neons

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Here are some really well drawn plans I found. They are not Proctor but the references of details are very good, There is a 2 part sketch/plan drawn by Dave Finn & Lynch and Joe Campbell #10. It appears that Capt Joe Campbell had input here. One 2 part plan and sketch drawn by Joseph Nieto is from M.A.N. magazine 11-1950. The other was drawn in 4 beautiful detailed sheets by Bergen F.Hardesty in 1955. # 12 Eddie Rickenbacker. They could be blown up and actually used to build the plane.

Update on my Proctor kit. I am working on my elevator and rudder controls. No rush here. I think a few more details and I may cover the fuselage and wings. Then I will do the ailerons controls. I am busy enjoying a lot of flying in between as this slow change to spring is coming in. References are in my link address above. I hope someone enjoys these plans and sketches.
**Neons** Bob

TFF

Many thanks!

neons

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I got my Nieuport back down from storage during the flying season. I got the wings all covered this past week. I used Dave Brown Skyloft fabric on the wings. I finally figured a simpler way to use this hard to work with material . I put it on wet and stretched and pinned it. used thin CA glue. Worked real well. he CA turns whitish in areas but is smooth and will have no effect on the finish paint color. I will be in the painting mode next. Mostly fill primer to seal the pores. I still have more fuselage prep to do also. I can answer replys here as you can't ask anything in the other Forum.
As usual I am posting the Build Log at my Club Forum here.
http://forum.bristolcountyrc.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=91

The wing is still water damp and drying. It creates a darker wood grain photo. The others have been dry for some time now.

buzzard bait

I used Dave Brown Skyloft for one plane threw out what I had left over. The material is heavier per square inch than Sig Koverall even though it looks and feels light...but the balance tells the real story. Also, when it shrinks down the pores are uneven and some are large and hard to fill...more weight. The shrinkage can damage a light structure and once it is on wet you can't control it the way you can with heat shrink material like Koverall.

I realize my timing is bad since you've just used it, but I'm sure you can get a very good final result after filling, and it will shrink VERY tight with the method you used. But I would avoid using on the tail surfaces because of weight and possible warping when it shrinks.

Koverall is great to use and slightly lighter; if you want something really light, but very strong, then I recommend Polyspan. Both will heat shrink.

I'm sorry to speak badly of the material now that you've used it, but I've been on a little campaign against it ever since I tried it and weighed the material. Yes, you can get a good result, but there are much better and lighter materials.

Your wings look great! It will be a beautiful airplane.

Jim

neons

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Jim
Thanks for the input. I am sure the results you got using the Skyloft material were legitimately negative. I had two packets here and I did not want to throw it away. I have to consider the additional cost of the plane using the more expensive materials also. I even bought some Polyspan just incase I gave up on Skyloft application. Polyspan is not very tough in strength though.I just figured out how to use the Skyloft up very effectively. There is a grain in Skyloft also. Attention has to be given to that too. Thin CA glue application was the answer for me.

I did the fuselage early on last year using clear dope and I agree it was a hassle using this covering. I got it all on though. I used 3 coats of Aerogloss clear to seal it up. I do believe it is very light weight right now and looks and feels great. The wings are very light so far. I am going to spray the camo on using waterbase paint thinned out. I have used it before an all my past aircraft and like it a lot. Of course I am not flying any nitroplanes also so do not have to use fuel proofing paints. I will keep you posted on the outcome.
Cheers.

buzzard bait

Hi, I'm glad you like the results now that it's done and I'm sure you'll be happy with it in the end. I've used Polyspan on smaller planes and thought it was very tough once it had a few coats of dope, but maybe I wouldn't think so on a quarter scaler. I think Koverall is great. I've also used silk from Thai Silks a couple of times, and may use it again (but I'd use Dharma next time). Lots of people swear by Solartex, which I have not tried. I'm a little obsessive about weight on my small models, but I think the weight of the material probably doesn't matter on large models. That would make Solartex very attractive.

Great project...looking forward to seeing more!

