eagledancer

hey guys, i need a bit of help just aquired a nieuport 17 that is damaged and need some specs from the wing plans, i got fuse sheet but no wing sheet. i have a couple questions on the layout of the lower wing panel. i can repair what is here but need a couple measurements to go from
lower wing is swept back, need a measurement of how much sweep it has (lay a straight edge from tip to tip on the rear of wing and measure to center section) also need to know how much to prop up wing tips
thanks guys i know someone out there has this set of plans and can get me those 2 measurements so i can have this bird flying by spring

KitBuilder

Which manufacturer?
I have VK 1/6 scale 17 on order.. should be coming in a few days I believe. I can take a look if the VK kit is similar.
Here's the specs from the site:
http://proctor-enterprises.com/produ...nieuport17.htm

Lucky Dog

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Hello Eagle Dancer,
I'll get you your info. I'm very familiar with that plane. A group of us here in IN had 13 short kits cut from the SAP N-17 plans a few years back. http://bealmear.com/dawn_patrol/nieuport_17.htm Great flying plane!

Hers's a few of pics of mine. I modified it to the Siemems Schukert DI varient. (German copy of the Nieuport)









I've got extra sets of plans too if that would help.

I'll get back to you tomorrow asap.

Cheers,
Mike

Lucky Dog

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Eagle Dancer,
Measurement off the plans show:

2 1/8" sweep at the tips.

Dihedral is 1 1/2" at outermost rib, with center section flat.

Be sure your horiz. stab brackets are anchored well. They are very fuctional.

If there is anything else I can help with, please don't hestiate to ask.

Good luck!

Mike

abufletcher

Great photos Mike!

eagledancer

thank you so much mike, yes i would be interested in that extra set of plans! PM me and we will get together on them. i really want to get this plane flyable again, beleave it or not the guy i got this plane from kept a logbook on it, this old girl has over 400 documented flights! engine was a quadra 42. that logbook was very interesting reading, mike what did you use for flying wires? this one has nylon fishing line with proctor turnbuckles but in reading the long he was constantly adjusting them because of streaching. and from all indications were VERY funtional.
btw great job on yours!!
todd

Lucky Dog

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Thanks Don! Credit goes to Rhonda Shelton for the photography.

Todd,
I'll PM you about plans.

Yes, especially depending on how you fly, the flying wires are functional. Mose of us used Dubro 4-40 pull-pull cable (the nylon coated stuff) and regular 4-40 clevises. This typically hold up pretty well.

Most of us that built them (in our group) have not cared for the design in how the cabanes mount to the fuse, and beefed up or redesigned that area using aluminum stock bolted to the fuse sides instead of the heavy gage piano wire mounted to the formers. How is yours done?

It's heartning to hear that your Nieuport has such a long career. A few in our group who have built them will find that interesting. The history of our 13 has not really been a successful one, if you consider only longevity a measure of success. It has been commented that 13 was a bad number, and we should have stopped at 12 or done 14. Of the 7 completed and flying (6 of those shown on the web site), all have crashed (a few very early in their flying lives) with substantial to serious damage, to total destruction (one three times), and only 3 are still in existence, and only two of those are still flyable, my SSWD1, and Art's captured one (which resides in Texas now). Two more may take to the air this summer, a couple are partially completed but on hold, and I've lost track of the others. However, non of the crashes could be attributed to the design, but to dumb thumbs (in a couple of cases by very competent pilots), errors in building (in one case by a very competent builder, who now works for a major kit producer in the US). And partly to newcomers to giant scale (like me, forgetting that this plane's not a "floater"), and just bad luck with a few odd equipment failures.

I have proposed that the few of us still flying them (or soon to) go in together and purchase back one of the original 13 kits that is yet unbuilt, and burn it as an offering to the Rc gods.

That being said, the "Project" can be considered a success I think, in that it did get some new guys in to giant scale and "Dawn Patrol" flying. While the design of the kit is an old one, and a bit heavy perhaps, it is a sound design. A couple in our group (Art Shelton and Billy Thompson) put theirs to the test in mock dogfights, really putting on a hell of a show on numerous occasions. They can attest to the good flying qualities and general robustness of the design.

