Stickbuilder

Dave

You made a post in the other thread and then deleted your post. That forum is where you would become a member of the Brotherhood. Please go back there and repost your information. Your membership will be issued there.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

mogman

OK, thanks Bill.

docadams

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Guys,

I have been following this forum for sometime now because I am building the AMR Waco 33%. Framing is complete and covering and finishing is starting. Most of my questions have been answered by this forum or some other resource but I have recently come across a question that I am getting mixed answers to. So Ithought this forum would be a good place to ask the question. The question has to do with the finishing tapes. Some of the people I have asked say the tapes go over the leading edge of the wing and are exposed on the leading edge while some say the tapes stop at the junction of the leading edge cap. I hope someone can help. Thank all of you that contribute to this thread as it has been very informative. My Waco is not going to be true scale but a good representation of the full scale. I have attached a couple of pics of the framed up plane.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Docadams

lrayj

The Rib tapes wrap around the leading edge of the wing. These are then covered with a parameter tape along the leading edge
The parameter tapes are wider than the rib tapes. Hope this helps

skylarkmk1

Docadams,

Lonnie is correct, rib reinforcing tapes (2" wide) are full chord with the leading edge tape (6" wide) covering them to prevent the ends from lift from wind pressure. The tip reinforcing tapes are narrower than the leading edge tape and are cut on the biase (45°) to form around the wingtip more easily. Reinforcing tape are also applied to the fuselage where ever the stringers make contact with the fabric covering or where a metal fairing edge touches the fabric. Note how the tape is ended when the stringer no longer contacts the covering.

Note in the picture the second rib from the tip the tape stops at the forward spar and tip sheeting and is covered with the spar tape.

docadams

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks guys,

You wouldn't believe how many people don't know for sure how the tapes should be. Ihave tried to research this online and by contacting others that I felt would know. As it turns out about 80 % had the correct answer and the others either weren't sure or had the wrong information. I spoke with the folks at stits and they told me that the tapes do in fact go around the leading edge but I still wasn't convienced. Ihave lots of pictures of Waco's but they don't show the tapes very well. I have recently discovered we have a full scale Waco nearby and I have the owners name. I am going to tried to make contact with him and go take a close look at this plane. I am getting excited about flying this bad boy. I hope to shoot the paint this spring. Have you guys tried the stits system specifically the poly tone paints. I am an automotive paint guy but I have been considering some other systems. I don't want to make a mistake on the final finish. That would be real bad. The concern with the auto paint is cracking over the open structure. I have heard that even with plastizer after a while you can get some cracking. Iwould appreciate your thoughts on this.

Thanks Docadams

skylarkmk1

John,

The application of covering and reinforcing tapes is pretty much the same on most fabric covered aircraft, so look at more than one plane if you can.

Waco Joe can probably give the difinitive answer,I belive he works for the EAA and does a lot of the inspecting required for certification.

lrayj

I used automotive base coat clear coat on mine and it has worked very well. After spraying a scrap piece of my covering with this paint I wrinkled it up and no cracks. I am very pleased with the finish I got here is the result

docadams

My Feedback: (1)

HILonnie,

I love your scheme. I have been looking at this scheme you used for a long time.Your plane is beautiful.I still may go with another scheme but I really like the red/yellow/black. I am also leaning toward the auto paint.I used the base coat clear coat on a comp arf extra works great. I know guys are having good luck with other systems but Itend to stay with what I know. Would you mind sharing your paint numbers?II would greatly appreciate them.What type of primer did you use? I am covering with nelson lite fab and when I spoke withJerry a while back he said he recommend brushingon the 1st coat to lock the paintto the fabric. Idon't think this is an option with theauto paint.I painted a stearman some time ago with acrylic enamal over sig coverall and dope. I did have a few problems with the paint not bonding but it wasn't too bad. In that case I failed to use any plastisizer.

Thanks Docadams

lrayj

Well here goes. I hope I have it all. Firat I used Nelson's Lite fab on mine also. Doped the structure with 3 coats before applying the fabric. Now for the paint
Primer DuPont Nason 421-19
Bull Dog Flex Tie Coat
Reducer Dupont Nason 441-21
Activator Dupont Nason 483-87 Depending on Temp
Clear Dupont Nason 498-00

Spray the color on the fabric without the primer. Used the primer and tie coat on fiber glass parts only. Flex agent used in clear coat only
Colors were custom mixed at O-Reilly's auto parts

skylarkmk1

doc,

The reason I believe Jerry recommended brushing on the first coat is that the newer fabrics are synthetic such as polyester and do not soak up the dope/paints like the natural fiber fabrics like cotton. The synthetic fibers need to be encapsulated (surrounded) by the dope to bond well. The full size Wacos I have seen restored have all had the first coat brushed on with the later coats sprayed on. The White w/Blue YKS, NC 17547 below was done in that manner.

