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  1. #151
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    As to the question of whether the lower wing also has washout (as per the original), the answer is clear in the photo below. The way the kit employs elevated construction and tabs on the tips of the ribs makes this a no-brainer.
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  2. #152
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    PROBLEM FOUND. Ok, so as I'm gluing the spar jacks and the spars to the glass, I'm asking myself: "Hmm...what's that black line running through the middle of the wing plan?" A moment's contemplation showed it to be indicating the line of the aileron servo extension leads. BUT, THERE ARE NO HOLES IN THE RIBS for the aileron extension leads!!! [sm=omg_smile.gif]

    This needs to be remedied on the kit.

    I'm glad I caught this now as it would have been a pain to try to cut them later after the ribs were glued in!
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  3. #153
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    Hmm...I'm also thinking that since the wing is so transparent, that I'm going to want to hide this servo extension wire as much as possible. I might run it through a small diameter paper tube.

  4. #154

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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    Because the wing has capstrips, I would run the wires along the back spar and either paint the to match the wood or run a strip of wood making a L with the spar to hide the wire. That wing is so thin you are going to have to build the wires in while building the structure. You could also box the wire in the spar. Making a hole to pull a plug through all the ribs would be pushing it.

  5. #155
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    ORIGINAL: TFF
    Because the wing has capstrips, I would run the wires along the back spar and either paint the to match the wood or run a strip of wood making a L with the spar to hide the wire. That wing is so thin you are going to have to build the wires in while building the structure. You could also box the wire in the spar. Making a hole to pull a plug through all the ribs would be pushing it.
    For sure making a round hole big enough to pull a standard extension plug through would be pushing it. But a rectangular slot might be ok. At any rate, I was planning on using the servo wire I bought when I was working on the Snipe rather than a commercial extension lead. But you're right that I'll need to build it in. Though I always like to make stuff like this interchangeable if possible, so I might still want to be able to thread the wire through the wing after it's been covered.

  6. #156

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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    I know the need for maint. I cut a servo wire in a wing while repairing some damage but did not know until I got to the field. I was lucky that it was the servo instead of the extension because the extension was built in. Adding connectors after threading wire through would not be bad.

  7. #157
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    In laying out the ribs for the bottom wings I've run into a problem with one of the parts (laminated rib LR-14) and some confusion with how the parts fit together. The first problem is that the balsa rib for LR14 seems to also include the section for partial rib LR13, which is included as a separate part in the kit. So this tail end of LR-14 needs to be cut off at the location of the third (balsa) spar. Next the ply part of LR-14 (LR-14p) has a wide notch cut for a section of spar with ply doublers, but the balsa rib is only cut for the normal spar width. This needs to be filed out. Finally, it's unclear (to me at least) why the notch on LR-14 is on the top of the rib, since presumably the section of extended spar on the other side of the servo hatch should be at the same height as the rest of the spar.

    In short, huh? [sm=confused.gif][sm=confused.gif][sm=confused.gif]

    Finally, there appears to be a problem with the servo arm striking one of the ply parts in the servo hatch. I'll need to think about the geometry of how this will work out (pull-pull cables from the servo arms operate the bellcrank on the top wing ailerons). There may, in fact, not be a problem here as the servo may be elevated above the hatch just enough for the arm to move just enough to get just enough movement on the bellcrank. I would imagine that a little bit of movement goes a long ways!
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  8. #158
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    Another couple of small problems with laminated lower rib LR-2. The balsa rib is cutout for the main spar, but the ply rib isn't. Also, while the rib itself seems to be the right size, the tab on the rib tip is short and location of the tab is unmarked on the plans (whereas this appears in shadow for all the other tabs). These are very minor things easily remedied but they should be noted and resolved for future kits.

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  9. #159
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    While I was, for a while, very interested in the idea of having a fully functional aileron rigging system with the servos in the fuse and cables running along the top of lower wing, the practicalities of that, particularly since I need the wings to be removable, seemed overwhelming. Though, no doubt, GianFrancisco managed that on his CIII.

