading around in balsa shavings. Keep posting pictures all of you and get me in the mood for another WW1 model. The only problem competing with a WW1 model is that you almost have to fly off grass. My D-7 will not tolerate anything but grass. Also most scale flight judges just don't seem to understand flight characteristics of WW1 Aircraft. There is nothing like the looks and intricacy of the strucyure and rigging of early era models. I also have a Proctor Eindecker kit and it will be interesting how wing-warping is going to work. Don

JDHammer

My Feedback: (1)

LOL. I think he uses Photoshop 8.01 with the "make my shop look clean" option.

Spuetz, I checked websites at air museums in Merseburg, Munich, Villingen-Schwenningen, Berlin-Gatow, and OberschleiBheim. There were plenty of Fokkers to be found but not one Albatros. My sources say that only two originals exist-one in the Australian War Memorial Museum in Canberra and one in the National Air and Space Museum, Washington D.C., USA. They are both DVa's as all earlier Albatros models have disappeared. I'm sure you could find a reproduction, however, with a careful web search.

Hey guys-I was hoping to see Top Gun for the first time this April. Pittsdriver's post made me think of this-Does anyone know if the new location is WW1 friendly (i.e. grass available, into the wind, etc.) Also, has a DVa ever been entered there or is there a way to find out what will be there this year?

Thanks, JD

Spuetz

Hi again again,
I found an incredible website. 3-d ans stereoscopic pictures of the albatros cockpit! Check it out. Or does everyone already know?
http://wwi-cookup.com/albatros/dva/p...r_cockpit.html

catspaw

I've been getting the bug to build a DVa, but I'm seriously considering a 1/3 scale version...ooooh!

Anyways, I remember I used to have this set of plans for a 80" span DVa from England which I got through Bob Holman. It was an extremely involved plan, with laminated wingtips and tailfeathers (for the framework), among other things. So if someone is looking for something with craftsman quality in the way of plans, but doesn't want to buy the $$$ proctor kit (wish I could), this might be worth looking into.

John

G.F. Reid

My Feedback: (1)

I attended TG last April and while there is grass there, it's not ideal. The site is the full scale runway at Lakeland. Same place the EAA Sun and Fun meet is held. The grass is basically the median between runways and it drops off a bit toward the center. As I recall, it runs basically north and south.
On the upside, I do recall some mention of Tiano's intention to make the grass area more friendly this year to those planes that require it. As it stands now, the Jets have a clear advantage in my opinion.
BTW Guys, these WWI planes posted in this thread are absolutely beautiful. If you go to Tiano's site, you'll see a photo of a nice DVII that was for sale at TG and is still for sale on his site. For Sale

Reg Hinnant

My Feedback: (9)

Hi guy's.
In the 1997 issues of R/C Scale Aircraft International (English mag) there was a 3 part series on Lozenge fabric. It was one of the best articles I've seen on the subject.
Any one interested, just email me & I'll scan them and email them to you.
Roger Freeman, replica builder & restorer, once told me that he would be considered a shoddy builder if he finished to the level of the average WW1 factory finish. Get your magnifying glass out and look really good at the old plate pictures that have the detail visible. That, plus a month or two, outside, in the weather , at the "Front" gave you some rough looking aeroplanes.

Soooo.....if your modeling a replica, make it pretty and just as slick and shiney as it is.
But....if your doing Eddie Rickenbackers Neuport 28 (for example) Find one of his books and magnify the old pictures. Then make your model look like that!
Cheers,
Reg

Spuetz

Hello everyone.

I just turned 40 on Saturday. And guess what: A friend of mine, one who I met in our model club 30 yrs. ago, gave me - a laser engine! the 300v for the Albatros. I was speechless to say the least! The man's crazy, isn't he. What a lovely, thoughtful (and bloody expensive) gift!
Now here's a question? Which way around would you install it in the Albatros. Upright or Cyl pointing down? I would think, that upright is better to get to the carbs, needles and so on, but inverted would be better for the C.G (lower) and maybe also cooling. What are your experiences?
What is the largest prop that you have tried on it successfully?
All the best, Martin

Reg Hinnant

My Feedback: (9)

Hey, Spuetz, go to the source for those answers. Mr Tidey will answer and is very helpful.
[email protected]
Reg

2 Piece

My Feedback: (8)

Spuetz, inverted, cylinders pointing down, will enclose the engine. You can mount it up right but the cylinders will stick out around the dummy engine. I have mounted mine inverted. A 20" prop is about right but it will swing a 22" prop very well.
You'll have to move the firewall back about 3/8" from its location on the print. Proctor also sells a cooling fan that mounts behind the spinner to help with cooling. You'll also need flexible exhaust tubing to route the exhaust. Laser makes this flexible exhaust. Have you got your kit yet, and did you order the Hansen video?
2 Piece