nine o nine

My Feedback: (1)

I agree that "encapsulating" the fibers of synthetics such as dacron (ceconite, coverall, Nelson Litefab, or polyesters) with a first coat is important and I did do that on my Waco build. I brushed on one coat of nitrate dope over Nelson Litefab. In retrospect though, that material is fully sealed with an adhesive coat so I don't believe that I really accomplished anything???????? I then used a coat of epoxy primer then DuPont Nason basecoat/clearcote. Everything worked out fine though. Mitch

Stickbuilder

It is with great sadness that I must inform everyone of the untimely passing of Lonnie Johnson's Wife Pat this morning. If you wish to send flowers, it will be to the Hendersonville Memorial Gardens, Hendersonville, Tennessee 37075. The visitation will be on Tuesday 7 June 2011 from 4pm until 8pm. Cremation service on Wednesday 8 June 2011. I know that all of you wish to share your endorsements of condolances to Lonnie and family.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

smokinwoody

My condolences to Lonnie and his family...prayers sent

sorry to hear of the passing of Pat his wife...Rest In Peace

WacoNut

Very sad news indeed.
I can't imagine the loss.
Anthony

docadams

My Feedback: (1)

Lonnie

I amreally sorry to hear about your loss. I don't know you except through this thread but I can feel your pain. I lost my wife at the age of 27. She passed having my last child. A real tragedy. I am now 62 have 3 grow kids and a great wife of 36 years. Time does heal some of the pain but you never forget. May God Bless you and your family.

Doc Adams

lrayj

I would like to thank everyone for your heart felt thoughts and prayers. It really means a lot when you are going through a bad time. Thanks again

Lonnie

WacoNut

My beloved 33% Waco is no more[]

I had a very good flight going with the Waco and made a mistake on the landing getting too slow. This problem was increased by hitting a down draft about 8-10 ft above the runway. The plane took an ugly bounce and I was unable to get the nose down before it stalled and dropped a wing tip. The resulting crash destroyed the fuse from in front of the aft cockpit forward. The wings came thru with relatively minor damage. The wing tubes are bent. The aft section of the fuse and the tail surfaces are fine.

At this point I am just putting the remnants away until fall and I will tear into it and see what will need to be done to get it back into the air. I may need to order a complete fuselage kit and rebuild the fuse.

Here are a few pics of the flight and the result of the crash. Well pics won't upload now I will try later.
Anthony

lrayj

Hey Anthony

I really hate to hear this about your WACO. It was beautiful. Hope you can get it back in the air

Lonnie

germrb

My Feedback: (3)

Anthony,

Haven't seen a posting in almost a year and what could be worse. This is not a hobby for the faint hearted. Putting it away until fall is very smart. My wrecks have to spend a minimum of six weeks in Purgatory before a final resolution.

Haven't gotten my WACO up this year because of other distractions. Had to rebuild the landing gear this winter because it came unbonded (orginal design). Spent the winter on a 1/4 scale La-7 and now I'm buried in details.

Hope you have a great summer. How is the Hatz coming?

WacoNut

Thanks Lonnie,
I am sure with some replacement wood parts, new cowl,boot cowl etc it will fly again.
Anthony

WacoNut

Hi Bob,
The Hatz is in Limbo, not sure if it will ever get built(long story).

I really hate banging up the Waco, she was my pride and joy. The amount of work to get it back the way it was just makes me sick. At least the engine and other gear didn't get hurt. I may be able to just rebuild the front half of the fuse and strip the wings for a good inspection and repair. Still will be a winter long project.
Later!!
Anthony

Cub Flyer Fresno

OUCH!!! That REALLY SUCKS! Such a fine plane Anthony. I hate to see that happen to anyone that puts so much time, effort and love into a project like that. Here's an idea for you, how about an "AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 RE-Build" thread? That might be good for some of us newbies to see what we may have to do sometime in the future. (knock on wood... or balsa as it were.)

Take care,
David

P.S. At least it looks like your pilot survived. That's considered a good landing!

WacoNut

I will document the repairs as I go.
As soon as I get the Stick 30 built I will tear into the Waco and see what needs repaired/replaced and go from there.

mrdhud

My Feedback: (48)

Anthony,

I’m just sick for you I know the feeling all too well. When I tip stalled mine and busted her up I didn’t think I would ever be able to make the repairs but after a few weeks I started and she did fly again. I’m confident when the time is right you will make the repairs and she to will fly again.