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1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Old 04-04-2008, 10:08 PM
  #1  
rwright142
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Default 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build



For this build several individuals have planned, researched, and collaborated with one goal in mind - to build the finest, most detailed, and as historically accurate a Corsair they can.
To achieve this goal, we will be using Royal plans, engineering drawings from Vought and others, manuals, and CAD drawings created by a member of this thread, just to name a few. Parts will be supplied by several sources included some of members of this build team who have unselfishly offered their time and talents.

There will be many Corsairs built by many builders and of different variants. Some builders will closely follow plans, some will make changes, and some will incorporate add-ons such as navigation lights, canopies that open/close, etc. Each builder will also decide on their own markings, colors, weathering, etc. and many will post their progress here for others to view.

Since this is a collaboration, you will see Corsairs in various stages of build. You are welcome to join in at anytime and we welcome your input but we do have a few requests:
1. For the novice builder: the information presented here may be overwhelming. Before posting questions, send a personal message (PM) to the member of the build team whose post you wish to question. This will help keep the posts down to a manageable level. If the builder determines the question will benefit others then your question will be presented to the public.

2. For the advanced builder: any tips, techniques, suggestions, etc. you wish to offer will be greatly appreciated. It is your insight and experience that will help to make these Corsairs great.

3. All questions and comments are welcome however if you wish to ask something of one individual directly, please use the PM system when appropriate.

Our intent is to build in steps as outlined below:
1. Empennage
- Tail Wheel
- Horizontal Stabilizer
- Elevators
- Vertical Stabilizer
- Rudder

2. Fuselage
- Detailed Cockpit

3. Wings
-

Some steps will have mini-steps. For example, some builders may want to include scale hinges, whereas some may decide to leave them as per the plans. As I've already mentioned, each builder has their own ideas for the final outcome of their Corsair. The following posts will present many alternatives so that any future builder can make their own decisions and will have reference material available.

In the posts to follow, each builder will identify themselves and will include their own personal vision of their Corsair. We hope you find our posts enlightening, informational, and enjoyable. We also hope they encourage you to get involved and become as fond of building and flying as we have, if not more so.




Range of Movement of Control Surfaces
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=7504788

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Old 04-04-2008, 10:13 PM
  #2  
rwright142
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

My Corsair will be a F4U-1A and it will be modeled after #3 flown by LT (jg) Jim Strieg who flew with VF-17, the Jolly Rogers
Some of the details I would like to incorporate are:
A highly detailed cockpit.
An articulated pilot - hand on the throttle will move to simulate power management and the hand on the stick will move with elevator and aileron changes. His head will turn with aileron movement.
The canopy will open and close.


I'm looking forward to learning a lot and having fun.

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Old 04-05-2008, 03:07 AM
  #3  
abufletcher
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

I believe there is already a thread like this on the Warbird forum that has already run into the hundreds of pages and includes an index at the top.
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Old 04-05-2008, 03:32 AM
  #4  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

ORIGINAL: abufletcher

I believe there is already a thread like this on the Warbird forum that has already run into the hundreds of pages and includes an index at the top.
You are partially correct. The thread that you mention is devoted to a kit build of the Top Flite Giant scale Corsair. This is a modified plans-built project at a 1/6 scale.

Tom
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Old 04-05-2008, 03:33 AM
  #5  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Dejavu, Mister Wright! Checking in again..and saluting. You got charged with the duty..darn it! Okay, everyone else report or expect dog rations!

I'll eventually put a little information about the prototype version, and pilot here..
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Old 04-05-2008, 03:43 AM
  #6  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Glad to be part of this project! I'll be joined on the build by my friend Chris (rollo) who is in the shop working on things quite often as well.

We will also be modeling an F4U-1A - BuNo 17777 (or trip seven). Here's a bit more on why I'm attracted to this particular aircraft. If you look at a lot of the documentation, you will see that the aircraft was flown by 1st Lt Phillip C DeLong, VMF-112. As you dig deeper, you find that Lt DeLong did fly the airplane, and he also recorded kills in at least seven other Corsairs. Trip Seven met her end as a result of a rollover on 12/17/1943 while being flown by LT DJ Moore of VMF 214.

