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AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

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AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Old 01-20-2009, 09:51 AM
  #376  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build


ORIGINAL: lrayj

Thanks John.

Hey Bill I'm asking to be added to the list.

Thanks
Lonnie
You need to come over to the Vintage and Antique forum, and look at the tiny little Waco YMF thread. That's where you get to see your Brotherhood stuff.

Bill, Waco Brother #1
Old 01-20-2009, 10:46 AM
  #377  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

So what is being part of the Waco brotherhood all about? I lived in Waco at one time.
Old 01-20-2009, 12:22 PM
  #378  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Kin Auther1953,

Waco (commonly pronounced Wayco), TX has little to do with the Weaver Aircraft Company or WACO (except that one of the founders worked there for a short period). WACO (pronounced Wocko as opposed to wacko, although we are a little bit wacko about WACOs) aircraft are some of the prettiest aircraft of the Golden Age (late 1920s to mid 1940s). We are enthusiastic about replicating WACO aircraft, mostly the UMF and YMF models (the most refined open cockpit model). There are other models such as the ARE and SRE (the most elegant of the cabin models). The UPF (the most numerous and used as a military trainer) and many, many other models.

If interested in building a WACO model, check out this and other threads especially the WACO YMF thread in Vintage and Antique. That thread is all about the building the Pica WACO UMF/YMF kits. Pica sadly went out of business in the 1980s and kits have become rare and expensive. All is not lost because the WACO Brotherhood has resurrected the 1/5thPica YMF by supplying the AMA with all of the parts templates to go with the Pica 1990 plans (#35406). Now you can order the plans (be sure to ask for the templates) and cut your own kit to build. There have been modifications and improvements to make the kit better with different engines, radio installations, and structure and scale aspects. The mods can be found it the thread and in the manuals on the HoM site.

The House of Moy http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/ has more info and a list of kits, plans (many different WACO models), Instruction Manuals, ARF’s, full scale information and more. You could download and print a set of plans from there but you would not have the templates needed to build from.

Come join us (even if you lived in Waco, TX, we won’t hold that against you)
Old 01-20-2009, 12:38 PM
  #379  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Very nice response John. We love Wacos.
Old 01-20-2009, 07:17 PM
  #380  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Lonnie
It will be a pleasure to help you anyway you need. Feel free to ask anything.
I would start with
What do you want your plane to be. If you are going to campaign it for show and want to win you will have to really do your homework.
As I have said before I have build three of the Genesis kits under contract. I know this kit well. I had the privledge Of attending Top Gun in 2007 and watched the Judging of one of the planes that I had built to an ARC
. I saw all the things that cost points and watched the judges very carefully.
If you want to win your plane must stand out. It must have what I call Pazzazzzz. Bob Gonzalez's plane drew crowds. It stood out. He chose Red and Black for his colors and it really looked scale even though it had many things wrong. The finishes he did were first class they looked real. Not hand made. He is a master at finishes.
The plane was not built for Top Gun. It was built to just fly. I convinced him to go to Top Gun because I thought it had a chance to win. Having seen Mike Barbies plane I thought Bobs was in many ways better. At that time I did not know the things that were wrong with the kit. The Genesis kit was not built for show.

Now there have been many improvements in the AMR kit but there are still things that need to be Tweeked.
First go get the CD on the Blue and White Plane. Study it. Get in Close and look at every part. Go look at the Full scale planes. With the brotherhood there is now resources that will answer any question you have. skylarkmk1 is a walking encyclopedia he has every picture you would ever need. Look back and read every input to the Brotherhood blog. On my next entry I will start on the wings
For now
TR
bortherhood # 69


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Old 01-20-2009, 07:37 PM
  #381  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

ORIGINAL: king_arthur1953

So what is being part of the Waco brotherhood all about? I lived in Waco at one time.
Where in Waco? Branch Davidian?

Bill, Waco Brother #1
Old 01-20-2009, 08:07 PM
  #382  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

ORIGINAL: king_arthur1953

So what is being part of the Waco brotherhood all about? I lived in Waco at one time.
Where in Waco? Branch Davidian?

