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Pilatus PC12

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Old 03-23-2008, 08:24 PM
  #76
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

Hello,

I have been out of RC for a couple of years due to work, I have also wanted to build a PC-12 from scratch.

I am a mechanic on the PC-12 (SN-681) and have a complete maintenance manual library on my computer if you need any scale illustrations or anything, just ask.

I would love to get a copy of your plans in DXF format, please email them to me at: kelly.smith@cox.net or kelly.smith@eglin.af.mil.

If anyone needs any documentation on the plane I can PDF the files and email them to you directly.

I am looking for a new project to start.

Thanks,


Weskel
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:08 AM
  #77
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

Hi Kelly,

Glad to help out - but which size do you need? 1/16 electric or 1/8 nitro/gas/electric. I also have the parts files available in .cdr, .dxf and .dwg formats. Let's know if you want them too.

Sam - I've found a new guy who can probably cut my parts. I just have to get a test shot from him to know for sure and them I'll be back on track - hopefully soon now.....

Cheers,
Greg
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:12 AM
  #78
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

Oops, just re-read your post, and noticed you need them in .dxf - sorted! The plans themselves are in .pdf format so you can get them printed at any copy shop.

Cheers again,
Greg
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Old 03-24-2008, 07:14 AM
  #79
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

Thanks,

I would like the 1/8 scale nitro.

I will take anything you are willing to send my way.

Like I said before I have the entire maintenance manual installed on my laptop, if you need anything let me know.

I will gladly take any files you have, I have been wanting to build one of these every since I started managing/maintaining the PC12.

I work in Autocad for my plans so DXF would be great.

thanks again, and dont hesitate to ask if you need anything from me.

Weskel
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:18 AM
  #80
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

Hi Weskel,

I've just emailed the files to you. Let me know if you have any problems opening them etc.

cheers,
Greg
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:19 PM
  #81
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

I recieved them, havent had a chance to look at them yet.

Thanks alot.

Weskel
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:33 PM
  #82
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

I just looked at your plans and you did an awsome job on them.

My wife and kids are going to be gone for about 2 1/2 months this summer visiting family so I will have plenty of time to live in my shop.

This will be my project this summer. I hope you don't mind, but I will be asking alot of questions....

Thanks again.

Weskel
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:24 PM
  #83
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

I was looking over the plans today and I noticed you didnt have a DXF file for the horizontal and vertical stab ribs, or the rudder and elevator ribs.

Did you draw them out?

Also have you made a list of required materials?

I am going to have the blue prints printed this afternoon, I am very eager at getting started on this.

Thanks

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Old 03-27-2008, 01:16 PM
  #84
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

Also I noticed there were no DXF files for W6, W7, W9, and W10.

Are they missin go r do we just manually cut them from teh full size plans and use as a template?

thanks again.

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Old 03-27-2008, 04:04 PM
  #85
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

Weskel ask greg for the PDF plans. As I am sure that they are 100% complete.
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:57 PM
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

Hi Weskel,

They are all drawn - I guess I just forgot to attach the files, so I'll check and send them off. Sorry about that.

Cheers,
Greg
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Old 03-27-2008, 09:10 PM
  #87
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

no problem at all, I am just excited to get started on this thing.......

I had tried to start a thread about four years ago about building the PC12.

I have access to a laser etcher/cutter at my work and I should be able to use it after hours to cut the DXF's out...

i will keep you posted.

If you get a chance to email out the other files send them to the following address: kelly.smith@cox.net

thanks again.

Weskel
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Old 04-02-2008, 02:35 PM
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I wish I had seen this post a bit earlier... I have been currently working on a Pilatus PC-12 design. I work for autodesk so I know how to use all of those fancy 3D programs that you guys are talking about. I have generated some plans on my computer using the manufacturer's 3 view drawings. I have used some of the latest software technology, so I know that it is accurate. I modeled the airplane in a 3D program and I created all the cross sections accurately so I know they are exactly like the real airplane. I will say that for the amount of wing area that you get off of a 6'-0' wingspan, I am currently designing the almost the same size model as you, and I am fitting it for a OS .61 two stroke, so I don't know that the model will be at the right weight for a O.s. .61 2-stroke. I haven't done any major weight calculations of my aircraft, so I assume that it may or may not be too heavy. I truly wish I had researched this earlier, I would have totally collaborated on this thing with you from the beggining. Anyway, I am about 50 percent done. I have the wing plan all laid out, most of the wing ribs are all prepared and drafted, the vertical fin, the fuselage is modeled out in 3D, but I havent created the cross sections yet. I plan on posting this plan on a website so people can order it. If you have any thoughts at all, just email me. I don't know that is even worth combining efforts at this stage in the game but maybe we can learn from each other. I'll post some images in a little bit when I get home.
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Old 04-02-2008, 03:04 PM
  #89
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

I have some other posts on this forum. I started doing an Otter and a Cirrus, but I stopped because I wanted to do a kit that no one has done before.