Spuetz

Hello 2 Piece,

great, thank you for the information! And yes, I have the kit. and the video is ordered.
How do you access the carbs and needles when inverted? Did you make service holes or have the needles stick out?
Thanks again, cheers, Martin

pittsdriver

My Feedback: (7)

Martin, One thing nice about the Laser is when you get it broken in the needle valves require very little or no reseting. I havn't touched mine for at least 20 flights. Also be very careful setting up the carbs and get the opening synced exactly. Mine were off from the factory and required adjustment. The engine takes quite awile to break in but runs great from the get go. It really sucks down the fuel the first hour or so then actually gets good fuel economy. I run mine with two tanks, one to each carb and no exaust preasure and have never had a problem. I don't have onboard glow but running inverted you might think about it as WW1 airplanes don't deadstisk too well. I flew mine on a Sig Suhkoi for awile before I put it in the Fokker and it has always run flawlessly. Don

Spuetz

Don, thanks for that. What kind of oil are you using? And how does it work with lubricating through the breezer? How much oil do you fill? doesn't it lose oil through the breezer? Do you just let it "hang out" the bottom of the fuselage? or the top (so it doesn't lose oil)?

2 Piece

My Feedback: (8)

Spuetz, Laser runs on model fuel, it has the oil in the fuel. Laser claims these engines run on FAI (0% nitro), but I've been running mine with Sig 10% 4 stroke fuel with great results. You do not add oil to crankcase. I made service holes and soldered socket heads to needle valve so I can use a ball end allen wrench to adjust. If you mount engine inverted the "breather" is on the top and you shouldn't have to much problems with oil leaking.
2 Piece

JDHammer

My Feedback: (1)

Spuetz- Herzlichen Gluckwunsch nachtraglish! (Happy belated Birthday).

Please inform your friend that my 48th birthday is in a couple of weeks and that I am also in need of a Laser 300 for the Albatros. (das Foppen)

Actually, I'm running a Saito 300 in a Sukhoi right now but I don't think it would fit in the Proctor. As in Pittsdriver's case, mine also took a long time to break in. (probably 1/2 case and most of my lawn killed off). Instead of one fuel tank for each cylinder, I have one large tank with two separate pickup lines with clunks. Either method should work better than the factory supplied "T" fitting.

One additional interesting note on the lozenge fabric. Found in "Albatros Fighters" (Windsock Datafile Special):
"So far as is known there were main 'day' patterns, one using a combination of four colours, the other five, and both produced in two forms, one for upper surfaces and a lighter version intended for under surfaces. Either pattern could be applied to DVa machines and there appears to have been several variations in the covering of flying surfaces. Both spanwise and chordwise applications have been noted. Aileron and elevator coverings rarely matched those of the adjacent flying surfaces and combinations of both four- and five-colour patterns on an individual machine were by no means uncommon."

This tells me that I can make some covering mistakes, crash repairs, and even spill some coffee on it. I will then claim, "that's the way it was in those days."

I'm liking this airplane better all the time.

jordy

My Feedback: (1)

2=Piece: Tremendous work! Q: where does one get the "Dick Hansen video"? Does it show construction or just flying shots? Thanks

JDHammer

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Jordy,
You could try here:[link=http://www.aero-sports.com/hansen/]Hansen Videos[/link]
The video is about 2 hours long. The majority is devoted to test flying and interviews at Proctor. Construction is described but doesn't go into great detail. I like the movie but I'm an Albatros nut.

pywackit

Hammer! Thanks for the link for the DVa dvd....I'm an Albatros nut too! I just ordered mine, can hardly wait. Such a simple thing to make a grown man happy!

Dai Phan

My Feedback: (2)

Did you order the Proctor or FunAero? DP

pywackit

Hiya Dai! I've got the Fun Aero Albatros sitting right on the shelf just waiting for it's day. I have the spinner and wheels and even found this cool pilot for it. I bought it way before most would but you see I had some cash burning a hole in my pocket and just couldn't resist! When I found the Albatros build thread I ordered one right away! I'm still learning to fly a top wing trainer and have a great instructor, I managed to get another radio for my buddy box, now I need to get my AMA still and I'm ready to fly even more.

When I was a little kid I read this weird WWI airplane book about some German pilots that got involved in some German scientists experiment. What happen was the pilots ended up getting this flesh eating gas on them and it ate them all up except for there skeletons! They were still alive but couldn't be killed so they became this killer squadron from hell! No one could kill them but the cover of this book showed a skeleton with a flight helmet flying Fokker D-7s and some Albatros's. My figure for my Fun Aero pilot is of course a skeleton wearing a flight helmet....LOL! He's in the box smiling and waiting to shot down all those Camels and Nieuports!

Can't wait for you to fly yours! I'm sure many here are busting to know how it goes.

Dai Phan

My Feedback: (2)

Excellent! Please go ahead and built yours. I will be glad to offer assistant. I used to live in Wichita, KS ( I went to WSU) and used to fly at the Beech airfield in the mid eighties. DP