LesUyeda

Some years ago, I became enamored of an aircraft called a Bucker Jungmeister D-EVEO. In doing the research, I found that it was based on the Bucker Jungmann.

The Jungmann was a two seater, with a flight mission and appearance very similar to the DeHavilland Moth, i. e., a basic trainer.

The Jungmeister was a redesigned Jungmann. Smaller, single seater, highly aerobatic aircraft, intended to teach fighter pilots aerobatics. D-EVEO had an in line engine. This evolved into the radial engined Jungmeister that was extremely popular, and successful in aerobatic competition.

Now for my problem: I keep seeing a single seater aircraft referred to as a Jungmann. It is not that the front cockpit is covered over, there is no front cockpit.

The Kit Building forum has one, and a 1994 book on aerobatics by Dave Patrick shows pictures of his "Jungmann". The kit sizes indicate an aircraft not even as large as the Jungmann, even though they are called that.

None of my searches have taken me to a single seated Jungmann.

Can any one enlighten me??

Les

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

I think the single seat, round cowl engine is the ONLY Jungmeister.. From what I have read over the years they are two different aircraft. I think there is some misunderstanding perhaps? I dont know of any jungman with an inline engine that was designed as a single seat. Perhaps some were converted to make them more aerobatic?.. They are more plentifull than the Jungmeister thats for sure. This link is a Bucker link.... check it out... all ( or most all ) are Jungmans..
http://sbeaver.tzo.com/bucker/
Regards BobH.

Lake Flyer

My Feedback: (13)

I don't know if this helps or not. The 2 place Bu 131 Jungmann had a span of 24' 3.25" and an inline engine.
The single place Bu133 Jungmeister had a span of 19" 8.25" and a round engine.
Some of the early Jungmeisters were made with inline engines (Bu 133 V.1). Is this what is leading to the confusion between the two versions?

r1morris

My Feedback: (1)

Here is a link to Williams Vintage Aircraft Photo Album. Do a search under Bucker and you will find restored aircraft of both types. You can even look at registry information and who owns the aircraft.
This site is great for pictorial research on many popular type aircraft. The nice part its free.
http://www.russellw.com/

LesUyeda

The Bu 133 V.1 is the one that I started with (my avatar). I was perhaps not clear. My understanding was that the designers took the Jungmann, redesigned it into a smaller, single seat version, and this was D-EVEO.

The thing that causes me confusion is this thread http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...44&forumid=107

I have been to almost every Bucker site that Google could find, Including Bobs.

Still confused

Less

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

Les, I see where your confusion started.. Its a goldberg kit that isn't authentic from a scale point of view. Their plane is a Jungman for a single pilot. I have never seen that type but. it could have been some modification by someone to have an aerobatic plane?..Your original thinking is correct.. Jungmeisters are single seaters and Jungmans are two place. The Jungmans were sold to the Luftwaffa as trainers in the 1930's. It was one of their primary trainers and subsequently thats why so many are still around. Jungmeisters were built in much smaller numbers and after WWII most went to Swiss registeries. They were so coveted that only Swiss citizens could buy them. There was ways around that and some came to the USA. I dont know if thats still the situation or not? There is an UK Company who restors Jungmeisters for sale, its called "the real aeroplane company" in Breighton. They had a web site.. I haven't visited it in a while but you can do a search via the web.. Regards BobH.

LesUyeda

Thanks, Bob. I will check it out.

Les

clifford

Here"s the new Top-Gun artf Jungmann ...flies superb with a 90 f/strke...auw is 10lbs.....profilm covered.....all buit up structure.....

Cliff

clifford

better shot....

pittsdriver

My Feedback: (7)

Less, What I think you are seeing is a couple of conversions done in Florida in the late 60s early 70s. They had horizontally opposed Lycomings on them and were single cockpit. One also had the wings clipped. They showed up at airshows but I can't remember who the pilots were. Delmar Benjamin owned one of them in the late 70s and after that they kind of disappeared. Don

LesUyeda

Clifford: Now that looks like what I think of when someone says Jungmann. This one even looks like the vertical stab has the right angle to the fuselage.

Don: What you say sounds reasonable, and that is probably where the Goldberg model came from.

Thanks all

Les

clifford

Wonder if you asked someone at Goldberg, would they know how the kit of this type of Jungmann came about??.......they must have got some info on the full size....

just a thought....Clifford

r1morris

My Feedback: (1)

clifford When the Jungman came out Dave Patric was the driving force at Goldberg he might be the one to ask.

JohnBlankenship

LesUyeda

I have a very old plan set from Aeromodeller for the Jungmeister. It is buried away somewhere here, but my recollection is that Jungmeister D-EVEO with the inline engine was a prototype, and that all production Jungmeisters had radial engines.