Here is my Otter 3D model that my parts would be based on. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4872530

I have some Cirrus renderings of the Cirrus kit that I was going to design but I have to dig up those pictures on my other computer... Anyway, this is so exciting that I found someone that wants to do the same thing I do!

I love the internet...
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:05 AM
  #90
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

Hi Pirit,

Great to hear that somebody else thinks this is a worthwhile model to build...

I initially thought that the wing would not be big enough to support the weight, but I've changed my mind now that I've been flying my GP Lancair for a while. When I was assembling the Lancair, I put the wing over my plans and found that it is almost the same size, with just the ailerons and flaps being different sizes. The aerofoil I chose should lift the weight, so I just have to make sure its strong enough to take the loads.

I'm planning on using an OS 75AX and I'm sure it will have plenty of power for the task. It will just take some work to disguise it in that skinny nose!

I have Inventor 5.0 and was going to use that to design this model, but must admit to being too lazy to learn a new package at this time. I've been working with CorelDraw since 1992 so I have a good handle on that. I used Corel Designer to produce the 3D images and it worked out pretty well I think. I'm definitely still learning but I'm happy that the PC12 will fly - now I just have to build it.

I'd be happy to cooperate if there's anything you need in the way of photos or details. I fly the real thing for work, so I have access to 11 of them!

Cheers,
Greg
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Old 04-04-2008, 08:53 PM
  #91
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

This is gonna be one big aircraft, i used my kids for reference. One is 10 years old and the other is 5.

Great job on the plans...

Kelly
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Old 04-05-2008, 08:12 PM
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

Will the PC12 go into kit production? If so I'll take one! Unfortunitly I have no time for scratch building, due to other projects
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Old 04-06-2008, 08:14 PM
  #93
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Hi Braden,

I'd love to see a PC12 kit or ARF in production. However, to be realistic, I think that it wouldn't be popular enough to justify. The PC12 just doesn't have the alure of a P51 or P47 for many folks, and although I don't have a military scale model (or any intention to have one), I feel I am very much in the minority.... That's why I designed this model in the first place, and why, when I'm finished with it, I intend to develop plans for a few other civilian models as well. However, all this being said, I'm not closed to the idea of developing a short kit and fibreglass parts for sale. If there is sufficient interest, I'd be happy to make these items available.

Cheers,
Greg
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Old 04-07-2008, 07:44 AM
  #94
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Those plans are pretty large. Here are some of my samples so far. It looks so much like mine... I am still finishing the stringers and the connections of the fuse crossections to the longerons. I am also in the process of drafting the stabilizer. I don't do the whole thing in 3d. I just dont think it is worth modeling the whole thing. Some things are just faster when they are drafted in 2D. I also wonder if I use flex cables for the rear control surfaces, do you think they will withstand the loads? Whenever I used flex cables, they have flexed too much...I guess I am going to have to fly it...If you look at my vertical fin, there are these block drawn in where the flex cable runs through. I did that from previous bad experiences with flex cables. I have Cub whci has a flex cable running the rudder on the float and that rudder just doesn't move very well. Here is the Cirrus I worked on. I really wanted there not to be a kit but there was...
Anyway, back to the Pilatus; do you have any ideas how to make these windows on the side? Would you make it out of some clear plastic like celluloid or something and just elmers glue it to the inside? I am trying to think of a way to make it look like a real window. I guess the holes could be cut with a dremel or some other roto-tool, but is there an "established" way of doing this?
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Old 04-07-2008, 07:52 AM
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The cirus didn't post, in case you wanted to see it. Here is the model that that the parts would be based on.

Back to the Pilatus. Also, any ideas on how to make the doors for the servos?
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Old 04-07-2008, 12:29 PM
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

Robert,

Your design does look very good, are you going to try and design some scale main retracts, if so what is your plan on them?

I may have missed it in one of your posts, but how big is the wing span and length going to be?

I hope to use a 91 four stroke I have laying around, but I am araid it wont have enough power for Oldtimers plane, if it don't, oh well, I get to buy a new engine, maybe a 120 or 140 4 stroker......

