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AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

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Old 11-09-2008, 02:39 PM
  #126
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

The wing tubes have now been epoxied in place with the micro-balloons mixture as well as the antirotaion tubes. I added some balsa stick stock along each carbon fiber tube then coated everything with the epoxy mixture. I want to make sure I do not have one of these tubes push bak into the wing during assembly, would be a real pain to fix later. It looks like an excessive ammount of epoxy but the mixture is actually very light due to the micro-balloons.
I will let it dry for an hour or so and hopefully it will slide apart and back together very smoothly.
Anthony
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Old 11-09-2008, 04:02 PM
  #127
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

I am wondering if the micro balloons and epoxy is a bit of overkill. On my 42% AMR Super Decathlon I used Titebond II and the laser cut disks that were sent with the kit. I must admit that I added some half disks on the opposite side. My theory is that if the Titebond breaks loose then the ribs are destroyed anyway.
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Old 11-09-2008, 04:33 PM
  #128
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Ken you are probably correct but the weight gain is minimal and the extra security will make me feel better at the bottom side of a big loop
I have the center section sheeted and ready to put the L/E on. The wing panels slide together nicely and the joints look great. It takes very little effort to seat each panel and there is absolutely zero slop.
Of course here are a couple of pics!!
Anthony
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:44 PM
  #129
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

I have the wing off the table and I have started work on the fuse, The fuse top and sides are each made up of two pieces that must be epoxied together. The sides have an angle cut at the joint and it gets a 1/8 plate over the joint on the inside and outdside of each side. I have the pieces joined and the outside plate epoxied into place. The plates are secured with 3/8" staples to keep everyting in place while the epoxy cures. Tomorrow evening I can epoxy the inside plates on and continue on with the construction.
The fuse box looks like it will build quick.
Anthony
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Old 11-10-2008, 12:42 AM
  #130
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Anthony,

The condensate drains on NC 14081, a 1987 Waco Classic YMF Classic are typical of those used on Seaplanes. According to one of my Waco guru’s who owns a bunch (more than a dozen) of Wacos, said the originals used a plain grommet as a drain. These are a thin washer (aluminum during the 1930s, plastic today) that are doped (or use Poly-Tak Adhesive) into place with a slightly larger disk of fabric over the grommet. The center is then cut out for drainage. It you use Koverall or a Dacron fabric; a small soldering gun can be used to “melt” the opening without fraying. The inspection port rings are done the same way but not opened until needed and then fitted with a cover.

I spent half the day at the Airport taking pictures of instrument panels of Wacos, Fairchilds, Rearwins, Stintsons and others trying to locate some “Pioneer” instruments as shown on the sales receipt for NC 14132. I did find some with the Pioneer label, but many instruments do not have a makers name on the faceplate anywhere. I also noted that a few of the planes had a “Cessna” instrument installed as a replacement. I will check the ProPagTeam instruments to see what is most similar to what I found.

The guru also stated that he had a generator at home, complete with mounting pylon that is similar to the one shown in the picture of NC 14132. I will get back with him to get photos of it for you. I also was able to find wing tip lights that were mounted half way between the wing tip and leading edge on a 1932 Waco UBA that are appropriate for a 1935 Waco YMF. I will send you photos of the instruments (with list) and lights tomorrow.
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Old 11-10-2008, 04:50 AM
  #131
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

John you are my hero
Thanks for all your help. The washers for the drains will be easier to replicate for sure. I am looking forward to seeing the pics.
Anthony
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Old 11-10-2008, 07:52 AM
  #132
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Just be sure to apply the drain hole washers on the outer side of the ribs (the lowest point of each rib bay). I saw a Smithsonian restoration of a Navy aircraft hanging overhead with the drain grommets on the wrong side of the ribs!!! Mitch
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Old 11-10-2008, 06:31 PM
  #133
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Thanks for the tip Mitch!!!
Anthony
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:35 PM
  #134
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

After a very long week at work I am back to working on the Waco,
I have started on the fuselage, the fuse builds very differently from every model I have built. The method of construction is very interesting and looks to be very easy and also very useful. There are 4 sets of formers that need to be laminated together to make them 1/2" thick. I did this by using Elmers wood glue and using screws to keep the parts held togther in the proper orientation then I used my staple gun with 3/8" staples to lock everything together. This method worked very well. The fuse top and sides are each made up from 2 pieces. The top is just butt jointed together and the sides have ply joiner plates to cover the joint on the inside and outside, all of these joints were done with epoxy. I then added 1/2" spruce tri-stock along the edge of the fuse top and fuse bottom, this is secured with Elmers and #4 screws. The screws work great to help contour the tri-stock to the top and bottom, the screws and the driver are supplied with the kit.
The fuse sides will be dry fitted to the top and bottom and secured with the supplied #4 screws, this will allow the bottom to be removed for access to the control rods, tank, engine box etc: Once you get everything set up you remove one side at a time add glue and secure it back with the screws.
I am wating for the glue to fully dry before proceeding, here are a few pics of the pieces ready for assembly.
Anthony
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Old 11-16-2008, 09:26 AM
  #135
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

I am working on getting the top cabane set,
I have the fuse box constructed, this went very well and is straight forward. I have some questions about moutning the cabane and have dropped an email to Dany at AMR. This is one area I want to make sure there are absolutely no errors as this is a very ctitical part of the construction. I am attaching a pic of the fuse with the cabane jig mounted.
Anthony
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Old 11-16-2008, 11:14 AM
  #136
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Looking good Anthony. It sure would be hard to go wrong with that type of cabane jig. Sure beats our little Wacos.
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Old 11-16-2008, 11:17 AM
  #137
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Yep the jig is a big help,
I am a little unsure of how the wires are fitting, I will be talking to Dany and make sure I am on the right path.
Anthony
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Old 11-16-2008, 01:12 PM
  #138
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Anthony,

You've certainly got the right idea about checking with Dany for questions. The incidence of the top wing is really critical. If there is anydeviation from zero/zero, make sure that the error is negative. Diverging incidence on a bipe this size is real trouble. I thought I did everything right, but ended up with a slightly positive top wing. I still don't fully understand how I got there, but on first flight it was a bit terrifing.