Updated: Well, scale documentation can be quite interesting, and it turns out that there is some ambiguity about who really crashed Trip 7. My initial research of the flight logs indicated that Trip 7 was crashed by Lt Donald J (Deejay) Moore. Lt Moore flew two tours and scored three kills with the Blacksheep prior to going missing on a mission over Rabaul the following January. A more recent book that I've just gotten gives a different end to the story. "The Black Sheep" by Bruce Gamble describes the crash as follows on p. 296-297:

Then a few hours after Boyington's trip to Munda on Dec. 16, George Ashmun and Bob Bragdon brought hteir divisions into Torokina after a 3-hour Cherry Blossom patrol. Denny Groover, the last one down, got off the Marston mat, but he hit a gun emplacement and his Corsair flipped. " As it was going over, my only thought is that I was going to get my damned neck broke when this thing hit", he recalled. Fortunately he had lowered his seat enough that the armor plate and empennage cushioned the blow, but the vertical stabilizer was crushed flat. A few Marines helped the groggy pilot scratch his way out of the cockpit, then relieved him of his .45 and wristwatch. The mere fact that he had overturned two Corsairs in eleven days might have made a more superstitious pilot think about the side numbers of his planes. The first accident occurred in number 888, the second in number 777.
After flying both tours with the Blacksheep, Denny "Quill Skull" Groover returned to Macon, GA, got his law degree and practiced as a trial lawyer for the remainder of his career.

I like that Trip-7 represents the real nature of these aircraft. They were blunt instruments in a hostile environment. They got passed back and forth between squadrons as situations dictated. I still don't know that she was doing in Lt DeLongs hands with VMF-212 a couple of months earlier. Trip-7 has it's numbers randomly stenciled on, and has mixed markings applied in the field. She is interesting, because an ace happened to land in her a few times, but she came to a rough end in a bad landing and saved the life of a guy that went on to return to the states and have a long and properous career. For me this really tells the story of the role these airplanes played.

Comparing the two drawings below will also give you a sense of how far off the "scale" documentation can be on these aircraft. I'll be using the Paul Matt drawings as my primary reference and using the enlarged Royal 1/8 plans as secondary "how-to" information. The scale outline on the Royal plans is quite good, but I differ a bit with them on the best way to build an airplane from an engineering point of view.

We're just finishing up a 1/8 TopFlite Corsair that some of you may have seen in the 1/8 TF Corsair Mods thread on the Warbirds and Warplanes forum. We're excited to take the lessons learned and research from that project and apply them to a more true scale Corsair build at a size that will support the mods with a little bit more wing area.

At a minimum I'll do:
Scale tailwheel based on the Earl Aune design - done on 1/8 by Rollo - already in primer for this project
Scale operational cowl flaps - done on 1/8, but can be improved
Cowl top half removable at scale location - done on 1/8
Sliding canopy and scale cockpit - in progress on 1/8
Scale hinging throughout - done on 1/8, but can be improved
Custom lighting throughout - done on 1/8 by Rollo. If Rollo will sign up, we may take the lead on this part.
No exposed linkages unless in a scale location - done on 1/8, but I'm only about 80% happy with my work on the smaller one.

I'll tell you up front that I won't get everything right on the first try, so don't read my posts like a "how-to" manual. There will be some proven techniques in there, and you will also find some areas where I am making it up as I go along. And I will occasionally rip things apart and start over. So look for me to be on the fringe trying some new techniques to try to get this right. I have some particular passion about the gear doors as I haven't seen them done right (i.e. opening to the scale locations) in an elegant way. If I've missed it, please point me in the right direction because this is one of my top goals on this project.

This will probably be my first gasser, so I'll need some advice from the rest of you on that. I'm very excited about working with the other members of this build including both friends and neighbors here in the Seattle area and Corsair fans around the world. My shop is your shop for the next few months.

Tom
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Old 04-05-2008, 04:38 AM
  #7  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Tom, outstanding introduction! I really enjoyed that, and l'll stand by and hopefully check out similar intros. and hope we'll all appreciate it before we return to the hard work at hand. I'll have a short one about my pilot, and one plane he flew briefly. Maybe, RW tell us about Streig?
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Old 04-05-2008, 07:16 AM
  #8  
rwright142
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

I agree - excellent intro Tom. I can't wait for the others to check in.