Kelly
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Old 04-07-2008, 05:23 PM
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Hi Pirit,

Under the tail of the PC12, between the ventral vins, is a small access door into what we call the "hell hole". In reality, it gives us access to the air cycle machine, oxygen bottle and the filling station for our medical oxygen system. I planned to use that access panel and hinge it with Robart gear door hinges. I can get you some photos of the door from the real aeroplane today and post them later tonight. In fact, if I look through my computer I think I already have them. Either way....

Cheers,
Greg
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Old 04-07-2008, 05:27 PM
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

Mine is a 6 foot wingspan. The wing area is is 430 sq. inches. Depending on the weight when I finish I will know what kind of engine is needed. But just going from intuition, this thing is going to have a high wing loading and may need something a bit bigger than a OS 61 2-stroke. How do you convert between 2 and four stroke power? Generally, you want a range of about 20-30 Oz/sq.ft wing loadings, that is usually what the Great Planes designs are and they ususally fly pretty well. So, judging by that number, I know that my model cannot be any more than a certain weight.

1.51 sq. ft X 2 = 3.02 sq. ft. of wing area

If I want to shoot for 20 oz/sq. ft. (which is pushing it with this geometry of airplane) you would get: 3.02 X 20 = 60.4 Oz as my target weight which = 3.77 lbs. Fat chance it will be that light.

It will probably be somewhere around this: 3.02 X 30 = 90.6 Oz = 5.66 lbs. more realistic target weight.

These are rough and if I spent a few days calculating the areas of all the parts, I could come up with a more accurate measurement, but I'd rather finish the design first before I do that because then I know all the geometries of the parts and can come up with a more accurate result. The GP Lancair is a great example: it has a wingspan of 80", it is a 60 size model. The wing area is 690 sq. inches. (THATS A LOT, THIS WILL MAKE THE MODEL FLOAT) The wing loading says its 28-30 oz/sq. ft.

The Pilatus is still going to come in on the heavy side because of the relationship between the size of the main wing and the fuselage. I speculate that the reason why this is the case is because when you have a plane as big as the pilatus in real life, you can make the wing area smaller because the plane is naturally flying at higher reynolds numbers. If we look at a cirrus, the plane is small and it flies at lower reynolds numbers and when you make a kit out of it, the geometry and proportions of the actual model are a bit better that you will usually have a better weight to wing area ratio. That's just my speculation after analysing the wing areas of all these planes that I design.
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Old 04-07-2008, 05:43 PM
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

Guys, as I mentioned a couple of posts ago, I have the GP Lancair and the wing is nearly identical in shape and area to those of the PC12 I designed. Mine comes out to 79 inches span at 1/8 scale. At 9 pounds, the Lancair flies fast but very nicely with no real problems at all. Its flaps don't do an awful lot to slow it down for landing, but they aren't the same as the PC12 either...

I'm using an OS 75AX on the Lancair and it has more than enough power to fly the aeroplane at 1/2 throttle. My original plan for the PC12 was to use an OS 91FX and I think this will be fine. A 1.20 four-stroke would be about right, but would not fit the cowl very well at all. Better to go 2-stroke with an in-cowl muffler if possible. Top flite's is fine for the 61 and 75 so it will probably also work for the 91. I'm tempted to try the 75 first if I can keep the weight down.... However, the tail needs to be built light or the engine won't balance it.

I'm expecting around 12 - 15 pounds for my PC12 and, although it is higher than I want (that's never going to change of course), I think it will be fine. The aerofoil ont he full size PC12 is a high-lift section with undercamber at the rear, and when the flaps come down even a little, there is an enormous change in lift. It is an extremely sucessful design. My model doesn't have quite this amount of lift but I think it will be pretty close, especially with flaps.

Lastly, one of the early posts is from a chap who built a PC12 of similar size and although he had fixed gear and no flaps, it flew well on a 61. I think we're good with what we have planned.

Cheers,
Greg
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Old 04-09-2008, 12:10 PM
  #100
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Default RE: Pilatus PC12

About the retracts, I am not going to design scale retracts, I am going to fit it out for mechanical robart or hobbico retracts. It makes sense because modellers can always spend a ton of cash and buy some nice scale retracts, but scale retracts cannot take impact very well from a bad landing, so these wires ones are actually a better choice for durability. Also, I can dress up the wire retracts with some robart retract "covers" see the robart site and I could paint them and make them look very good. I think those air operate robart scale retracts are pretty expensive!! But, if it really strikes your fancy, I will provide enough room to instal those if you want.
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