SMUGator

No worries, Scott. We got an unexpectedly beautiful day up here, so I decided to go play golf at the last minute. You would have missed me in either case. Remind me if anyone has signed up to build-up the cockpit kit. If not, I may take a shot a building that up soon. I sent e-mail to the group with some thoughts on this, so if you didn't get it, please let me know and we will get you added to the distribution.

Tom

SMUGator

I'm leaning toward skinning the control surfaces and simulating cloth with primer. With any luck, I'll get it done on my 1/8 in the next couple of weeks and we can take a look and see how we like it.

Tom

Remklep

Just curious, why would you hard-skin and then simulate cloth covering?
Wouldn't all the details of the rudder and elevator-construction be lost?
Or am I misunderstanding something here?

Cheers,

saramos

I've found that when I covered with a fabric material, the look I get is the look I get, with little chance to make any changes. Often, the structure comes out too exaggerated, or is hidden. When you skin, then simulate the look, you can match the look more readily to your docs.
Plus, for me personally, I find when I use a shrink type fabric, I have a tendancy to introduce twists into the surfaces.

Scott

Remklep

I'm sorry Scott, I guess I don't fully understand what you mean by skinning.
Could you explain it to me?
As I understand it, you were going to cover the elevators and rudder with a thin but hard material, thereby losing all scale detail of the underlying structure.

Cheers,

Chad Veich

My Feedback: (60)

No, I will be finishing with actual fabric over the wood structure. If you decide to skin the rudder and elevators with G10 then you won't need the 1/64" plywood skins shown on my elevator above.


Won't be there unfortunately, should be back here by Thursday at the latest. I wanted to push it back so that I could be down there on the 17th and 18th but not for the jet event. That's the weekend of the Planes of Fame airshow! I've only missed a few of those since 1990 but it looks like I won't make it this year.

Well, I'm off gents. See you all in a few days.

Chad

SMUGator

This is a topic that Dave Platt covers in the Detailing and Painting series of videos. His conclusion after years of building scale models is that he could never get iron on or doped fabric to look like the full scale, no matter what he tried to do with the underlying structure. After some experimentation, he concluded that he got more realistic looking results by starting with a solid surface and building up the detail by masking and applying primer over the glassed surface. Tom Pierce is the only person that I've seen do it this way online. You can see his approach on his FW 190 build [link=http://www.tompierce.net/190/html/paint/ctrl_surf_details.htm]here.[/link] I'll be doing it this way on my 1/8 TF build in the next few weeks, so I plan to take a look at those results before I make a final decision on which way to go. I'll point you to those photos on another thread when I get to that point.

Tom

Remklep

Hmm, interesting.
I have seen Tom Pierce's website, in fact I have downloaded both the FW190 and the Dauntless builds for the great tips and techniques he uses.
I am building the tailfeathers the comming days, I'll cover the elevators with fabric to see how they turn out.

Cheers,

Remklep

Gents,

I am compiling a list of suitable engines, complete with size, weight, recommended props and rpms.
In the list so far I have 12 engines from Laser, Zenoah, DA, Saito, OS Max and YS.

If any of you have suggestions for more brands let me know and I'll add them to the list.
I will publish the list in a week or so, when I have some more options.

Cheers,

Riddle4U

Chad, I'll also cover tail control surfaces ( SIG koverall probably). I like Tom Pierce's method also (heavier). If you look at the nice photos posted of the tail (full size) by several here, you can see the surface comes out pretty flat on the real one. I think that will likely be duplicated with our open structure as it stands. One can still cut thin strips of covering material and iron on in the scale locations as per the real reinforcement strips. As Dave Platt says often, it may be more important to "look right" than to be right, so takes yer choice.

Edit: I just looked at all the full scale tail pictures again here. It looks like they use a batten of some kind over the fastened rib areas (not sewn). It doesn't look much like Mr. Pierce's Dauntless detailing. I'd just cut narrow strips of thin styrene, and add reinforcement strips of covering (we need a collection jar for everyone's $.02).