John Blankenship

CharlieK

The Jungmann was a two seat trainer, and the prototype Jungmeister had an inline engine on it. The production Jungmeister had a radial engine and was one seat. When the original Hirth engines for the Jungmann started to go away in the 60's they started to convert them to Lycoming flat 4's. They also modified some aircraft to a single seat configuration with symetrical wings, the work being done in Switzerland. The Goldberg airplane is not a scale Jungmann, just an rc lookalike designed to fly better aerobatics. There are photo's of single seat Jungmanns in the book Die Bucker-Flugzeuge by Irwin Konig. They might be available in the used book market. If you like the Bucker aircraft this book is a must have. I have collected info on these airplanes since the 50's and there is more in this one book than I have found anywhere else.
Charliek

CharlieK

Something I just remembered - Bob Holman has plans for a 1/4 scale Jungmann, and also a 1/4 scale version of the Jungmeister prototype. I have both and don't think the Jungmeister version is exact scale but you could combine it with the RCmodeler plans by Dave Platt and have a scale airplane. Or if bigger is better MAN has a 1/3 scale Jungmeister by Gary Allen and Arizona Aircrafters cuts a kit for it.
Charliek

LesUyeda

John. You are correct. D-EVEO was a "one of", and all following did have the radial engine.

CharlieK. I have old plans, cowling, and fenders for a 1/4 scale version, but I am currently designing and building a 1/6 scale, for electric. If Arizone Aircrafters that you refer to is really Arizona Models, I have not been impressed by what I have seen of them, or what I have heard about their service. I bought their cowling to make a vacuuming forming mold, and it was not even close to scale.

Les

CharlieK

There is also a set of plans on the AMA web site which are a smaller scale, I tried to download them and print them but couldn't get the whole page to print. Probably has something to do with computer competency. . I just got the kit from arizona, in the quoted time frame and the wood looks good. The cowling is close to what is on the Allen plans and although I have not compared it to the photographs I have it does not look correct, not enough curvature in the basic cowl. I think the most correct plans I have seen are Cox's from Aeromodeller, but his and the factory drawings do not match.
Charliek

LesUyeda

Charliek: I couldn't find the plans on the AMA site, but I didn't spend much time looking, either. I have found that most of the kits that have been put out are based on the 3 views published in Air Progress 1963. They are close, but have a number of glaring errors, and the D-EVEO was merely a modification of the Radial engine version they got from somewhere.

The Arizona Models cowling is too short, by a fair amount, and that puts the blisters too near the center of the cowling. If you lengthen the cowling by about 5/16" it will look better. Also, the fillet between the blisters and the cowling have much too large a radius. I don't know what can be done about that, and probably, only you and I will know the difference.

Les

CharlieK

Yessir,
The plans from air trails are way off, the fuselage shape is wrong and after that I gave up checking them. The ones from Bjorn Karlstrom out of M.A.N. may be more accurate, I haven't really looked at them that closely ( had them since the 50's ?). The Cox ones from aeromodeller seem to be best, you can get them from Bob Holman among other places. The Arizona cowl also hs the radius at the front of the cowling way to flat, the actual cowling is more rounded than the Gary Allen plans show. Unfortunately I lost my sample after obtaining only about 100 or so photos from it. If it was still here I could probaly take anther 200 and still have questions to be answered. I can't remember where in the plans section the AMA plans were, they look like same ones Aircraft Research LTD sells, and I think were originally for rubber power.
Charliek

Camel65

My Feedback: (10)

The full scale Jungmannn the Goldberg kit is modeled after was built up by Jim Moser of St Augustine, Fla. It used a flat Lycoming for power. There have been numerious BU-131's and 133's converted to flat engines as they are more powerful and a LOT easier to get parts for.

I believe there is a fellow out in California who has parts and drawings for the Buckers. I would like to obtain a set and build a very scale BU-133. Hmmmm with the plans for the full scale I might need a bigger shop would absolutely love to have the full scale Jungmeister.

The Goldberg Jungmann flies really well. I miss mine ( was stolen) but have plans to build another. I have thought about blowing the plans up some and scratching one out.

Here's a pic of a 133 with a flat engine in restoration.

Regards
Bill

Camel65

My Feedback: (10)

standard Jungmann

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

Bill... in looking at the flat engine installation on the BU 133. one cant help but notice that they kept the round cowl. That's a distinctive feature of the Jungmeister. I have see only one other with out a round cowl and that was in Sport Avaition and was fitted with a Turbe Charged Engine.. There is a company in the UK that builds and rebuilds Jungmeister and Jungmanns alike. I read about them in Fly Past a few years ago. Can't remember the name but maybe a net search will turn something up.... Regards BobH.

rayjay3

Hi, I have had a love affair with the Bucker Jungmeister for some 20 odd years. I built the 50" version from Hobby Lobby and I love it so much that I am afraid to fly it for fear of crashing it. It took me 1 year to build off and on. Would anyone know of a 30-35"version either kit or ARF. I feel if is smaller it would not break as badly. I am not a very good pilot. If there is such a bird out there I would buy it in a heart beat! It would have to be an Electric Park Flyer! If anyone knows of one please contact me at RayJay3optonline.net Thank you, Ray

JoeAverage

Here's a sweet model that was masterfully built. RCM pl-856. This model build is ongoing on RC Scale Builder. This is a 40.5" span with an Enya .25X. The builder is adding a radial and I can hardly wait to see his method.

It may be possible to lighten up the design to fly electric. I've seen some very nice looking little dummy engines made from balsa and bits. I would like one of these in electric as well.

Edited again to say that it looks just fine without any further engine treatment.