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Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

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Old 06-11-2009, 09:52 AM
  #26
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

Any more progress? Patiently waiting to see the building thread and to get ideas when I start my one piece byron hopefully in the fall.
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Old 07-15-2009, 10:14 AM
  #27
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

Hey Bob, I'm finishing the plug-in wing P-51 and I'm curious to know what sequencing system you are using for your LG, also on the sequencing, when the doors come down followed by the gear, do the doors go back up?
Thank you
Frank Rega
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:57 PM
  #28
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

Hi Frank
Yes gear doors close once gear is extended. I'm using the UP2 valve which does not require a special servo. Single servo, set gear and door speeds via needle valves...which are part on the UP2. Check out links

Mike
http://www.dreamworksrc.com/catalog/...roducts_id=206
http://www.rcscaleproducts.com/retract_acc.htm
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Old 07-21-2010, 01:03 PM
  #29
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

Ok, guys!
After the long wait and stuff I am back on the project. Please don't expect me to get her done in a month though LOL. I had to get some of the cones for the wing hold downs but couldn't find any. So, I made a mold of the original and casted new ones with fiberglass. They turned out great and look just like the original but clear.
I had to fill in all of the dents and scrapes on the foam parts. This plane had soooo much hangar rash because it had been going from garage to garage for the last 25 years. I used Dap lightweight filler. I put a coat on all of the dents and dings, waited over night and sanded with 220 grit sandpaper. I had to do that 3 times and took about a week.
I had to cut and make all of the retract ribs by hand because they were missing in the kit. Thank goodness I had the original plywood where they were originally taken out for a pattern. I have to install them now but am having problems with the joining of the wing. mainly where to cut the flap covers and the flap anchor supports.
Does anyone have any pictures of the center section of the wing (preferably pre glassed) top and bottom and some good pictures of the retract wells? On the plans it shows the pattern for the spar but on the other part of the directions it shows the spar in a different shape with a piece of probably 1/4"x1/4" stock glued to the top of it. The plans and directions are a bit confusing for this part but the rest of the build is very strait forward.
Jeff
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Old 08-14-2010, 03:56 PM
  #30
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

Do you know any one that would like to purchase a Byron Originals Corsair NEW STILL IN THE BOX . Including in the price is a new 4.2 Sachs with CH ignition, front Robart retractable landing gear and a Byron gear for the tail. It also has a full cockpit and the original Byron three bladed prop and purr-power muffler system. 

For More Information I can be reached at rpramirez@sbcglobal.net or (714) 686-4713.
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:10 AM
  #31
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

Wow, this has been a real roller coaster ride hiatus!!
you guys wouldn't believe it but I re-started the build 2 months ago. I was having major problems with getting started on this kit. I have one of the first generation kits with the really vauge, crappy instruction booklets. No pictures, just words and alot of things to do were just simply left out. Man, everytime I walked by that box in my shop and seen that big ol green tail sticking out of it all I could think about was getting started on it again and the people that have helped me with this project. But with those directions that I had and no experience in glassing, I was very apprehesive about doing this because this is a ONE TIME deal, if it gets screwed up, there is really no replacing individual parts. So it just sat there.
About 3 months ago, I stumbled upons some directions that someone placed here on RCU that I did not know existed! There they were, in all of their glory, pictures, detailed instructions on the build and they were produced in 1987. Thank you, LUFT-GANSTER!!!
I emediately printed them all up and made a book. I studied it for about 3 weeks and started my build.
Almost everything on my build is documented as well as I could with pictures and video. Now since the fabrication part of my build is almost complete, I can relax and start posting pics and videos of the build here on this thread that I started 5 1/2 years ago. There will be no more delays because all of the hard parts of the build are done and finish work begins (the fun part for me)! I really want this plane to be done by September if at all possible.
Jeff
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:09 AM
  #32
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

