Mode One

What Albatros is at the San Diego Musium? Is it original or a replica and what model? Is there internet info on it?

allanflowers

It is an Albatros D Va reproduction, quite well done from what I saw. I have not been able to get any pictures of it on the museum website (San Diego Aerospace Museum) but could take some next time I am there. The link below on Proctor's website shows a model which I think is the same color scheme.
http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/p...batros6a-w.jpg

TFF

Sad there are only2 real Albatros DVa in the world one at the Smithsonian the other in Australia.

allanflowers

While I am waiting for my kit to arrive from Europe, I have started working on my garage/studio space by adding some ceiling mounted eyebolts to hang models from. I had six of these plus two shelf mounted thingies for smaller (electric) models. Now I have EIGHT on the ceiling, including the two new ones put up today.
This will take my VK Camel off the building table, making room for the PUP!.
The other eyebolt is reserved for a future project (maybe a 1/6th scale Aerodrome Albatros or AZ Modelcrafters Siemens Shuckert?).
In the meantime, Jeff is getting way ahead of me with his Balsa USA Pup build, featured in another thread here.

FlyerJeff

My Feedback: (5)

I may be getting ahead of you but my model is going to be of the STAND-OFF type, the farther you stand off, the more scale it looks.

abufletcher

The clock only starts ticking the day the kit arrives!

CTDavies

Which hopefully won't be too long now. The kit was mailed mid last week, so expect it to arrive late this or early next week (if it doesn't get stuck in the Christmas mail). Let us know when it arrives

allanflowers

!!
The box arrived from Germany this afternoon. It is complete except for the acid etched parts which are being sent separately as they were on back order when the main kit was being boxed.
With an international shipment, a little damage is not surprising and there was a little. The 1/16" sheet horizontal stab is broken on one side. No problem to fix it and I should be into the build by the end of next week, if I survive Christmas holiday.
The pix of the box is after I removed the misc. packing material and looks kinda empty. In reality, there is a LOT of stuff in there so I will be busy.

abufletcher

Now you KNOW you were supposed to wait until Xmas morning to open that, young man!

CTDavies

Allan,
I'm glad it finally arrived. I would be interested in finding out where it was in the last weeks. Are there any customs or FBI clearance stickers etc on the box?
It was mailed from here in Germany Nov 29 and arrived in San Diego three weeks and two days later using regular (that is non first class) Airmail. Apparently the box arrived in the US on Dec 1st, so it took three weeks to the day to get from point a to point b in the US, which really confused Allan and me. We were both expecting it to arrive much earlier. The big question to all modellers is; is three weeks and two days delivery time too long? Using regular airmail helps keeping the costs down because first class airmail can easily add 50$ to your shipping costs, and then you'll only have it about a week or ten days sooner.
Allan, thanks for the heads up on that stab core. It also looks as if it broke free from the backing sheet so I'm going to have to stick it to a piece of cardboard in future to brevent it from breaking. Enjoy your holidays, and let us all know what you think once you've had time to thoroughly inspect the package.
CT

allanflowers

I found no indication on the box to explain where it has been. On the stab core piece, it wasn't out of the sheet until I took it out but the one end got a little bent. Taping it to a piece of cardboard, or one of the other sheet stacks, might be a good idea for shipping but you can never totally compensate for the Neanderthals who might be handling it along the way.
Tomorrow I will open up the drawings and start to make working copies where necessary. That cowl is very nicely detailed, by the way.

