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Byron P-51 Mustang

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Old 12-14-2007, 02:46 PM
  #51
Bud Faulkner
 
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

Guess I better get my P51 down from hanging in the shop and get busy. And I was planning on staying in a lull for a while !! My grandaughters name is Madison and her middle name is May...how cool is this!

Bud
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Old 12-14-2007, 09:34 PM
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

Hey Bud!!! How have you been doing!!! I never knew you had a mustang!!!
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Old 12-15-2007, 04:14 AM
  #53
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

Hunterandjeff were did you find kelso productions at I brought home the 51 today and yea I bought it from gene it needs some work a few parts missing here and there but not bad at all pulled the engine out tonight getting ready to tidy things up.
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Old 12-15-2007, 09:09 AM
  #54
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang


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ORIGINAL: Wayne22

Hey Bud!!! How have you been doing!!! I never knew you had a mustang!!!
Hi Wayne, been a while. I'm good and you? I should be so wealthy to have a mustang! My all time favorite. I'm telling my age but when I went in the air force that's all we had!! I was like a kid in a candy store. I did some art work in the paint program on the one I posted. Mine is a pica kit and was given to me for some build and repair work I did for a friend, he was not a builder and he bought all his planes RTF or ARF and the mustang was hanging in the LHS and he bought it. Has retracts and a big ol supertigre engine. I had planned on doing a lot of scale work on it starting with flite metal but I was sidetracked with house renovations, an SR eindecker, starting a proctor jenny, an electric sailplane and a long lull in the hobby. Some eye problems didn't help either, hence the lull. Glad to see your still at it. Still flying the cub?
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:17 AM
  #55
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

Is anyoneone interested in a complete byro drive unit including the qudra 42 everything is there sxcept the small standoffs between the fire wall and the motormount(2) this would be the byrodrive, props, spinner and engine lmk.I think i am going to hold on to this for awhile I was going to redo thfire wall and put a da 50 in but after reading some more info on drives I have changed my mind.
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Old 12-17-2007, 11:31 AM
  #56
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

blkmerlin1, the guy that is going to make the mustang exhaust is out of portland oregon. the website sis keleo-creations.com. He is very busy making those custom exhausts rght now and will not be able to do it untill April or may. He wants the plane to fit the exhaust though, and I am really aprehensive sending it down to him with the way UPS ans FED EX are with packages. This plane is a collectors item and is worht it's weight in gold so I don't want anything to happen to it.
If you are planning on piecing out your byron P-51 I think that that is not a good idea. you can basically have any 80" p-51 out there but one with the byrodrive is very special. It enables you to swing that huge beautiful 4 bladed prop!!! From what I've read, this plane is not very fast but flys very well - almost trainer like. Hearing the sound of the byrodrive with that four bladed prop is awesome - something that you will not achieve with those two bladed props.
Jeff
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Old 12-17-2007, 12:22 PM
  #57
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

I here ya thats why I changed my mind I no who you are know your sis and I were in FFA togeather you know my dad we use to fly out at the field when I was younger Jeff Bellinger dad is Pete.
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Old 12-17-2007, 12:32 PM
  #58
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

Wow, small world, huh? I can't wait untill the snow goes away. A freind of mine was at the club last week flying and said that the snow was as hard as a rock. Really bumpy too. He had 3 flights untill the rubber band came off the wing and got stuck between the aileron and wing and he knife edged it at 50mph into a chainlink fence totally destroying it talk about a cheese grater!!! He made his snow skiis out of an old bug deflector and they look awesome!!
Jeff
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Old 12-17-2007, 12:54 PM
  #59
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

Quote:
Still flying the cub?
Got 2 of them now and each got out exactly twice this past year...way too many distractions, and projects for other people on the go. I built at least 5 airplanes last year, and still have 4 projects in the queue!
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Old 12-17-2007, 09:25 PM
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

That sounds familiar I just got an omp Edge hybrid off the board to start on the mustang and it is only built no covering or anything else yet. wayne22 did you fly your byron stock or did you do any modification to it also what engine did you have? If possible how about a genral flight report.

Jeff
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Old 12-17-2007, 11:47 PM
  #61
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

I bought it from a guy in Florida. It had the Mustang 50 (Fuji 50) engine that he had converted to glow power. Even with a Klein fuel pressure regulator, I had a heck of a time keeping it from leaning out in flight. I was in the process of gathering the parts to convert it back to gas when I got an offer I couldn't refuse.

It likes to nose over..especailly on rough surfaces, so there is a balancing act between throttle and elevator. Come to think of it, I never got any stick time on mine...my son was flying it and I was the go-fer, engine starter, pit boy, wheel chock etc..... I did get stick time on my friends Byron. He had the quadra 42 in it. The plane was a very nice, solid, predictable flyer...something like a heavier ugly stik. It did the most beautiful slow rolls you could ever imagine!! Landings were a bit of a challenge. Apparently there is some technique involved, and I am not the person to ask about it !
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Old 12-18-2007, 02:20 PM
  #62
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

Thanks for the reply.
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Old 12-18-2007, 02:37 PM
  #63
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

Can someone here take a picture of your flap setup and post it? I need to see how others are doing this. I had an old Futaba retract servo that I thought I could use but I'm getting tons of glitching out of it. Any help with this would be great! Pics would be terrific.

