germrb

My Feedback: (3)

John,

Maybe you can help us out with some full size data. I have no idea what a real 1/3 scale instrument diameter is suppose to be. For example, what's the full size diameter of a Turn/Bank?
I'm working on a Wedell-Williams Model 44. I have accurate pictures of the IP in Rosco Tanner's racer at the Crawford and a drawing of the IP, except I have no accurate scale reference.

The insturments I received from ProPeg are 15mm and 20mm, which are advertised as 1/4 scale. True or False?

skylarkmk1

germrb

I don’t have any actual measurements (I forgot to measure them, but will the next time I am at the airport) but in digging through a Wick’s Aircraft Supply Catalog came up with two sizes that are similar to what I have seen in the Wacos (some other aircraft of the same time period had even larger instrument);

Full Scale 2-1/4� (2-3/8� ) = about 60 mm (5 x 12 mm = 60 mm)
Full Scale 3-1/8� = about 80 mm (5 x 15 mm = 75 mm)

1/5 scale would need 12 mm for the smaller instruments and 15 mm for the larger ones.
1/4 scale would need 15 mm for the smaller instruments and 20 mm for the larger ones.
1/3 scale would need 20 mm for the smaller instruments and 25 mm for the larger ones.

In the photos below you can see my efforts in trying to replicate the full size IP in 1/5th scale. I had to reorder the T&B and Compass in ¼ scale to get the correct apparent size as in the full scale.

P1 – First panel with the T&B and Compass too small (12 mm)
P2 – Second panel with correct size T&B and Compass (15 mm)
P3 – Full size IP for comparison. Still some work to do on mine in P2

germrb

My Feedback: (3)

John,

Thanks for the input. The instruments I have are 15 & 20mm, which is probably more appropriate for the 1/4 scale Hostedler Red Lion kit that I just purchase. I'll wait to see what Anthony finds out from InZpan about the 1/3 scale individuals.

lrayj

I have been trying to get to the correct shape of the wing tip. I took the photo of the trailing edge at the aileron to determine what this shold be on the model. Using the measurements I detemined where the curve up from the bottom should start. On the AMR WACO this is 9.57 inches from rib W12. The top curve is from W11 to W12. Once I got this the way I wanted it I took the measurements of the width of the trailing edge at each rib location and tranfered that to the rib outline. I then drew out what the new rib shape should be from that. The shaded area on the rib drawings represents what should be removed. Any comments on how close I am will be welcome.

michou41a

My Feedback: (18)

Hello, since few modelers prefer the real wibs shape, i can laser cut those ribs if i have the correct drawing .

Will be a pleasure to update your kits.

Regards

Michel AMR

WacoNut

Lonnie,
It looks like you will need to remove a little more from the top of rib #12. Take a look back earlier in this thread and you will see what I did with the rib. You will also need to remove a little of W10 and W11 on the bottom of the L/E back to the spar.
Michel,
That would be great to get them lazer cut, I do not need them mysef as I have reshaped my ribs. Mine are not pefect and still need some more work. We will see if we can get you some drawings.
Anthony

Stickbuilder

Please elaborate on what you are calling the real ribs shape.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

lrayj

Hey Anthony

Thanks for the input. I will take another look

skylarkmk1

Lonnie,

The next to last rib (Pica W7) and the last rib (Pica W8) have the top edge lower than the main ribs. On the Full size W7 is about 1/8" lower, W-8 is about 3/8" lower and the wing tip bow is about 1-1/8" lower then the rest of the ribs. The last long rib in the aileron area (Pica W6, I've renamed W6a) has a small taper on the bottom from the aileron spar to the rear main spar. If you need to, look at the Pica wing plan on HoM to match up Pica rib numbers with the AMR numbers.

WacoNut

John for future reference on the AMR the last rib at the tip is Rib #12. Lonnie is showng rib #10,#11 and #12 in his pics.
Anthony

WacoNut

Bill,
I believe Michel is saying he will cut new wing ribs to make the wing tip shape more scale if we can supply him with drawings of the ribs with the correct shape.
Anthony

skylarkmk1

Anthony,

Thanks, I could not read the numbers in the pictures posted and do not have the AMR plan sheets. I just assembled my ASW sail plane (11' span) in the house and it was in the living room and the kitchen. Your AMR 33% has got to be huge; no way could I fit that in my place.