To start everything off, I had to get into the building mode again. Not ARF building mode but REAL building mode. So, I had a great planes easy sport 40 lying around that my cousin gave me some years ago. I didn't really want to build it but kindof felt obligated because it was given to me. Off I went building it. lo and behold, I really started getting the bug and lots of enthusiasm developed by the day. I found myself working on it almost every night until it was finished. I didn't like the stock rudder, elevator and ailerons so I supersized them and made the plane my own. Also, it was supposed to be a tri-gear and I like tail draggers so I changed that also. The landing gear are from a Thunder tiger trainer and the wheel pants are from a Phoenix models SU 26. Here are a few pictures of the airframe and completed plane. The muffler is polished with a wheel and rouge! Haven't maidened it yet though.
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:29 AM
  #33
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

To start off, I had to work with a really crappy set of wings. Dirty, already started 30 years ago etc, etc. With the new directions came more enthusiasm. On the wings, you have to remove some of the foam on the inside of the wheel wells so the retract well and retracts will fit. The original owners did this but didn't take out enough foam then they glassed over them. After 30 years, all of the finishing epoxy turned dark brown and very brittle. I had to take a dremel tool and take more out. This is just the start of this nightmare lol!
you can see the instruction booklet I made in the left corner of the pic here. This pic shows the wings at the start. The spar is also installed in this picture.
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:37 AM
  #34
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

My kit only had 1 rear hold down cone so I had to make a new one. I made a mold of the original and casted a new one. There is a video of it on you tube. Almost all of this build is on youtube under
http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?o=U
cones part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y-g0uFGDy8
cones part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_yAah2coJM
cones part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9W1QoVuuS8
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:54 AM
  #35
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

with this kit, almost everything was designed a bit oversized and you would glue the pieces in, then trim them off. This is ok but isn't precise - LOTS of fabrication.
On the retractable gear mounts, I had to fabricate a couple of new ribs. It was amazing that right out of the factory, the right and left halves were not even close to the same! Oh well, that is what happened before computers and precision lazer cutters. If anyone is building one of these, the directions and the plans say where to glue in the mounting blocks on the ribs for the retracts I suggest that you glue them maybe a 1/16" deeper than suggested so that the gear mount plate will be below the skin of the wing when finished.
The front of that rib doesn't look very nice and I took a dremel with a sanding drum and made it look better before installing it in the wing. A 5/8" dowel cut to length goes there and against the front of the inside of the leading edge of the wing. Make sure to double check the fit before glueing it in!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WakievP8VPc
there are several videos on this and more.
when I downloaded thes videos, I didn't really edit them because there was so much and it would have taken forever to do so. As a result, I just uploaded them in order, raw. So, if it gets boring, just fast forward them.
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:56 AM
  #36
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

On those support ribs, don't forget to drill a 1/2" to 3/4" hole in the rear section of them so you can route the aileron servo extention I almost forgot to do that!
I don't really know why they designed a bolt to go through the top of the wing into the mounting block of the retract mounts. I didn't really think it was necessary but I did it anyway. Here are a couple of pics of the install.
You can see how they are installed here. Also, there are some 4-40 bolts and nuts going through them to make them stonger so you only have to use ca to glue the blocks one. The holes drilled for the aileron servo extensions are out of the camera's view. The blocks are drilled and tapped for a 10-32 nylon bolt for the retracts. Nylon bolts are a very good idea here. I would rather the bolt break on a bad landing than to tear apart that foam wing!
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:22 AM
  #37
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

The next step was to place the inserts in the places on the wing skins. For the retractable version it says in the directions that these inside covers are not necessary and just to use the larger plywood (1/32") over it as a skin. I really wanted more strength and didn't feel that there would be enough so I installed them anyway. My wing is still very light.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:29 AM
  #38
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

Here is the bottom of the wing showing the fixed landing gear hole covered up. The directions said nothing about puting this piece in either but is was very flexible there and weak so I installed it anyway. Later the wheel well covers will cover this area.
You can also see the hole in the rib where the aileron extention lead goes through. Also you can see the outboard end of the wing spar up against the inboard rib.
If you look real close, you can see that I re-fiberglassed the areas where I had to re-grind out so the wheel well covers would fit.
I also put some fiberglass up against the ribs too for more strength.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:43 PM
  #39
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