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Old 04-05-2008, 07:22 AM
  #9  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Tail wheel

It''s time to begin documenting the tail wheel build.

In early 1944, a longer tailwheel leg was installed to raise the tail, and reduce the directional stability problem. This also give the pilot better forward visibility for takeoff and landing.
The tires came in two types - hard rubber and inflatable. I''ve attached pictures to show the various types.

I will be using the shorter version because that is what the subject of my model had. Earl Aune originally made mine but most of the others here are making their own and will show their work.


Sources:
f4ucorsair.com
Vought

Tailwheel pictures (L to R)
Long, hard rubber
Long, Inflated
The short version
The short version per Vought engineering drawing
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Old 04-05-2008, 08:51 AM
  #10  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

just letting everyone know I am lurking around here as well
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Old 04-05-2008, 09:59 AM
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Sam reporting here. I haven't decided on the particular plane, but it will most likely be from VF 17, simply because I like the scheme and insignia. I'm leaning towards Blackburn's "Big Hog". I am currently trying to finish up a TFGS Corsair which I'm modeling after BU88391, a Goodyear FG1-D that is currently in New Zealand, performing at air shows. It is in the scheme of VF 17, number "8".
I've got a couple of tailwheel builds underway, hoping that my oldest son will join me on a dual build. I'll be using a gasser, but am not sure what engine yet. I"ve got a 3w-50 I may use. I'm hoping to be able to incorporate a sliding canopy with a detailed cockpit and nav lights. As I watch/participate and see how you other guys are adding scale details I will be incorporting many of your ideas.
I'm ordering some more PC board and if any of you need some parts for your tailwheels PM me and I'll see what I can do. I'm basically just using my drill press and hand file as a makeshift lathe, but so far it's turning out acceptable parts. I have noticed that there is a size difference in the parts between Chile's drawings and Luke's. I've been using Luke's as patterns and Chile's for reference.
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Old 04-05-2008, 01:10 PM
  #12  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Here are some in progress photos from my tailwheel build. I did use chilie's drawings and cut sheet as well as Luke's step by step build thread [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=7114895]here.[/link] I noticed some of the size differences that Sam mentioned, as well. I've sent my build notes from those drawings via e-mail to everyone on the project I think. If you don't have them, please send me a PM with your e-mail address and I will forward them. If I do get more clarity on who owns the tailwheel design, we may or may not be able to share the drawings more freely. That's a bit of a question mark for me at the moment. Here is my near-finished product. The following posts will show a few work in process photos as well.

Tom
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Old 04-05-2008, 01:22 PM
  #13  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Hey Tom, I notice in your pics above and also when I lay the CAD drawing of the tailgear over the Matt drawings that they don't match up very well. Even though you've built the short tailgear the entire assembly is still much longer than what is shown on the plan. Are we concerned that this will effect the stance of the airplane on the ground or is it a matter of the Royal and Matt drawings not being accurate?

More clarification - It appears to me as though arms A and B and the 3/16 angled brass is all much longer than scale with the result being that the entire tailwheel strut/fork assembly is much further from the pivot point than it should be.
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Old 04-05-2008, 01:55 PM
  #14  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

I did notice that. After nosing around on this a bit more, I've concluded that the plan view is incorrect. See more below.
Tom
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Old 04-05-2008, 02:12 PM
  #15  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Here are the cut tailwheel parts as well as some progress on the shock. For those of you that don't have a lathe, you can buy 9/32 aluminum tubing and then use JB Quik to add an 11/32 brass sleeve at the bottom of the shock plunger.
Some potential changes that I've recommended to those using chilie drawings are:

1) Steerer tube that attaches to fork - I built as drawn at 3/16, but might have left at 1/8.
2) Bearing tube that attaches strut assembly to bulkhead plate - I'll definitely build this at 1/8 and not 3/16
3) I think the spacer disks that go inside the outer tubing that houses the steerer are missing on the cut sheet.
4) I decided to mod the top of the shock plunger to attach directly to the extension arm the way Luke did it in one of his early build threads.
5) The wheel forks are not drawn to scale. They need to be reshaped prior to adding the microballon resin. I didn't get mine perfect, but they aren't too bad.
6) The downtube needs to be shortened below the forks.
7) The Parts "A" and "B" are slightly long as well.