Thanks. . .
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Old 12-19-2007, 10:15 PM
  #64
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

Hey Guys,

Glad to see the thread is still up and running... I had to drop out for a couple of months... bought a house (and I now have my very first dedicated shop !!! WHOOOOOOO HOOOOOO!!! )

I am rebuilding another airplane at the moment and I have not started on the Byron P51 as of yet. However in the time since I have been away from the thread I have conversed with IRONBAY through e-mail about this plane. Even though mine has the engine in it like others on this thread I want to see if I could install the new Fuji 50 elect ignition engine on it. The folks at IRONBAY said that it will bolt up just fine and if the shaft on the Fuji 64 is the same size/diameter that it would work as well.

I was worried about going too big on the engine as I was not sure if the gear reduction system could handle the larger Fuji. I am being told that the gear reduction system is over engineered and will hold up just fine with the larger Fuji installed (the shaft size is the only wild card).

Any build/assembly tips or tricks on the build from others is always appreciated.

On a Scale Note:

I have read the comments where people have said that this plane falls short when it comes to comparing it to the three views. I found so many different copies of 3 views on the P-51 and they all seem to be a little off from each other. So I am pretty sure that with some due dillegane that I can come up with a set of 3-views that will be close enough.

Any thoughts ?????

Rick
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:09 AM
  #65
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

Quote:
Any thoughts ?????
You would have to move the cockpit, change the stab, the cowling, etc etc...

Like I said, standing alone..especially will a killer paint job, it looks awesome. It is only when you compare it to 3 views it comes up short....
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Old 12-22-2007, 11:24 PM
  #66
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

Hi All,

There were a number of Byron 51's around here in the NW about twenty years or so ago. It kinda evolved into two schools of thought regarding this plane. If you like the scale looks of the four blades turning then expect to have moderate performance and marginal aerobatic ability. If you want it to fly more like a Mustang you remember in movies and airshows, then you want to remove the reduction drive and use a 50cc engine with a direct drive standard prop combo and have better performance.

To make the Mustang direct drive Byron use to offer a universal engine adapter that would bolt in-place of the redrive. You might want to see if Iron bay offers this still if you are interested in direct drive and still want the option of going back to the redrive at a later date.

The direct drive Mustang flew allot better but it had a tendency to pitch over on its nose when landing unless you were really careful. Even the reduction drive planes had this problem. Some guys shimmed the mains further forward to move the wheels ahead to help with this problem.

The redrive blades are pretty tough but are thick and take allot of energy to spin up. They can fail and need to be checked periodically for fractures and damage. Another item to be careful about is the hub itself that the prop is bolted to. It was made of mild steel and it wasnt designed for multiple blade strikes/pitch-overs.

A friend of mine was running up his redrive Mustang prior to flight and the whole spinner prop combo flew off and straight forward nearly slicing and dicing Bill Carpenter of C&H Electronics who was visiting our field. He was about 40ft. away at the time. So check that redrive carefully after every blade strike.

Moving the aileron servos out onto the wing is a very good idea. I would also insert a balsa trailing edge into the wings & tail feathers as well as the leading edges of the control surfaces. Because there is allot of vibration to a single cylinder engine, the control surface hinges will eventually come loose if thay are glued into the foam directly as per plans. The balsa provides an extra firm base for the hinges to bed into when epoxying them into place.

These are just a few of the things the guys did around here to fly the Byron Mustang and other Byron models

Good luck with your Mustangs

Carlos G
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:21 PM
  #67
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

Thanks Carlos for the information. Do you know how byron did the direct drive mount did they just add another firewall or was ther actually something that was put in place where the drive system was?
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Old 12-28-2007, 12:11 AM
  #68
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

Lets see... I've had 4 Byron mustangs throught the years. Three with the Q42 reduction, one with the Mustang 50 reduction setup. My guess would be around 500 flights on the lot.
First off, the hub was NEVER made of a mild steel. It was ALWAYS an injected mold heavy nylon piece. One of the reasons the Mustang (with a reduction drive) has so much vibration is due to the hub going out of round where the belts went around it. At one time, there was a guy that you could send your hub to. He would cut out part of the hub inside, underneath where the belts ran and he would machined an aluminum ring that would be glued and press fitted in place. This helped in eliminating alot of the vibration.

Speaking of vibration. I never had one hinge on any surface come loose due to vibration, not one. And speaking of "the plans". The plans\instructions also tell you to first mount the Robart hinge points into longer aluminum tubes before mounting the surfaces. This increases the alount of "bite" that the hinge gets between the two surfaces. If only guys would really READ THE INSTRUCTIONS... There's no need for balsa trailing \leading edges. They won't hurt... just no need.