One new thing I haven't seen a Corsair yet where the fabric sags on the wing (wish I did). It is a fun effect, but doesn't show on any pictures I've seen. That said, I will use fabric in those areas also. If all else fails, I still like the original designers choice for fabric on a weight basis. We can make a museum piece out of our models and have it snap into the ground due to weight alone. Every area we add weight for scale effect needs equal diligence to manage it in other areas to make up for it. Very doable in my opinion, particularly at this scale. G10 is heavy in my opinion. When it comes time to balance our models, I just don't hope to see people adding lead to the nose on this one. One ounce in the tail is six ounces to balance in the nose (or so). I love Pierce's tutorial, it is stock scale technique that goes back a quarter century. I love that he has shared some of those techniques so that we can all carry on, and create great looking models. His Dauntless was too heavy (he thought). One might have extended the life of that model with smoother experienced flying, as he admits (I may have done worse). We will all benefit in making the lightest model we can. That is my criticism on the G10 idea is all, and I appreciate your thoughts Tom! Just adding to our collaboration, and not intending to disuade anyone on preferences at all...go for it! - Eric

SMUGator

You shouldn't look at Tom Pierce's approach and try to apply it step by step to the current project. It's just the best online example I have seen of simulating cloth surfaces on a solid surface. I find that I like what Platt has to say about this, but I've never done it. That will change in a couple of weeks and we'll see how I do.

Edited: As for our project, we don't have to guess. One guy can simulate a couple of bays with primer and another guy can do the same with cloth, then compare. Looks, weight, etc. That's one thing I like about this project. There are a lot of guys that have some ideas and things they've been taught. We can compare things side by side in a controlled environment and then each can form their own opinion about the trade-offs. I did a lot of hard work on the tailwheel, and I think Scott has already come up with some different ideas. That's how progress happens, but you have to be willing to experiment, and throw some things in the trash once in a while.

Tom

saramos

I've always liked trying something different, but also like collaboration. This can lead to variations, but I don't think they're mutually exclusive. As has been said many times. There's more than one way to skin a ca.., uh, Corsair[)]

Scott

Riddle4U

I am all for all trying different things..just giving my thoughts is all. Concurring.

Riddle4U

Chad, sounds like you're out of town for a bit. If you can, is there anything you could show on the fuselage..vis a vis optional stringers or other thoughts? I will send you compensation on the tail kit immiediately; sounds like nothing major on Richard's beta build as far as issues. I am waiting on bench sander to shape TW parts now.

I want to thank Tom and Scott and others on posting TW progress (not to leave anyone out). Great work, and I am sure it will help bring others up to speed. Very inspiring results!

Special thanks to Sam, as he sent me some spacers, e.t.c. for the TW. I hope to show my progress soon.

Good luck, and best wishes to all.

SMUGator

I'm heading down to the Museum of Flight tomorrow on a little photo recon mission for a couple of other RCU members. If there are any particular detail shots of either the FG-1D or the F2G-1D that you don't find [link=http://cid-be7e1d3a4cb3f1fb.spaces.live.com/default.aspx]here,[/link] just let me know via e-mail or PM. As far as building, pretty quiet on my end. Finished kitting Chad's tailwheel parts and getting my 1/8 ready to glass hopefully this weekend if the weather will cooperate.

Tom

Remklep

A little update, I started building the tail feathers.
It took quite a while to make all the parts on the cnc router, but I'm almost finished, just the 6mm and 10mm balse to go.

I have already build the vertical stabilizer, it's drying, after which I can add the sheeting, and the rudder has all ribs installed on the left side.

Chad's CAD drawings are really excellent, it all fits perfectly!

Danny

Chad Veich

My Feedback: (60)

Eric, I will try and get some PDF files made tomorrow of the updated fuselage drawings showing the stringer placement. I've got all the fuse formers cut, save for a firewall, but have not had time to start gluing it up yet.

I will also try and get the tailwheel drawings updated to show the minor changes to the tail hook actuating arms.

I'm back in town now but only through the weekend. Due to some unforseen issues I have to return to LA on Monday and probably won't return home until Thursday. I will be doing some laser cutting on tail kits tomorrow and will keep everyone informed on progress but I doubt I will get any kits completed to the point of being ready to ship. Maybe if I could work on them Sunday but my wife has gently reminded me that Sunday is Mother's day!