Bill, Waco Brother #1
I think the heat in Florida is getting to Bill

I received my order of #2 screws today. I have not touched the Waco since Sunday. It is hard to find time during the week, I leave for work at 5:00am and get home at 6:00pm. I really envy you old retired farts. Retirement is wasted on old people
Anthony
Old 01-20-2009, 08:24 PM
  #383  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

..........and youth is wasted on the young.
Old 01-20-2009, 08:56 PM
  #384  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

OK you got me there,
Hey I will be 41 the end of next month, I am on my way downhill[] Well just cresting the top anyways

TR, thanks for posting and helping with tips. It's always helpful to get advice from someone who has built the plane and knows all the sticking points of the build.
f4you,
I have been thinking about your MOD, which turbine are you using? how many pounds of thrust? One thing I found interesting when I was watching Jimmy fly the full scale was he didn't fly straight and level with the turbine at full power very long as the plane built up speed quick and it flew with a tail high trim under turbine power. The exhaust nozzle was pointed down at approx 20deg angle to keep the hot gas off the fuse and tail, he lifted the tail onto saw horses while starting the turbine to keep from catching the tail on fire and had 2 guys standing by just in case with fire extinguishers. You had to be impressed seeing that plane do a 3,000 ft vertical climb on the turbine[8D]
Later!!
Anthony
Old 01-20-2009, 09:16 PM
  #385  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build


ORIGINAL: trlambsr

Lonnie
As I have said before I have build three of the Genesis kits under contract. I know this kit well. I had the privledge Of attending Top Gun in 2007 and watched the Judging of one of the planes that I had built to an ARF. I saw all the things that cost points and watched the judges very carefully.
TR
bortherhood # 69
He ain't kidding. He was on me like a cheap suit. I thought for a minute that he was going to be my scribe. Naw, it does not bother me for someone to watch over my shoulder when I'm judging. In fact, it keeps me on my toes. For last year, Bob had corrected some of the glaring issues, but the wing tips did not get any of the surgery. It's a shame too, because that Big ol' red Waco draws crowds like honey draws flies. Frank's flying does not hurt it any either.

Bill, Waco Brother #1
Old 01-20-2009, 10:22 PM
  #386  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Hey TR

I already have that CD and that is the plane I want to do the model after. I have been studying it for over a month now. I do not intend to enter it into contests. My plans are for fun flying and flying at local events. Our club is a member of the Middle Tennessee R/C Club Association and they host a big event at the Maury County airport each year and we have pilots from all over the South East come to this. This is the kind of events I'm talking about. No contests. It is my hope that this plane will help draw crowds to our club events and get people interested in the hobby. Like I said before I want to put enough detail into the plane to add that WOW factor without spending the next 2 years trying to get every last detail in place. The white and blue scheme on NC14081 is an eye popper. I really like it which should keep me going on this.

Lonnie
Old 01-21-2009, 12:03 AM
  #387  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build


ORIGINAL: WacoNut

f4you,
I have been thinking about your MOD, which turbine are you using? how many pounds of thrust? One thing I found interesting when I was watching Jimmy fly the full scale was he didn't fly straight and level with the turbine at full power very long as the plane built up speed quick and it flew with a tail high trim under turbine power. The exhaust nozzle was pointed down at approx 20deg angle to keep the hot gas off the fuse and tail, he lifted the tail onto saw horses while starting the turbine to keep from catching the tail on fire and had 2 guys standing by just in case with fire extinguishers. You had to be impressed seeing that plane do a 3,000 ft vertical climb on the turbine[8D]
Later!!
Anthony
Anthony, thanks for your thoughts. Your points are right-on, we've been at work on this critter both physically and mentally on your points also, plus a few others, like the heat shield just aft of the turbine pipe exhaust opening, and a few other crazy things (some very special wing spars, etc). I'm with you on the tail high trim. A video of him performing at Reno really showed the tail high thing, especially when he put some power into the turbine in straight and level (and fairly brief) flight.
We have a 30 pound thrust turbine, which should give some pretty nice vertical stuff together with a DA 170 in the nose.
It was literally breathtaking watching Jimmy point the nose up on that beast and just go straight up in a hurrywe hope to capture that personality with the model.
BTW, the pilot for this creation will be my son, Terry Hahn, he's a competitor at Futaba's XFC in Muncie. We've both been thinking about this project for quite a while, hopefully it'll go as we hope....
Joe
Old 01-21-2009, 09:28 AM
  #388  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

You might be interested in the adjustable Horizontal Stab that I have done on my Waco. Sounds like it might be just the thing to fly yours tail high.

Bill, Waco Brother #1
Old 01-22-2009, 03:32 AM
  #389  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

I have been following this thread with great interest. Watching the framing process is very gratifying! Nice work to all involved!

Somewhat off topic, but not really; I have some history with the Waco YKS-7 NC20905, and have bought the Hobby Lobby YKS-6 to hold me over until find exactly what I am looking for. I have seen a few memorable examples of the YKS-6 and 7 here and there, most notable in the AMA mag several months back. Do any of you know anyone that has built, kitted, or has plans for a ~100cc size YKS? I have been in contact with the distributor of Mammoth plans, and they have a 25% YKS 6 plan for a ~50cc, so thats a start I guess.

Thanks again for this thread- it really is inspiring to see these beautiful machines in "miniature"!