The plastic wheel wells came in two pieces. There was a front (the main one) and a trailing edge piece. The trailing edge one was made to cover up the edge of the foam on the trailing edge side of the wheel well. I did not have these so I just installed the wheel wells that I had and put some 1/64" plywood along the edge for cosmetic and a bit of strength. In this picture, you can see that installed, the wheel wells installed and the wing hold down cone in place. Some of the spackling was done here and it is starting to look really nice.
I have video of all of this being done on youtube. I kindof wish that I would have taken more pictures for RCU but is was mainly a video documentary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAgUSmGOdS0
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:58 PM
  #40
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

Here is some pictures of the completed wing before glassing. The spackling is done and is ready for glass. I really wanted to at least get the ailerons and flaps totally installed before glassing because I knew that I would have to trim the trailing ege of the flap hinge covers in order to fit the wing to the fuselage. Although the directions call for glassing before this step, I chose to complete the wing and install the wing before glassing and I am sure glad I did that. If I were to follow the directions to a tee, I would have glassed the wing and then had to cut up all that glass work to intall the wing.
Some people would wonder if the spackling would degrade the structural integrity of the wing when it is going to be glassed and the answer is yes if the spackling is too thick. If it is too thick, the laminating resin will not soak completely through it and into the foam and it could just pull away. I was aware of this when I used this light weight spackle. It is on there very thin. so thin in some areas where it is hard to see if it is even there. So, the resin will soak through it and into the foam creating a very lightweight and stong bond. Then the wing was sanded with a t-bar flat. I DID NOT do any shaping. just sanded enough to make the surfaces even and flat where they are supposed to be. Then the wing was installed on the plane, taped down and the aileron and flap trailing edges were trimmed to shape. The last thing to do was to sand the thickness of the ailerons and flaps to match the width of the hinge covers and to install the inboard flap supports. These supports were way off and I had to make several of them to get the hole drilled in the right spot. One would put the flap up to high the other would anchor it too low. Thank goodness I have a band saw and big belt sander LOL! When this was done, I was rewarded with a 3/32" gap on the top of the ailerons/flap hinge cover line and on the bottom. this leaves me just enough room for 1 layer of 2oz cloth.

be sure to follow this video documentary on youtube. It has alot more detail than what I am describing here.
http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?o=U
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:27 PM
  #41
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

The original byron wing called for torque tubes for the ailerons leading to 1 servo controlling both ailerons in the middle of the wing. Even though this plane only flys about 85 mph, that little servo really had to labor for this job and all of the slop lead to flutter. So it called for a counter weight to help that laboring servo. BAD IDEA! I have heard of some guys loosing their planes due to this system failing. Most guys now are intalling servos for ailerons in the wings. That is what I did here. I chose a spot and built boxes for them and the servo tray is also the cover.
I am using hitech 5496mg for the ailerons - way overkill but I wont have to worry too much about flutter and I will not have to install those counterweights in the ailerons.
Here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19lRtamjOCU
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Old 06-30-2013, 07:12 AM
  #42
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

The fuselage was very heavy with the byrodrive unit in it and was very hard to manage. So a stand had to be built and the engine removed. This took a few hours but was well worth it. I made the stand out of some old heavy walled PVC pipe that I had from a stand that came with my Great Planes Seawind and some blue foam from Lowe's hardware store. I am going to pad the inside of the cutouts for the fuselage before I paint it and it seems to be tough enough to use for transportation, assembly and mechanics in the shop and at the feild.
stand part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad74GeK08CA
stand part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpK5318-yVM
stand part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axoPltFysGQ
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Old 06-30-2013, 03:18 PM
  #43
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

