smcouch77

Well, I guess since I’m starting this thread with the plane half built, I should briefly cover what’s gone before.The plane is designed to be flown either as Control Line or R/C. I have been flying C/L for 23 years, and am just getting started in R/C.
Since I wanted a full cockpit, I started there and pretty much framed the plane around it. I used pictures from the Memorial Flight Association web site for most of the detail work. I compared them to pictures of other cockpits, and used what was common to all. I used Model Cad to draw the instruments, based on the pictures, and printed them with a high definition printer. The bezels are made from various pieces of tubing, ink pens, etc. The metal edge around the cockpit stiffener is a soft aluminum strip, with the “rivets” pressed in with an awl. The control yoke is brass rod with an aluminum top and ring, wrapped with rigging twine. The compass is shaped and hollowed out dowel rod. The inner ring is printed on photo paper, cut out and shaped. It’s held in place with a thin wire through the center. The ammo bin is made of aluminum. I added it because it can be seen through the window above the instrument panel. The bullet belt is from a GI Joe action figure.

rwright142

Very cool looking! Nice detail.

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

You know I think you have done a super job! A question, what did you use to make your inclinenometer? I ended up casting mine with clear resin. I was just wondering what your's was made of..Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving.

smcouch77

rwright, Thanks.You know we're almost neighbors! Maybe we can get together some time
Hi Bob. Your inclineometer looks great! Mine was a lot smaller. I used the cap tubing you use for appling CA. I filled a peice with CA and injected an air bubble with an Insulin syringe.Used syringes are great for a lot of stuff. Like putting that perfect, tiny drop of glue exactly where you want it!
Happy Thanks Giving!
Steve

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

Ah Steve, good idea!.. Mine took some head scratching to come up with something that would look like glass. I even considered finding a glass blower to make me one. As it turned out I worked around it.

smcouch77

Bob, That's the part I find the most rewarding. It' one thing to build a kit, or use pllans where everything is already worked out. Don't get me wrong. I love to build,period. but figuring out how to make it all work is is a new challenge. I'm really enjoying this build. And having so many modelers here willing to help is the icing on the cake.
Steve

abufletcher

I must admit that my own building preferences run to scale structure and less to detailing. Doing the level of detailing you have in your cockpit seems more like a chore (that maybe has to be done) than a joy. On the other hand, I didn't seem to mind drilling 140 0.8mm holes for scale rivets in the reinforcement ring on my Snipe's cowl. Go figure!

Are you hoping to do the rest of your SE5a to the same level of detailing as your cockpit?

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

Don, the joy comes from creating (for me). All the fixtures etc in a cockpit require a different approach than your normal fuse/wing/stab construction. I think of it as an opportunity to learn something new. Each time I make anterior I try to find ways to make it look better and easier to make...Lotsa Fun!

abufletcher

I guess it's the idea of "scale functionality" that appeals to me. For example, the idea of making the joy stick and rudder bar operational (and connecting them to the servos) is totally appealing. Figuring out a way to make a small piece of balsa look like a compass is less so. Guess that's why I've never cared much for plastic modeling either.

Anyway, Steve, back to YOUR model! How much time do you have in it so far? And are the weight limitatons and CG issues for CL and RC similar?

smcouch77

I started building this plane almost two years ago. Some times I get bogged down and have to switch gears. I built the Top Flite kit to work out the bugs. Like what engine to use, angle of incidence for the stab, balance, etc. Also I needed to learn to fly this plane without crashing a two year build![&o] Doing the detailing though has really been a lot of fun. How to make something, what to make it out of. Sometimes I have to Make a special tool to make a part. It's a challenge! And I do intend to detail the whole plane just as real as I possibly can.
CG is pretty much the same for Both RC and CL. CL guys tend to lean toward Nose heavy to smooth out the flight. I'm a stunt man myself, and I expect this plane to perform scale flight. If it can't loop, the heck with it. Weight limits in CL are less than RC. Probably because of the Strain of pulling a heavy plane around a 60' circle. The Top Flite model weighed in at just under 8#. This bird will probably be around 10.
Thats still far under the limit.
Steve