I also added a bushing at the top of the fork to mate up perfectly with the bushing at the bottom of the down tube that supports the wheel assembly. I found that this 1:1 mating between the two parts gaving me a frictionless action and a nice clean look. I photographed Wenol as well. It's a fine metal polish but good for lots of things including polishing scratches out of canopies. When I have two metal tubes like the wheel post assembly and the shock assembly that need to work well together, I put a toothpaste size dollop of Wenol on the mating surfaces and work them back and forth for a few minutes. Afterward the parts are like they were born together. I use a little acetone or denatured alcohol to remove the lovely grey sludge that results.

I also finally found a use for the huge block of balsa that Top Flite sends you to make ailerons and flaps - it makes a lovely starting point for the tailwheel jig.

More to come...


Tom
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Old 04-05-2008, 02:17 PM
  #16  
Chad Veich
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

It also just occurred to me that the CAD drawing shows the strut unloaded while the Matt drawings show it under load which makes up for some of the difference in length.
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Old 04-05-2008, 02:32 PM
  #17  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

ORIGINAL: Chad Veich

It also just occurred to me that the CAD drawing shows the strut unloaded while the Matt drawings show it under load which makes up for some of the difference in length.
It won't really matter whether it's loaded or not on the angles you see on the plans. Those triangles are all hard-welded at fixed geometry. All of the flex occurs in the triangle formed by Part A, Part B and the shock. You can clearly see the difference here I think, and interestingly the difference exists on both Chilies drawings and Luke's drawings. Chilie got the fork angles right according to Luke's sketches, but both are measurably wider than the plan view. So if we want to be scale, we need to determine which reference angle for the forks is correct. Updated: The more I look at it, I am getting fairly certain that the plan view is incorrect. If you look at the way it's drawn, the pivot point would not be in the right place and the angle between the lower braces and "part B" would be 10 degrees. Both drawings that we have and the reference drawing that Richard posted above have that angle at 20 degrees. I need to validate a few more tings, but I may not have to rebuild afterall. I'm doing some more side-by-side comparisons of photos and drawings this afternoon, so more to come on this later. Updated: I enlarged Richard's drawing to match the size of my build and the geometry is pretty much spot on. The only difference I can see is that I have a little bit more rake in my forks and I have a little bit too much sweep in my downtube. The downtube angle at Part B should be 70 degrees or 110 degrees depending on which side you measure, and I'm at about 115. I don't think I'll deconstruct it to fix that. Also, if my overall length is close, a 2 1/2 inch wheel would be closer to scale. Still wondering if my wheel build may be slightly too large, but if so it's only by about 1/4 inch in Part B.
Tom
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Old 04-05-2008, 02:41 PM
  #18  
Chad Veich
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Progress report on my end. The tailfeathers are now 100% complete, including finished drawings as seen below and laser files. I hope to cut the first set of parts tomorrow. Engineering on the fuse is about 95% done and I'm beginning work on the finished drawings for it. I've also started on the wing drawings since I need some of that info to finish the fuselage. My next order of business will be to put together a list of who wants tail kits and when. Some guys have expressed an interest in waiting until after a couple have been built just in case we run into any issues. I have no problem with that. I will get the list made and posted and then you guys can let me know what you want to do. (and a total cost as well)\


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Old 04-05-2008, 03:33 PM
  #19  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Still moving over a few more tailwheel build photos. I noticed on a couple of photos like the one here that the forks have a seam or ridge running down the center. I tried to simulate it by adding a little bit of 3/64 styrene rod and then dusting some microballoons on the seams as I CA'd it in to fair it with the fork. I hit it with sanding blocks and emery boards in TLAR (that looks about right) fashion to try to simulate the look of the 1:1. Other than that, just a bit of red puttying low spots and polishing on some of the solder joints that show up most when the gear are down. I still need to add in the stub on the downtube that Richard pointed out a while back via e-mail.

The final photos show everything primed and assembled as well as the Dave Brown tailwheel that I selected. It will need some dressing-up but the size is good.