allanflowers

Okay... I just did an inventory of the kit contents. Took over an hour. LOTS of sheets/parts in that box. My legs are sore.
I notice all the wood is cut with a router rather than laser, which is fine. A few times I thought there were parts missing but found the parts on that sheet loose in a bag. Of course the acid etch parts are coming in a separate shipment, hopefully within the week.
This kit has a zillion wood parts but makes no attempt to provide all the metal hardware. Even the axle and some of the LG parts will have to be provided by me. I think there will be some other "builder provided" parts as well, once I get into it.
The cowl, as mentioned before is nicely done, complete with little bumps to indicate rivets. I will probably aluminum foil this part for a bright look. My photo of it looks funny because the static electricity on it picked up a lot of sawdust in my shop. Maybe it is time to vacuum?
On Weds. I will make copies of a few of the drawings to build over. The drawings, by the way, are really nicely done, not like your usual fuzzy thick-lined hand-drawn plan drawings with the wood grain shown on every shaggy part. The details are obviously very well thought out and carefully delineated. These drawings are masterpieces and I don't want to cut them up anymore than necessary. I may draw over them with some roll vellum if commercial prints are not accurate to size.
There are lots of decisions to make before I get going, like how to do the aileron servos. On the drawing they are powered by a single standard size servo mounted in the fuselage driving pushrods and bell cranks. The upper wing ailerons are connected by a thin pushrod in a tube (from side to side) and connected to the lower ones with 1mm wire rod. This is a very scale way to do it but I might consider twin mini servos in the lower wing instead. Frank Sopwith did that on the CD Scaledesigns prototype and that's how I did my VK Camel too.

FlyerJeff

My Feedback: (5)

Man looks like fun to me!!

Looking forward to your build.

Merry Christmas !!!!!

allanflowers

Jeff, you're getting way ahead of me with your Pup. Slow down!
Actually I am watching it daily and, by leading the way, your build will be a big help.
Unfortunately I have to get some components like fuel tank, brass tubing, music wire, etc. before I can really get going.

abufletcher

Lots of stuff you can start on right away!

A Merry Christmas, BTW.

FlyerJeff

My Feedback: (5)

I know what you mean, I am in a holding pattern until my motor and servos come in.

allanflowers

I have thoroughly reviewed the drawings now and there are several major areas I want to resolve on this build.

- Fuel tank capacity
- Aileron servos & linkages
- Tail skid design & fin mounting
- Servos & tail linkages vs pilot figure
- Landing gear geometry

The plans call for a 6 oz. fuel tank and I don't think that is enough. A 10 oz tank would be okay but if I can't find one that is narrow enough, I will have to modify the tank compartment - a change sure to affect the other components in that area.
Aileron control is designed with a single standard size servo in the fuselage. I will probably use twin minis, one in each lower wing. The setup for this is well known territory and I did the same thing on my VK Camel.
Another issue is the fuselage rear. The aircraft I am thinking of recreating is the replica at the RAAF museum in Australia which has a tail wheel, among other changes from the original Sopwith design. This added weight should be offset by making some changes in the fin mounting and tail post, where weight savings may be possible.
I want to have a half pilot, not just a head and shoulders. This will conflict with the control setup as designed. Moving the control linkages is a very difficult thing to do and this is probably the most challenging area. The small and rather forward access hatch compounds the problem.
I want a more scale-accurate landing gear- with half axles swinging from the center. This is fairly easy and I have a good idea of how to proceed.

abufletcher

Chris and I ended up modifying the tank area on the Snipe to accommodate a wider selection of tanks. This involved reducing the width of the bay containing the aileron servo but there's still enough room for the servo arm movement needed. But if you're going to put the servos into the wings (as Frank did on the prototype Pup) then modifying the tank walls will be no problem.

The Snipe also has the single servo in the fuse. Aesthetically I like this solution in that it mimics the way things worked on the full scale. But Frank was having some problems with the pushrods. I'm hoping I won't find the same problem on my Snipe -- but am (mentally) prepared in case I need to do some last minute surgery to install servos in the wings. My preferred solution would be two servos in the fuse but there's not much space.

This is also a problem on the Snipe. I was able to reroute the cables downward to some degree (using eye screws and some carbon fibre rods as guides) but still the control cables would have to run "through" a pilot figure's chest. There's also the problem of the cabane strut crossbeam running across the forward cockpit area. After a few emails with Chris, we decided that there was no "retroactive solution" this problem at this stage so I'm just going to camouflage it a bit by painting it to make it look like it belongs there. Since I can't really do a full cockpit anyway (too much important stuff in there (like the tank walls), I suppose it doesn't matter much.