Here are a couple of vids of constructing the aileron servo pockets. Part one shows how the wing fits to the fuse.
part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg7ETz0YQq8
part 2 and 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIYe_iDeBEE
part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19lRtamjOCU
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Old 06-30-2013, 03:20 PM
  #44
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

Now contstructing the aileron servo covers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B5O6IMSxm8
When constructing these, make sure to sand them flat on the top, do not taper the ends or round the corners.
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Old 06-30-2013, 03:26 PM
  #45
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

Here is the last video before the wing gets glassed. It shows all of the work that I did to this wing including cosmetic and structural in detail.
It is finally taking shape!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aKdsiR4NW0
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Old 06-30-2013, 03:45 PM
  #46
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

Lets jump to the contruction of the tail feathers. Here they are all layed out on a towel. At this point, all of the flight surfaces are foam and a bit delicate so I have been using a towel to protect them. The hinge covers were cut back in 2009 when I attempted to start this build.
On the original directions that I had, it never mentioned to put aileron stock on the trailing edge of the elevators. The newer direction book that I got shows that and of course, I did not have that so off to the hobby shop I went! I have glued the aileron stock on the elevators at this point.
I did not have the longer spar with this kit either but had the center, shorter one. haveing that length and a set of calipers, I was able to measure the width of the fuse at the spot of the spars and determine the length of the longer spar. It was tapered, marked and installed on one side.

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Old 06-30-2013, 03:55 PM
  #47
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

The two piece fuselage has to be ready to accept the tail feathers by being temporarily set. I put the byrofoam collar in the front half of the fuse and pulled it back untill it was very tight. It was then marked with a pencil around where the edge of it was. It was then removed and that area that was inside the mark was sanded with 80 grit sandpaper. It was then installed using 15 minute epoxy. Only install the collar in the font half of the fuse!!!!
After the epoxy is cured, the aft fuselage piece is slid on. The tighter that this piece goes on, the better and tighter the seam. Mine turned out great. Then it is taped on for removal later when all of the internal things such as the retract mount, elevator horns etc are fed through and hooked up.
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Old 06-30-2013, 04:07 PM
  #48
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

At the attatchment points of the horizontal stabs, there are some marks where you have to dremel out. Don't be afraid to make these oversize. Usually a tight fit is necessary but not here, it is alot easier to install and adjust when the fit is sloppy. also, dremel out a spot for the elevator control horn bracket before you permanently install the horizontal stab. I didn't do this and it was a lot harder to do then if I had done it before hand. Just read the directions and follow them to a tee on this part of your build.
I did a mock up install and tried the stab on one side, then on the other, taped them together, tweeked them here and there untill I was satisfied with the fit. This took along time, it just didn't seem to want to be straight!!! I finally got it and glued in one side, but you dont glue the spars to the fuse just yet, just the butt of the stab to the fuse.
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Old 06-30-2013, 04:21 PM
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

When that one side sets, it is time for the other side. It is really important to get this right before you glue it permanently I cannot stress this enough. Normally when you set the horzontal stab to the fuse, the fuse is rigid and has very little adjustment. Here the fuse can be rotated either way on that byrofoam collar, the spars can be adjusted up or down and when the byrofoam post is installed, it can be set in there a way to tweek the upright verticle stab. Lots of little things like this that make this plane a challenge to build. I forgot to mention that I temporarily installed the byrofoam post in the verticle stab to help alignment before I started installing the horizontal stab.
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Old 06-30-2013, 04:27 PM
  #50
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Default RE: Building the original Byron P-51 Mustang

I put a t pin up on top of the verticle stab and connected a string to it. Using the string and lots of tape, I was able to get the alignment I wanted both vertically and horizontally and with the canopy base, wing saddle etc. Once satisfied with the fit, I glued the other side on. It is within a 32nd difference from side to side. Like I said this took me a long time to do and I was VERY frustrated at this point. Then out of the blue, it just fit. Wow what a test on my patience.
After the glue set up on the second half, I installed the hinge covers and the spar covers.
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