Tom
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Old 04-05-2008, 07:11 PM
  #20  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Here's some pic I have for , hope they help .
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Old 04-05-2008, 09:31 PM
  #21  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Based on some of the work Chad and I have been doing today, it may make sense for everyone to hold off for a day or two on the tailweel builds if you want to get the scale dimensions perfect. We've looked at all the reference drawings including the resized Matt image. He is doing some work to see if we can shorten up some of the angles to get them as close to the reference drawings as possible. If you build it as I built mine, you will be very close, but it's about 1/8 to 1/4 inch off on some of the dimensions and on the rake of the forks (easy to fix if you do it in advance). Probably no one but you would ever know, but if you really want it to be right, it may be worth a day or two until everyone is 100% satisfied. I'm still taking a hard look at all of my photos. The tailwheel may be an area where the Matt drawings are inaccurate. I haven't found a 1:1 yet with the geometry as he shows it. If you continue his lines, they intersect in front of the bulkhead, and do not look like Pappy's pictures in the post above for example. I also have hundreds of photos that I'll be moving online for you guys to use. Details soon...

I'll volunteer to be the guinea pig again and rebuild mine if necessary, plus I'm doing a second for Chad to free up his time to do some other things on the drawings. I will include a step-by-step here if needed.

Tom
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Old 04-06-2008, 01:53 AM
  #22  
Chad Veich
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

A little bit of a setback today with the tailgear issues but, hopefully, those are nearly solved. In the meantime I built up a 3d CAD model of the tailgear to double check all the re-designed parts. The CAD model is built exactly as the real one will be which provides the opportunity to do an exploded view of any part. This may come in handy if anybody is having trouble determining just what is going on. If anybody spots anything that I may have done wrong or sees any potential for problems please let me know.

NOTE: AFTER MORE DISCUSSION WITH TOM WE HAVE DETERMINED THE TAILGEAR STILL NEEDS A BIT OF TWEAKING SO THE DRAWINGS BELOW SERVE ONLY AS A REFERENCE FOR THE BASIC CONSTRUCTION. I WILL POST UPDATED DRAWINGS WHEN THEY ARE COMPLETE.



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Old 04-06-2008, 03:26 AM
  #23  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Atfter several hours of comparing drawings and photos today, here is what I believe to be true:

• The geometry of the two bottom triangles on the diagram Richard posted are correct and should be considered a reference. The Earl Aune design that Luke shared match with these identically. They tie to every full scale that I can get a good enough photo to measure. I think the Matt drawings are incorrect on this point.
• The shape of Matt’s wheel forks is a good reference and is much better than the drawing that Luke shared or chilie’s rendition.
• The only question is how long does Part B need to be to put the tailwheel at the right scale (non compressed) location? I think the Matt drawings provide a good visual reference for the wheel location that we should design everything else around. If anyone else has a better reference point, go ahead and post it here.

Tom
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Old 04-06-2008, 01:05 PM
  #24  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Overnight, I shared my Corsair photos from the [link=http://www.museumofflight.org/Portal.asp?Flash=True]Museum of Flight[/link] here in Seattle as well as from the [link=http://www.navalaviationmuseum.org/]National Museum of Naval Aviation[/link] in Pensacola, FL [link=http://cid-be7e1d3a4cb3f1fb.spaces.live.com/default.aspx]here.[/link] Remember that there are two variants at each location, but the different lighting and location make it pretty easy to tell which one you are viewing once you've spent a little bit of time with the photos. If others wish to contribute to the collection, I'd be happy to post on your behalf or link to your existing location from here. I can also run down to the Museum of Flight at any time and get additional detail shots of the FG-1D there. The only limitation is they only let you get about 10 feet from the aircraft unlike Pensacola where you can crawl underneath it if you wish. My family lives in Pensacola, so I can get my stepfather to take a field trip over there as needed too. As I have a little time, I'll probably organize these a little more by Variant and subject area (e.g. FG-1D - Landing Gear) but for now they are there for your use and enjoyment. I wish more people had access to these national treasures.

Tom
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Old 04-06-2008, 01:29 PM
  #25  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Very cool thanks!

I'm in the process of uploading mine. I don't have much up there at the moment. I've started putting up some of the tail.
This will be the main site:
[link=http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u221/rwright142/Corsair]Corsair Pictures[/link]
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