smcouch77

Here's a shot of what I have finished so far. the landing gear and tail section are ready to cover and paint.
I made the stab adjustable, like the full scale. The tail post has an outer tube and an inner rod. The inner rod ,on the full scale, is threaded with a sprocket and chain. The ends of the chain are connected to cables which wrap around a wheel just to the lower left side of the pilots seat. By turning the wheel, the sprocket would move the inner rod up or down as needed, so the pilot could adjust the trim for changing weight.(using fuel, dropping bombs, etc) The stab pivoted at the spar, with the trailing edge moving up or down. The rigging attached to the trailing edge is also attached to the inner rod, so it moves up and down with the trailing edge. Since I couldn't make a chain that small, I cheated. I put a 4-40 socket head bolt in the bottom of the post,held in place with small rings soldered above and below the head. The bolt is threaded into the inner rod. Turning the bolt moves the inner rod from 0 deg to + 5 deg. How's that for scale functionality?

abufletcher

Everything you've done so far looks outstanding and I admire you're desire to do things scale to the greatest degree possible. I'm one of those guys that figure that if I do it the way they did it on the original I can't go too wrong.

What are you using as your references for building and details. Do you have the Replicraft drawings? I love your work on the tail. The skid gear is about the most detailed (and functional) I've seen! I also thought about trying to include functional tail incidence gear on my Snipe but in the end decided it was just going to be added weight and I'd probably never end up using it. I also initially was working out a way to have my tail skid be steerable as on the original and went with a "tube in a tube" approach but again ended up ditching that for weight reasons. I'd feel more comfortable doing all this on a 1/4 scale model.

I still can get my head around how you loop a plane (or "stunt") on CL!

abufletcher

BTW, I see a bit of German on that drawing of the tailplane adjuster. Did an article on the SE5a appear in the old Flugsport magazine?

smcouch77

Abu, That's the great thing about WWI aircraft. They were built the same way we build our models. Or vice versa! I too have found that for the most part, the way they did it on the original is the easiest way.
For reference I have collected almost 1000 pictures from the net. Everything from 904 (the only original still airworthy) to models and replicas. Mostly, I Rely on 904. I bought some CDs and have over 450 Pics of just about every nut and bolt. Also I use the French Reproduction at the Memorial Flight Association web site . I use model Cad to scale everything to my Three views, and then print out scale patterns. I really like the program. It's easy to use and at $50 bucks it has paid for itself by not having to guess about sizes and redo parts.
As for Stunt flying, you just have to try it for yourself! It's a real Blast!
Steve
P.S. Here’s a pic of My favorite Stunter.

smcouch77

I found these drawings in Jane's all The World Aircraft years ago. They were printed in Luftwaffe Magazine in 1918. They captured an SE5a and published detailed drawings of the whole plane, complete with measurements. I can send you a copy if you like.

smcouch77

Here's the rest of the tial feathers. The front spar will pivot with a music wire through a carbon fiber bushing in the fuse. The trailing edge will be joined with music wire and will fit through the adjusting bracket on the tail post. Control for the elevators will be done with double control horns conected to a split push rod. The pictures are of the bottom, to show the scale conection points. Hinges are scale and are made of brass strips.

smcouch77

The landing gear is built the same way as the full scale. I used clear hickory, wrapped with aluminum, and riveted with brass tubing. The cross bars have 2-56 threaded rod epoxied into the ends, and bolt through the legs. The bottom fairing is solid and is attached to the front and rear cross bars. the top fairing is hinged along the leading edge, and is not attached to the rear bar. As the axle moves up, stretching the bungee cords, the top fairing moves up with it. Gravity and wind hold it in place when airborne. I made the top fairing/hinge by bending the aluminum around the wire hinge pin. I then marked both pieces and cut out alternate spaces with a dremel cutoff wheel. The bungee cord in the pictures will be replaced with a larger diameter cord, after painting.