Jim

neons

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Jim,
I was thinking about the Polyspan. I got it in and was concerned as it tears like silkspan and would not be a good choice after all on this size plane because of its strength. I have heard many of the light Solartex,Koverall, and others are real good. My skills with iron on anything is not the best. I am good with the older technics with silkspan days of the 50-60's. This Skyloft s like silkspan in many ways and also silk. I have a old CL stunter on my wall I made in 1962. It was silk covered. I have to be careful handling it as it is breaking down just with light touches.

I just covered an old wing to test out some painting other than the use of Aero-Gloss clear. I have put on 3 coats of Miniwax water polyurethane with a mix of Talcum powder. Light sanding and warm air blowing speeds up my painting. It all sealed up tight well and ready for spray painting. With water base paint it is low buildup and stays light weight also. i did find 3 pinholes that did not close up. i just rubbed it with white glue and it is gone. I sprayed the first coat but it was not as good as brushing as an initial coat. It creates minute droplets through the pores. The second and 3rd coat. It dried very smooth and feels the way I want it.The Talc helps alot. Fabric. Nice.

I agree with you on some downfalls using the Skyloft material. I have built many planes over the years and gained some experiences. I, like you would not recommend using this material if a builder never used this before and is not aware of some of the problems that will be encountered. The use of thin CA was a good way to get over the worst in applying the material. The others are smaller problems.

**Neons** Bob

buzzard bait

Hi Bob, I tried Skyloft for the same reason...I'm pretty old school when it comes to airplanes and finishing. However Koverall can be applied the old fashioned way too, which is how I do it...I use dope and thinner. I only use the iron to shrink it and to seal the edges, which works with just dope.

I apply Polyspan the same way...dope and thinner. Once doped, I think it is very strong, as long as you get the grain of the material going span-wise. On a stringered fuselage I guess you'd have to go perpendicular to the stringers...never tried that.

I used a lot of silkspan years ago so I know what it is like, but Polyspan is WAY stronger. Absolutely no comparison. I had some pretty serious crashes with no tearing or puncture in the Polyspan. It was a pretty small plane, 42 inch span, but I was so impressed I concluded it would work on much larger airplanes. Quarter scale? Not so sure, but it would certainly work on tail surfaces and it would help keep the tail light.

Thanks for your report on using talc and Minwax. I'm looking for a non-dope finish also. I have tried it on Polyspan and it sealed very quickly without talc. I used an iron to get it tight. It's great to exchange covering and finishing methods in these forums. Hardly anyone in my club bothers to paint anymore. Jim

Thanks for the responses and ideas.

Jim

neons

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Jim,
You have been very informative. I have only 3-4 people building planes in my club out of 35. So members look at my planes in disbelief at times with the out come. They are lucky ARFs and foamies are made. I do not know what they would do without them. Anyway I have 2 packets of Polyspan put aside for some project. I found out about the Koverite and Polyspan after I bought the Skyloft. I was out of balsa plane building for quite a few years. I was scratch building scale warplanes and seaplanes from foam. Now that I have the Nieuport I am back at it again with wood. I got a coat of paint on the wings today. I kept it as a dry wash to get the pores sealed with the talc. I did not want to keep wetting and tightening with a heavy coat of poly-u. It sealed up very well with a load of talc. It dried nice too. Very light #400 paper sanding here and there. Just will keep repeating until I get where I want it. It is low build up. It is still tight when dry. I think the Aero- gloss clear gives a tighter shrink finish though. I shall see.
Thanks also,
Bob

neons

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double

neons

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Hi Jim,
I have a picture here of my sealed wing panel. I tried to get a reflection to show what it looks like. It is very tight and waterproof now. This is as I say my first trial with Skyloft and I am happy with how it came out going at it almost blindly. It is as good as I have hoped for. Here is what I found out that made it succeed for me.

In applying the Waterbase clear Miniwax Poly-u it continues to wet the Skyloft and make it loose again. It was necessary to do it in order to get the pores in the material closed up with lots of talcum powder. I did all 4 panels of 8 sides and then hung them for the night using a 1 inch chip brush. I also did use my heat gun backed away to warm it up and evaporate the water and retighten up again before the next panel got a coat.The next day I repeated the same ritual and hung again. This was necessary because the wood was still damp. I just did not want to over shrink the material.