Yes, I definitely wanted to do scale and functional gear on my Snipe. I figured this might be my only chance to do that funky Sopwith gear. It's not really very hard (once you master the silver soldering) and I was able to use the music wires that came with the Snipe kit as the basic frame.

abufletcher

BTW, Allan, I've noticed that you have the PM feature blocked. It would be great if we could meet up at the Aerospace musuem while I'm here in Southern Cal (until Jan 4th). If you're interested send me an email at [email protected] so we can arrange something. I know things are pretty busy for everyone this time of year.

CTDavies

Allan and Abu,
The 6oz tank works great on our Pup. We cruised it around for nearly half an hour before the damn thing was empty after we failed to land it on idle. For some reason I just like those strong squarish Slec tanks which I have been using since the mid eighties without any problems whatsoever.
In my mind I have already abandoned the closed loop aileron controls for all our models but changing everything takes time, because you're dealing with a domino effect on changes; if you change the drawings you'll have to change the milling files (well in most cases anyway), then you have to change the handbooks etc etc.
I used the closed loop system for the first time on my Triplane many many years ago, with great success. This was before I had a computer radio, way before I even knew about differential controls etc. On my VK Camel the top ailerons where not connected so I could push the top one down and the rod between the top and bottom one would flex allowing movement and once that rod had passed that moment of resistance the top aileron would just flap down and stay down. That was my pet hate on my Camel and was one of the reasons it wasn't used very often. I don't really know if my Pup has the same problem 'cause Frank built in the radio and it's still at his house right now. I just didn't feel confortable with the top aileron not been 'held' in both directions.
The best way of getting the empenage controls out of the pilot's way is by routing everything down to the fuse floor like Abu did on his Snipe. But as Abu knows by now, I like to keep things simple. Re-routing the control lines would mean adding extra bends and kinks. So far not many Abu's and Allan's have been building my kits and from what I've heard, nobody else has wanted to make changes here. I consider my kits as sport class kits with true scale outlines, fairly easy to build with good if not great flying characteristics. There not supposed to be 1/6th scale versions of Proctor's museum line.
But if someone comes up with the ultimate solution here, I'll be glad to incorporate it in future versions.

abufletcher

I like the look of them too, but they are not readily available. I've never seen one in any of our local Southern Cal hobby shops, though I know they are available online from places like Hobby Lobby and Tower. Around here it seems to be mostly DuBro and Sullivan tanks available.

That's probably a good idea. As I said, I like the idea of the closed loop idea but we'll have to see how it works out on the model. Eliminating the top loop certainly simplifies field assembly. On the other hand, putting the ailerons in the wings means using thicker (non-scale) rigid connections between the upper and lower ailerons.

I can live with the compromise on a 1/6 or even 1/6 scale model. And actually it was pretty easy to redirect the wires down a couple of inches. I was able to move the rudder cables completely out of the way (off to the side) and the elevator cables were lowered by about 2" inches. A test shows this all works without any binding. Moving the cables all the way down to the "floor board" however might be a real challenge.

The problem is that these models look so damn good that it's hard not to want to take it "all the way."

allanflowers

Abu, it would be great to meet up at the Aerospace Museum. I will e-mail you right away on this. I don't know why the PM thing is that way.
I have been rereading the Snipe build (SEVERAL times) because I know you went through most of the same issues that I am. Having the aileron servos in the wings helps with the fuel tank and I may look at a mini servo for throttle anyway so the larger tank compartment is just a matter of making the slight shifts. Chris, it is good to know about your experience on your prototype. I still want more than 6 oz capacity but maybe the 10 oz is overkill.
I would like to connect the upper ailerons and had considered a setup on my Camel similar to Chris's. I will see. There is a differential issue on the twin servo setup that might conflict with an upper cross wing wire linkage. Also I found out that a bad landing can wipe out the top wing aileron arms pretty fast. It is easy to repair a dummy link up there but a functional one is another matter.
My LG swing axle will look a lot like your Snipe's, even more than my VK Camel's.
On the pilot figure, I hope to do a shift of cables, not unlike the Snipe's, to get a little more room there. I found the CD design to be logical and mechanically simple and don't want to totally reinvent it.
One change which took the most time on my Camel was recessing the firewall for the Saito 72. Thankfully, Chris must have gone through that years ago and he fixed this very nicely on the Pup design.
I cannot conceive of successfully completing a build like this in the days before these newsgroups. Thanks, Chris and Abu.