smcouch77

Here's a couple of shots of the tank. I used the same method to find the shape for decking as Abufletcher does. I make a pattern out of card stock and cut and adjust it until I have a good fit. Then I import it into model Cad, and add the details. I print that drawing out as a mirror image, tape it to the back of my aluminum sheet, and punched the rivets with a piece of music wire, rounded on the end. Then I bend the parts and epoxy them to the sheeting.

smcouch77

The radiator is made with a plywood back plate. On that i made two balsa boxes the shape of the cores. I put a slightly smaller piece of 1/64 ply on the sides to match th shape of the full size. I got some brass mesh foil at a craft store.and inset it into the boxes to complete the effect of leaded cores. The bottom and top are made of balsa. The center top cover is hinged aluminum,as on the full scale. It is held closed by the toe engine cowling. After shaping the cover, I cut out the center of the top balsa block and added the brass cap. The shutters are made of aluminum strips. I cut a notch in each end of each strip. then I made brass caps for the ends by cutting a slot in pieces of 1/16 tubing, and sliding them over the slots in the shutters. This forms a small cavity to recieve the brass pin which holds them in the aluminum frame.I put the shutter in place, fill the cavity with epoxy in a small syringe, and insert the brass pins.
The bracket on the sides are 1/64 Ply and the !QUOT!rivets!QUOT! are small pins. The velocity stack for the carb air intake is carved balsa. Total Pieces? 721!

smcouch77

Well, folks, that brings the project up to date. I've just about finished setting up my new shop, and I'm ready to get started on the engine compartment. I'm using a RCV .91 on a Dubro isolation mount. It worked out great in the test plane.
BTW if anyone wants a copy of the rad drawings, let me know and I'll e-mail you a copy.
Steve

Red B.

Steve,
Thank you for sharing the pictures of your superb SE5a build.
In these days when ARF is the norm it is such a joy to see such attention to detail.
Please, keep the pictures coming!
BTW, I wouldn't mind a few pictures of your new workshop.
I am moving house in a couple of weeks time and could use a few workshop ideas.

Regards,
Red B.

abufletcher

Steve, that is all just mind-blowing!!! I don't know if I can take in that many scale detailing shots at one time! Maybe you need to space them out to avoid the modeler's equivalent of overdosing!

Really, I'm going to have to keep coming back to these for a while. And I'm definitely going to have to crank up my level of scale details by several notches! Wow.

BTW, did the SE5a actually have the double control horns like you're using? Seems like an odd arrangment.

smcouch77

Thanks Red. This plane is the most enjoyable build I've ever done. When I get the shop cleaned up a little, I'll shoot you a couple of pics.[:'(]
Abu, I'm really enjoying your build. Your attention to detailed building makes for a first class model, however much " scale detail" you decide to add. I know your planes don't fall out of the sky!
Sorry about the info overload. I just had to get caught up before I could move on. Things will move at a more normel pace (slooow) from here on.
The full scale SE5a used a pully system for the elevators. each elevator had it's own cables. If one got hit by a lucky shot, you still had enough control to get home. There is one pully in the stab, just behind the spar, and one in the fuse,also just behind the spar. So, the cable had to make two 90 deg bends. I tried several ways to duplicate this settup, but at this scale ,nothing worked free enough. More important for it to fly right than look right. with the wire rods on the bottom, I think I can make them look scale enough that no one will notice.
Steve

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

Steve, I really like your radiator treatment. That's one area where I didn't get as detailed as I could have (other areas too!) I've contemplated rebuilding it and adding more detail.. Not sure that's going to happen though but I did "borrow" your sketch if you don't mind.

abufletcher

No. Bob. No! YOUR SE5a is finished. Really. Time to move on, bro. That Camel (and the Albi) are waiting for you. ]