The ONLY reason a reduction prop would come off is if it were improperly installed from the begining. No amount of prop strikes is going to loosen the prop nut, it is a stationary blind nut that rides in front of a washer and a prop hub bearing. No twisting forces are put on it.
It is however, VERY IMPORTANT to check out the drive\prop in the event of a prop strike. It will jar loose some of the mounting bolts. ALWAYS use RED Loctite on ALL reduction drive mounting bolts and check those bolts every 4-5 flights. I kid you not, they come loose.

My final tip. If you go with the Q42 set up. Get an ignition coil from a G38. Same mounting dimensions but the 38 coil has a little more advanced timing and you pick up an extra 300 or so rpms. Different airplane with this set up.

Oh yea. Nose overs. I flew my 51s SLIGHTLY tail heavy. Didn't effect the flight, helped a hell of a lot on the ground. Keep air going over the elevator, you'll be fine.

One more final tip. That prop disk acts like a big speed brake as soon as you come off power. To the amazement of many pilots, I use to make steep(50 degree) final aproaches at 3\4 throttle and chop it just as I passed the threshold (literally diving at the field)(No flaps) and those planes would instantley slow down and just about land themselves.
Just remember, it's a big speed brake up front.

Good Luck,

M51
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Old 12-28-2007, 01:51 AM
  #69
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

Mustang51 Thanks for the great info on the byrons does the Q42 fly the plane scale like or is it underpowered? Do you recall what type of servos you used for the surfaces I am going to use A rotary drive system for the ailerons and a single servo for the flaps the I am using 2 hs125mg(50oz @ 6volts) wing servos for the elevator mounted in the elvator surface with short linkages and rudder on pull pull.
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Old 12-28-2007, 01:54 AM
  #70
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

here is my Byron. Wanted to put the 4 blade prop drive unit in it...cant find the unit or it is way over priced. I am considering selling it so we will see how it goes.....Nice thread guys
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:39 AM
  #71
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

If you were to sell it what would you ask for it.
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Old 12-28-2007, 11:12 AM
  #72
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

all info and prices posted in the forsale section here on rcu
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Old 12-28-2007, 07:02 PM
  #73
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang


Quote:
ORIGINAL: blkmerlin1

Mustang51 Thanks for the great info on the byrons does the Q42 fly the plane scale like or is it underpowered? Do you recall what type of servos you used for the surfaces I am going to use A rotary drive system for the ailerons and a single servo for the flaps the I am using 2 hs125mg(50oz @ 6volts) wing servos for the elevator mounted in the elvator surface with short linkages and rudder on pull pull.
To anyone that likes Mustangs, particularly the Byron 51, your question generates the same answer. The Byron Mustang, although underpowered, flies at a very nice scale speed, straight and level or in a turn.(cruising speed on a P51 is 275 mph. I figured a Byron flew some where around 50 mph which put it just under a scale cruising speed at 1\5th scale). It does not have a lot of power, there for, its climb outs are slow. It tractors in its climb outs nicely as long as you don't pull too hard on the elevator.
For some reason, guys think a warbird needs to be flying balls to the wall at a blur.
NOT SO.
Let me be clear. The Byron Mustang with the Q42 and reduction drive IS underpowered, but it flies verry nicely, and there is NO more impressive Mustang flying then the Byron with the drive unit, sight or sound.

I think you're making a mistake with your choice and placement of elevator servos. You should be in the 60-70 oz trq range on each elevator half with the servos placed up where Byrons recomends it running push rods. Weight that far back in the tail may very well require a lot more up front to counter it. The Byron should come in around 26 lbs. no more then 28 and the lightest I ever heard of was 25. You dont need to put any more weight in that plane then nec. Keep it light.

The ONLY modification that the Byron Mustang ever needed was putting the aileron servos out in the wing... THAT'S IT(The torque tube set up sucked). FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS!

The ONLY improvement needed was to get a bigger motor on the reduction drive, and stiffen up the blades.

A single giant scale servo on pull-pull to the rudder and a push rod to the tail wheel was all that was ever needed.

-M51


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Old 12-29-2007, 09:13 PM
  #74
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

Hi BlkMerlin,

As I recall it was a combination of black or grey molded glass reinforced plastic flanges and a knurled aluminum tube that bolted in place of the Byro-drive using the exsisting bulkheads that are in the kit. You could shift the aluminum tube fore and aft to compensate for different engine lengths.

Some of the guys here just removed the front half-bulkhead and glassed in a new firewall and added plywood box to tye in the the front end together with the rest of the airframe.
They were installing A & M Sachs 4.2 in the front and had plenty of power for most anything you could a imagine a mustang to do. A & M's didnt have much for a muffler and those things would roar down the flight line.

Ahhhh the good ol' days

Carlos G.
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Old 12-29-2007, 09:28 PM
  #75
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Default RE: Byron P-51 Mustang

Carlos Does anyone in you club still have one
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