allanflowers

Yesterday I received a packet of information from the RAAF Museum on their replica, including a copy of a photo of the original Pup on which they based the replica (thanks, Monica Walsh, Curator of Research, RAAF Museum). It looks like I could model either one although the photo record of the original plane amounts to this one photo, vs many pictures of the replica. The original had no tail wheel, an issue which could be counted either way - ground handling vs historic interest. Other differences include the cooling holes in the cowl (the replica has a radial engine, with cooling holes on the upper half).
Today was "hit-the-hobby-shops" day, gathering brass tubing, music wire and a 10 oz Sullivan Flextank. This tank will require some modifications of the liteply tank box to allow for 1/4" more width and about 1/2" more height. The width change is no big deal but will necessitate using a mini servo rather than full size for throttle. The height modification will force the rudder and elevator servos upward about 1/2". The slightly taller Spectrum digital servos I have wouldn't have fit anyway without some modification.
Because my model will have lots of lithoplate up front, I think I will want to mount the rx behind the pilot, which raises access issues unless I make the cockpit/turtledeck part removable. This is a serious consideration because it adds some structure to support this removable part. On the other hand, the additional access opens up interesting possibilities for the elevator linkage system. I could even relocate the little jackshaft BEHIND the pilot and have a totally clear cockpit area.
... lots to think about.
I also got copies of two of the drawings. They are so good I had trouble telling which ones were which. There was a slight shrinkage (about 5mm in drawing length) so I will probably build over the kit provided drawings for better accuracy.

allanflowers

I have started to cut up the drawings to work over. The pix below show two of them stapled to my building boards, one for the left lower wing, the other for the fuselage - where I intend to start.
One issue for the fuselage is the tail construction, to conform to the RAAF Pup I am doing. The photo below was drawn over in Photoshop, then scaled to model size and printed out to compare the kit with the actual aircraft. I have started a rough layout of that area (also shown below). The tailwheel turns out to be 1" in 1/6th scale, which is easy to get. The tail skid has its pivot forward from the kit design so I will make that modification, setting its pivot from the rear rudder mount post rather than from the tail post. Kit design calls for 1/8" brass tubes (3mm) in the fin and fuselage - and 3/32" music wire within the brass tubes. It also calls for a 5mm brass tube for the tailpost.
I will change to a wood dowel for the tailpost. The music wire will become 1/8" wood dowels and the 1/8" brass tubes will become 5/32" aluminum tubes and be only in the fuselage, not the fin part.
I need to layout the new tailskid, its mounting and control wires - which will have to slave to the pull-pull rudder cables, probably using a floating crossbeam with the tailwheel pull-pulls coming off nearer the center to create a better steering ratio than the rudder cables would otherwise provide. The tailskid suspension must also be designed and laid out.

allanflowers

...Actually started making something here. The fuselage doubler (2mm ply) is glued to balsa fuselage side pieces. Then the longerons are attached, followed by the fuse vertical and diagonals. The second side is built up over the first one, making sure to build a right and left one.
First I modified the doubler a little by cutting away some material. This kit has good "bones" and I would like to be able to see a little more of the sides when looking into the cockpit. In the first pix, you can see the modified doubler and the other, not yet cut away. I also had to allow for the modification on the tank box, for the larger tank.
In the second pix you can see the secret to my building with greater accuracy than ever before, in spite of the eyesight deteriorating due to age. If I build with magnifying eyeglasses to the best of my ability, the model will look pretty good with no magnification.