Stickbuilder

Lonnie,

You are quite a bit closer with your drawing on photo #3. You still are too fat in the rib depth, and once again (I'm not making friends here), the leading edge is at the wrong location, and the rib outline is wrong from the main spar forward. The leading edge of the Waco wing is not on the centerline of the rib, but is much lower. The bottom of the rib has too much rise toward the leading edge as well. Look back a few posts, where someone had posted a comparison of the Pica vs the AMR forward rib profile.

Your photo of the full scale wing profile (Looks like one of John's photos) shows the correct taper of the wing.

If you don't have a set of the CD's from John, I would reccomend your getting a set. These photos will answer tons of questions regarding the wing profile that is correct. If I still lived in Hendersonville, we could cut a new set of ribs for you, and correct these issues. Honestly, short of cutting new ribs to correct the leading edge placement, and the shape of the leading edge, I don't know what to tell you to do. You might be okay with adding a chin to the bottom of the rib, and plugging and recutting the leading edge notch.

The airfoil that Genesis/AMA used looks like a true Clark-Y. The Waco Wing profile has a full flat bottom almost all the way to the leading edge.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

Stickbuilder

Anthony,

I understood that part of his post. The part that has me puzzled is the part about the real rib shape.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

lrayj

Hey Bill

I studied that comparison between the AMR and the PICA. And I'm afraid I have to agree with you on this one. I believe the only way to get the shape the way it should be is to re-cut all the ribs. I did not spend that kind of money for the AMR kit to re-cut all the ribs. If it is not going to drastically affect the flight characteristics of the plane, I'm inclined to leave the rest of the ribs the way they are. Seeing as this plane will never be judged in a contest I see no harm no foul. 99.9% of the people that will be looking at this plane will never know the difference. That excludes the guys in the brotherhood. I am still going to try and get the tips as close as I can. Now if your going to be in Hendersonville I might have to leave town to keep from getting that grief you promised.

Stickbuilder

I'll be there this summer. One child lives in Brentwood, One over off Forest Retreat Road, one In Saundersville Station (very near where George lived), and one in Indian Lake Forest. I've got you bracketed.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

lrayj

Hey Bill

As my wife says I guess I have to man-up. Hope I get to meet you when your up here.

WacoNut

I received an e-mail from Brian at Dynamic Balsa and he said he is working on the 33% Cockpit and it will be evailable this spring. At the rate I am getting to work on my Waco lately that should be fine
I did not get a reply from inZpan about the instruments which is very discouraging. I will give them another couple of days and then make a decision about what I am going to do.
Can someone tell me how their instruments are built? Is it just a printed face installed in the bezel or is it more complex ie: raise faces and seperate indicator needles? If they are just printed faces I may see if I can get 20 blank instruments and install the faces I want.
Later!!
Anthony

germrb

My Feedback: (3)

Anthony,

The InZpan instruments are printed, flat face. They do have a plastic lens, but no raised or individual needles. That's why they are so inexpensive.

By the way, I received the Barth pant cuffs from Procotor today. They are much too small. I think someone mentioned that fact earlier in the thread. Oh well, its only money.

WacoNut

Bob,
Don't give up on those cuffs so quick, you could probably split them right down the middle and add a section of fiberglass to widen them and tweak the fairing to the gear. No harm in trying anyhow.
Anthony

germrb

My Feedback: (3)

Anthony,

I haven't totally given up on the cuffs, but it will take some serious work. At least I have a model to work from, which is a good start.

Glad to hear that Brian is working on a cockpit. I have one of his cockpits in my P51 and it gets a lot of attention. He does nice work.

By the way, what is your source for #2 screws?

WacoNut

Hi Bob,
Sorry for the delay, we got hit with another round of snow this afternoon and it took me 4 hours to drive home from work[:@]
I buy my screws from microfasteners.com, you can get them in several different styles. I bought 500 phillips round head.
Later!!
Anthony

germrb

My Feedback: (3)

Anthony,

I remember that crap. I use to work 55 miles from home and having to drive through blizzards and fog and black ice. It sucks!!

But keep those Raptor parts coming. I have Raptors turning base to final right over my house everyday on their way into Hill AFB. Don't want any of them falling out of the sky.

Thanks for the hardware source. I get mine from Smallparts.com, but often they are out of stock. Its good to have an alternate source.

Stay safe!

lazyace

My Feedback: (126)

spring is only 6 weeks away , have you brothers tryd rtlfateners.com for screws

Big_Bird

My Feedback: (1)

The link that works is here. http://rtlfasteners.com/RC/index.html

Anthony, I was thinking about you yesterday and all of that snow. It was 61 here, no wind, and clear blue sky.