Waco brotherhood wanna be
Old 01-22-2009, 05:34 AM
  #390  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

If you wannabe in the Brotherhood, then go to the YMF thread over in the Vintage and Antique forum and say so.

Bill, Waco Brother #1
Old 01-22-2009, 01:11 PM
  #391  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Hey TR

I have studied what Anthony has done on his tip and studied the wing tip on that other small WACO thread. I looks like I will need to modify the last three ribs on the wings. Also have to shape the wing spar where the aileron attaches. It has a curved shape on the bottom towards the top as it goes out towards the tip. It appears to curve more on the bottom than on the top. The last rib appears to have negative incidence in relation to the other ribs. Each of the last three ribs appear to have this and it increases out to the last rib. This should provide the negative angle of attack at the tip to delay the tip stall. Am I anywhere in the ball park on this?

Lonnie
Old 01-22-2009, 05:55 PM
  #392  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Lonnie
Hi
Take a look at the enclosed pictures. Look real close. Really study the trailing edge one were the ailerons are attached. Look were the taper starts. Like between the 3 and 4th rib.
Also look were the Spars are and the leading edge is.
I have been told that the pica section is real close. There is a problem with were the spars are but the outline is dead on.
Take a look at the difference of the AmR leading edge template and the Pica.
Pay close attention to where the last rib is. It is shorter the the others. It is part of the taper
I am working on more and will cover this more with drawing.

TR

PS Most of these pictures came from John Howard and I am sure at some point he will come in with his wisdom.
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Old 01-22-2009, 06:07 PM
  #393  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Hey TR

I really appreciate the time you are putting into this to get me what I need on these wing tips. Of course I'm sure everyone else will benefit from your effort.

Thanks for what your doing
Lonnie
Old 01-22-2009, 06:26 PM
  #394  
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ORIGINAL: lrayj

Hey TR

I really appreciate the time you are putting into this to get me what I need on these wing tips. Of course I'm sure everyone else will benefit from your effort.

Thanks for what your doing
Lonnie
Lonnie,

In your previous post, you touched on a couple of issues on the Genesis/AMR wing design. Terry has the correct information on this, and you are all over the wingtip issue. There are other issues as well, but you have the basic problem with the tip well in hand. The top of the wingform does taper to the tip, but it is not as pronounced as is the bottom of the wing. the full scale appears to have some negative incidence in the last rib, but this is not the case if you view the wing from the rear. The full scale had zero washout. Hopefully Terry will have the resolution to this before you get to that stage in your assembly. Since you don't plan to build a contest model with yours, this should not be an earth stopping issue. It's just a shame to build a model such as this one, and have these issues to resolve. I will be happy to give guidance if requested.

Bill, Waco Brother #1
Old 01-22-2009, 07:35 PM
  #395  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Hey Bill

I'll take all the guidance I can get. I'm not new to building scale but as for the WACO I'm a babe in the woods.

Lonnie. Waco Brother #128? I think
Old 01-22-2009, 07:55 PM
  #396  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

<snip>
ORIGINAL: lrayj

Lonnie. Waco Brother #128? I think
<snip>

You think?????? You Think?????

If you will look on every page that ends in zero, you will find a roster. The last one is on page 310, and it shows that you are Brother #128.

George is Brother #200, and his name and number are in GOLD. When a Brother flys off into the sunset, their names will be changed to Gold as well. It's not something that we enjoy, but there needs to be some sort of memorial to them here.

Bill, Waco Brother #1
Old 01-22-2009, 08:03 PM
  #397  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Hey Bill

I beginning to figure my way around all this however I'm little slow. Thanks for pointing out the roster pages.

Lonnie Waco Brother #128 no doubt
Old 01-22-2009, 08:42 PM
  #398  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Hi guys,
I am really excited to see all the activity in this thread, It helps to keep you motivated in a build for sure.
I received the LED's for the nav lights today. I am taking the plug for the lens to work and a buddy is going to vaccume form the lenses for me. I hope to get some more work accomplished on the Waco this weekend.
Later!!
Anthony
Old 01-22-2009, 09:02 PM
  #399  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Lonnie,
You will be shocked by how much material you will need to remove from the ribs. The last rib is the toughest as you have to remove material from top and bottom. Study the pictures good and use them as a guide, get one set of ribs cut to your satisfaction while dry fitting in the jig then transfer them to the ribs for the remaining 3 panels. I thought I had mine pretty close but I still need to do a bit more. You will also be stopping the rear bottom spar shorter by one rib and adding filler under the top spar. at the last rib.
Later!!
Anthony
Old 01-22-2009, 09:48 PM
  #400  
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Anthony, et. al.

Have you guys been feeding any of this back to Dany and Michel? Or aren't they interested?

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