Chad Veich

My Feedback: (60)

Here are a couple of images of the fuse with stringers added. The plans are obviously not anywhere near complete but this gives you an idea of where I'm at and what I'm thinking. As stated previously, the stringers are optional as well as your choice to build the fuselage in two halves (upper and lower) or build it on a suspended crutch as a single unit.

SMUGator

Looks from the drawings like you may already be thinking about designing in the rails for the optional sliding canopy on formers 6-8. May make sense to prototype this and incorporate it into the drawings to save everyone having to fiddle with it independently.

Tom

SMUGator

Chris and I did end up shooting quite a few more photos of the Museum of Flight Corsairs today. My main goal was to fill in a couple of gaps in my collection that were causing me some questions on our 1/8, but we also shot quite a few details that we've been talking about on here like the profile of the cowl and the details on the control surfaces and wings. Let me know if you need hi res versions of anything you see [link=http://cid-be7e1d3a4cb3f1fb.spaces.live.com/?lc=1033]here.[/link]

Cheers!
Tom

Chad Veich

My Feedback: (60)

Well gents, I made good laser cutting progress yesterday but, unfortunately, I'm back to LA for the upcoming week. I managed to get all the 1/16", 1/8", and 1/4" balsa parts cut for the first 6 tail kits. That's probably 75% of the total parts. I will get back to it this coming weekend and I should be shipping the first six kits come early next week if no problems arise. Once again I apologize for the delays. I had no idea that the job would require me to be away from home near this much. I will try and check my email and this thread at least once a day but I won't be of much use beyond that.

Tom, I would like to incorporate the sliding canopy and would be happy to design it in from the start with the help of you guys who have already done it.

SMUGator

Let me know when you are at a point where you are happy with the general design of the formers in that area and I'll cut a set and mock something up for comment.

Tom

SMUGator

Couple of thoughts for those in the process of building tail wheels -

After kitting Chad's parts, I think I would do the shock tube a little different going forward. Rather than crimping the base, I think I would make a round spacer like we use in the steering tube to close the bottom, and then drill and solder a PC board flange to make the tab to attach to the shock base and Part B. Crimping the base works ok, but it's tricky to do it well without deforming the bottom of the shock tube too much.

Also, double check the dimensions of the shock tube and the spacers on the plunger. I think the shock base may be one size too large in the drawings. I'll double check it with Chad when he gets back, but I had to modify the bottom of his shock plunger bottom to get the fit perfect.

PM me if you have questions.
Tom

chilie

I am putting the finishing touches on my 1/8 scale version of the tailwheel. I found that when I crimped the shock base, that the brass would distort. The way I got around the problem was to insert a solid aluminum roundbar into the shockbase as I crimped the bottom. This provided the support to the brass that was needed. I would suggest that you make sure the solid stock is long enough to get some pliers around since it might get wedged in there pretty tight. The brass still flares out where its crimped, so after sanding the flared brass off, I added a little solder to fill in the small hole that would be exposed on the side from the sanding. All works well at that point.

I also used this same technique for bending the catapult hook. On my 1/8 scale version, when I would attempt to do the 160 degree bend, the hollow brass would distort and/or kink. I just cut a solid piece of aluminum and slid it inside the hollow brass and was able to bend it with no problems. Obviously, that piece of aluminum is permanent

Remklep

Hey guys,

Thought I show you my progress on the tail.
The vertical stabilizer is almost ready, I just need to add the piece of balsa to the top of it, that sits in front of the rudder.
However, I am not going to make it out of balsa like in the plans, but I will make it in 2 halves with a piece of 0.4 (1/64") plywood inbetween, so the edge will be strong and stay strong.

In the second photo you can see I added some scrap balsa to support the 1/64"ply, had I not added the balsa, there would have been a gap below the 1/64" ply...

I'm off to Bangkok for the next 6 days and then some quality time with the girlfriend, so I won't be able to much over the next 10-12 days.