Cheers,
Mike

eagledancer

mike, this one has the wire for the cabanes, one area of note i plan on redesigning is the landing gear to a little more scale arangement with functual bungees. i know the man that had this plane before me had problems with this area many times, he rebuilt the lower wing 2 times (this is the third time) and most of the damage has been dumb thumbs one of the wing rebuilds was in his early flying of her (learning curve) and with a wore out quadra 35, he had much more success with a quadra 42 (which i got in the knight twister i bought as a package deal). i do have some work to also do to the center cabanes, the outer ones survived the crash. thank goodness i have a lot of stick time on giant ww1 types including a fokker tripe (flair 1/4 scale) that fokker can be a bit of a tiger on both takeoff and landing, but i have discovered the secret to good takeoffs and landings and almost never have a nose over anymore.
todd

R/C Art

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eagledancer......you're gonna love flying this plane! Mine and Billy's weighed 16-17 lbs depending on whose scales we used.....wing loading was light enough to allow slow stable flight and the design was robust enough to for us to "fly 'em like we stole 'em!" Billy flew his with a G38 and I used a worn out US 41. They had almost identical flight envelopes! If you go to the Hoosier Dawn Patrol site, www.hoosierdawnpatrol.com you can view some pretty good pictures of these planes (and others) and also a short video clip of mine.
If you are interested in building a new one, Don Turnock of www.eurekaaircraft.com has plans and short kits available for this design. (I am tempted to revisit this project!)
If you are going to bebuild the cabanes, you might consider using aluminum (1/8 in by 3/4 in) stock. I found some at Ace Hardware. It can be mounted to the inside of the fuse with 2 thru bolts to blind nuts in a small square (approx 1 in by 2 in) of aircraft ply which were glued onto the outside of the fuse (the design allows this mod to be hidden under the fuse skin).

Lucky Dog

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Just for the record, only two of our group went the bungeed gear route I believe (or at least so far). Unfortunately, both were lost to dumb thumbs, radio or control cable failure very early in their lives, so there was not time to really access the benifits (if any). The rest of us have done okay with the standard gear. Thought is is intriguing to try, as my hardwood struts surrounding my music wire gear have suffed damage. Perhaps I just disproved my whole point.

R/C Art

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Here is a shot of 3 Scratch-A-Plane Nieuport 17s at the Warbirds Over Arkansas fly-in at Hammer Field in 2006.
The first one belongs to Steve Percifield and is done in Polish colors. The next is Bill Thomspon's done up in an Italian scheme and the last one is my version of a captured N17.
These are great flying planes! Make that were great flying planes.......Steve lost his to an undetermined (shot down maybe) radio problem....Billy lost his last year at the Hoosier Dawn Patrol held in Muncie, In at the national flying site when he and I decided to do a mirror image low level photo pass. He flipped his upside down and I settled in above him, well I tried to anyhow........I saw something fall from his plane and then there was a quick dive to the ground (at full throttle) followed by heart wrenching sound and violent re-distribution of his plane back to kit form. Mine survives still today and resides in Texas at Virgil Gonzales' shop.
oh, I almost forgot to post the after picture of Billy's........so sad......

eagledancer

hey mike, thanks to you i now have the repairs done on lower wing, just needs sanding and covering. next will be the landing gear

still havnt heard on the plans
todd

caribefoto

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The link to Eurika takes you to a dead site. Are they under another moniker somewhere else?

Lucky Dog

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Try- http://www.eurekaaircraft.com/ King Arthur kan't spel.

Todd,
Sorry, I haven't had a chance to diog for the plans, I will this weekeknd.

R/C Art

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Todd, Mike is right! I can't spell........I went back and fixed the link in the original text so that the next person using it will get to the right place.

Lucky Dog

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More of our SAP Nieuports. Xmas card I sent out a few of a couple of years back.



Eagledancer,
I've got my hands on a set of plans for you. Send me a PM with your mailing address and I'll get them out to your next week.

eagledancer

pm sent mike
man i love this site! how i remember 20 years ago trying to locate things for scale building when all anyone around was wanting was just the run of the mill sport planes. and at that time there was alot of kits availible mostly sport scale. now things are SO much easier to find even tho less kits availible. and the knowlege base we now have someone someplace knows where to find it or has it.

pochepoche

Hello my name is jose my father and I whanted to build the 1/4 scale nieuport 17 from a plan that one of our friend gave us but is just a old copy of the original plan.
I saw that the company used to supply the pnan was SCRATCH A PLANE but there is no longer such company and i was wondering if you know where can i find a good plane as this one or if you could give me any clue about where to buy it.
i have part of airplane already build but its getting really confusing right now
could you help`me with this one=?

Lucky Dog

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Jose,
Building from plans can be daunting. The Eureka Aircraft Co. is selling short kits of the Scratch-A-Plane Nieuport 17 that might make it easier for you (it did for me).
http://www.eurekaaircraft.com/ They aren't who cut our kits, but from what I've heard, these are better.

The SAP Nieuport, while an older design, is a good flying airplane. If you're not set on building from plans, Balsa USA make a nice Nieuport 17 kit in 1/4 and 1/3 scale. www.balsausa.com

Feel free to ask away with any other issues. This is a good group of folks who are more than willing to help.

Cheers,
Mike