Next day I sanded every panel with 400 wet dry paper. The sealing looked good except a couple flaws that white glue and talc took care of. Waterbase poly does not allow the material to harden up to sand the fuzz off. The next 2 coats were shot with my small airbrush using Miniwax Oilbase Polyurethane. It took me about 2 hours to get it all done and I hung to dry. Before the next coat the paint tightened and waterproofed all the panels. I could sand the fuzz down now. The next coat was a repeat and that is where I am now. Skipped work today and I will sand tomorrow. I still do not recommend Skyloft for a newcomer.

I picked up some tan Behr paint sampler and I am going to do all the undersides with a light coat. It will be thinned about 50% and it will tint the finish.I will layout all the camo pattern and continue laying the colors. I am thinking doing the #12 Nieuport 28 scheme in the pictures. A tan paint chip is on the small wing panel.

I found that it is not necessary to use waterbase Polyurethane on silkspan as the initial coating as it will swell the silkspan. If I did use polyurethane I would use the oilbase to seal it after it is bonded. Maybe with a light added talc also. I have not tried too initially bond sikspan to a plane using polyurethane because the surrounding paper may dry faster than the paint. Maybe it will work. It is something I have to try. Once it is bonded (clear doped?) and sealed waterproof coat (oil Poly-u) I could then continue finishing a plane in waterbase finish. I have been doing it all along with foam models though with great success using 0.75oz. fiberglass cloth for additional strength.
**Neons Bob

Addendum
12/28/2013 Added the drawing I put together to use as a painting guideline for my model. I cannot vouch for accuracy as there are so many in circulation. most were found in search engines and forums on the net. It will be close enough for my model though.

buzzard bait

Glad it worked out for you, Bob. Behr paint should work out well. Are you going to fuel-proof it?

neons

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No need to fuel proof. It is all E-powered.
Bob

neons

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I was able to get more than half way done painting the plane. I have it here in the rough. I am adjusting decals to be made soon. Those are just printouts. I have many things to do yet. I have the struts and landing gear, and wheel paint to do, etc. I have to prime and paint the cowling white. The wind screen is no made yet. Covers for my control horns. The plane is amidst all that excess stuff around it on the table. which makes it a little hard to see. More info in my club postings. Link someplace before this post.

neons

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I have spent the last week doing the painting of all 6 roundels and making up the numbers sizes to fit properly. I got all those painted also. The only thing in a decal is the War Bond posters on the upper and lower wings. I have not done the Hat in the Ring logos yet along with the fuselage numbers. I am undecided yet as to hand painting them or making decals. I still have to paint all the underside tan with another coat. Then when the plane is all finished painting it will get a clear seal coat overall.


If interested in making decals I can tell you how I made these using white Japanese tissue by reading it here.
http://forum.bristolcountyrc.org/vie...=91&p=553#p553

Or learn here. It works.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1217546

**Neons** Bob

neons

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Nieuport 28c 1/4 Scale- Mount wings, setup wires, and leveling
Spent the 4th of July working on the wire stays. The weather is raining as an offshore hurricane Arthur passed well off. After mounting the lower wing the upper fuselage to the lower wing stays are installed. The upper wing is bolted to the center struts. The Cabane struts force pressure to the lower wing when forced into place. The lower stays hold firm and the pressure forces the upper wing to form a dihedral as per the plan. Then all the rest of the wire stays go in place but just snug.

Next I used 2 aluminum flat flat trims from a window ad lashed them to the wings upper and lower. The fuselage tail was blocked up to a level state. I put a small machinist and carpenters level on the aluminum trim flat stock. Level the wings for straightness and repeat the both sides upper and lower. After it is all tuned I have to lace a fine wire through each turnbuckle to lock them in place so they do not unscrew in flight from vibration. Sure looks purrty. Still have more to do. Mostly details.

neons

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Happy 4th of July Everyone,
Got the wing wire stays on with well secured wings now and I shot an outdoor group of pictures. Here are a few.
1/4 Scale Nieuport 28c - WWI Ace- Eddie Rickenbacker scheme with War Bond posters on the wings as the original had. 80" span. Many details to finish yet.
Build log here
http://forum.bristolcountyrc.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=91

Great Weekend. Enjoy.