The incidence is measured from the bottom of the wing ribs per the instructions, but be sure to double check everything as you complete the center section and cabaine mounting. I left mine sitting in the shop for a week worrying about the accuracy of the setup.

By the way, your work so far looks great.
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Old 11-16-2008, 06:53 PM
  #139
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Thanks Bob,
I contacted Dany, actually he called me and I discussed this with him and I now feel comfortable contiueing with the installation of the wires.
Anthony
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Old 11-16-2008, 07:36 PM
  #140
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Anthony,

Where else can you find a company that will call you on a Sunday afternoon to provide customer service? These guys are great!
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Old 11-17-2008, 06:15 PM
  #141
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Dany and Michel have been very responsive!!!
Anthony
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:29 AM
  #142
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Anthony,

This is a great thread so far and I am enjoying your build. As we discussed earlier, I am "rebuilding" a Genesis 33% WACO and trying to scale out as much of the plane as I can over the winter. My original intent was to recover it, but with the other projects to complete this winter, I will only be making repairs and “scaling up” certain areas. I really want to fly this bird in the Spring.

The Genesis is powered with a DA 150 and has damage to the LG, which I am repairing and adding scale operating gear struts. The stringers from the back of the bottom wing to the rear of the aircraft are also damaged. I am rehinging the tail surfaces and considering changing the decalage including increasing the AOA of the horizontal stab to plus 3 degrees. Additionally, I am going to add a new decal set and do something with the paint (considering a light dusting of color and then shooting the top surfaces with a coat of clear satin.)

After looking at your pix on the Pepino unit, I am psyched about the detail you are going to put on the 33%. I have collected a fair amount of scale pix and will be looking at your scale approach to the build.

Tim
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:16 PM
  #143
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Tim welcome to the thread,
I will be adding lots of eye candy to the Waco, I really enjoy adding details. The plane is huge and can handle the extra weight of the detail without hurting performance. I will be taking a couple of weeks off from the build as deer hunting season is open a week from this monday and I will be spending the whole week hunting with my dad. I have alot of scouting and prepping to do for the hunt. I will be checking in on the thead, as soon as hunting is over I will get back to the Waco.
Please post pics as you go!!
Anthony
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:58 PM
  #144
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Anthony,

Best of luck with the hunt!! Just keep thinking ELK, ELK, ELK. Oh, I forgot, they don't have them in Ohio.
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:07 PM
  #145
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Anthony,

Just in case you have never actually seen one.
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Old 11-21-2008, 07:10 AM
  #146
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Now wait just one minute[:@] That is not even fair, I will set you up with a good whitetail hunt for an Elk hunt
Anthony
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:38 AM
  #147
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

I told myself I was going to take a break on the Waco while I am getting ready for hunting but I found a little spare time and couldn't resist spending it on the Waco.
I took some time this morning to tweak the bends in the cabane wires. It is very important that they line up and fit to the aluminum brackets with no tension on the wires because it will induce a change in the angle of attack or a crooked wing once the jig is removed and the wing is bolted back to the cabane wires. The wires are installed and the brackets are clamped into position and the incidence checks spot on. The wing also checks level left to right. At this point I am ready to take the aluminum mounting plates loose one by one and glue them into place with Gorilla Glue, after the glue has cured I will go back and drill through the aluminum and ply plates and secure them with bolts. This is probably one of the more time consuming and critical parts of the build, I will be glad to get this behind me.
Anthony
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:02 PM
  #148
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Looking good Anthony.
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:10 PM
  #149
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Anthony,

Did the installation sequence remain the same for both sides of the fuselage? I noticed in your photo that on the right side #3 went on first, followed by #2. I had to install mine the opposite on the left side in order to align everything. Your set up looks good. You're wise to take your time. This alignment is really critical. If there is any doubt, make sure the incidence is negitive; not positive.

I don't have any experience using Gorilla glue, but for all metal to wood bonds I have found the JB Weld is excellent. It cures quite slowly (12-24 hours) and is incredably strong. Of course, with the plates bolted, the adhesive is less critical.

Good luck on the hunt. I'm afraid my hunting days are over. Besides, no one really hunts anymore. They run around the mountains on 4 wheelers scaring all the game. Its more like ambushing than hunting. We use to spend two weeks on horseback just tracking specific animals.
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:42 PM
  #150
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Default RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build

Bob,
I have a healthy supply of JB Weld but I prefer the Gorilla Glue for this type of bond. It takes just a light skim of Gorrila glue on both sides of the bond then lightly mist it with water and immediately clamp the parts together and it will begin to foam in a few minutes. This will force the glue to seat into the wood for a very secure bond and it will fully cure in about 2 hours. I also scuff the surface of the aluminum for the glue to adhere to.
I hear you about the 4-wheelers, I use them to get close to the hunting area then hike the rest of the way and the 4-wheeler only gets used to bring the deer out. Too many idiots use them for driving deer and just running around in the woods while hunting. I just sit tight and let those idiots move the deer to me My dad is getting too old to hike up hill for 45 mintes so I ride him in on the 4-wheeler
Anthony
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