  10. #160
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    The German builder, Tom, has a little laundry list of things that are not quite right with the lower wing parts. All small peanuts but things that shouldn't slip past the prototype stage. Chris has been very good about updating the kits.

  11. #161
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    The area around the servo hatch looks so deceptively simple on the plans. But I'm still trying to sort out with piece goes where and what part is which. And which parts may not be quite right! Nothing like a good mystery!

    Slowly, it's coming together. I think I have all the puzzle parts identified now and even know how some of them fit. But there are several problems with the outside rib, LR-14. Tom says it needs to be "cut through" and the nose of the rib also needs to be removed (see the red circles). According to Tom the servo hatch (provide as a CNC cut part in the kit) is 3mm too long. So far I don't see that problem but probably will later.

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  12. #162
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    Tom and I have just about come to the conclusion that this servo area of the lower wing construction needs to be re-thought. And maybe we'll need to go all the back to square one. And for me square one is always the original aircraft. That gives us the scale locations for the 13th rib (counting the root rib), the outer strut attachment point (about 1/3 of the distance between the 13th rib and the wingtip), and the location for the aileron cables, which appear to travel UNDER the lower wing to a hole just inside of the strut location.

    The sticky problem here is where to put the servo in such a thin wing. At present the kit places the horizontally positioned servo horn as close as possible to the scale location. But that puts the servo squarely in the middle of the main spar. So the kit has attempted to work around this by building a secondary box around this area. Unfortunately, at present, one side of the box seems to be ultimately anchored primarily on the wingtip. This may be strong enough to do the job, but it's clearly not ideal. But even after a lot of thinking, I can't think of any more solid way of keeping the servo in this same position.

    Which brings us to a second option: Move the servo. But to where? I see two fundamental choices, either place the servo close to the spar but not cutting it (not ideal in terms of scale accuracy) or move the servo elsewhere and figure out a connection to the pull-pull cables. One thought would be to set up what is, in effect, a closed loop cable system within each wing. That's as far as I've gotten on the thinking with that idea.


  13. #163

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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    My Dr1 will have servos set like that, but it is a much thicker wing. My SE5a has a thin wing like that; the servos are in the center of the wing inside the fuselage with the traditional wire to bellcrank out the wing. Not my favorite. Better would be a Nyrod that traveled down the front spar and arced to the point out of the wing. Not invisable, but better than seeing a servo in the wing with the transparent covering. I used 2 servos so you can still do radio magic.

  14. #164

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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    I agree with you about the cap strips for the ribs; for my very thin ribs I too was forced to make that with strips of 3x1mm. of light wood (lime?).
    About the linkage for the ailerons: as you can see from my plan, it was not the most difficult thing to make: a bellcrank in each bottom wing root is linked by a push rod to the corresponding servo in the fuselage; from the bellcrank two lines (10 lbs. fishing trace) arrive to the upper wing aileron via two pulleys that allows the 90° change of direction; each line has a small turnbuckle for the proper tension.
    To connect and disconnect the push rod from the servo I used a clever Sullivan "Ball Connector W/ Locking Sleeve" of the plastic type; all worked OK a and the dismantling of the wings from fuse let the whole "sistem" of each pair of half wings rigged up:
    The problems I have found are:
    - I had to change the servos whith a more poweful type to compensate the friction and allow the "zeroing";
    - due the more powerful pull action of the servo, the two plastic connectors were pulled out from the threads so I had to glue them to the rods; just now I see that Sullivan has made "Aluminum Ball Connector W/ Locking Sleeve"; I have to get two of them!
    Gian

  15. #165
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    No building today. Just pondering. There appears to be some convenient space in more or less the right place in the fuselage if I decided to relocate the aileron servos there, with something like the connection described by Gian. I hate to have to go "off track" with this prototype build but what's good for my CI may also turn out to be good for the kit.

  16. #166
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    Right, so here's my tentative reconstruction of the servo hatch area. I created new versions of ribs LR12 and LR13. Both are 3mm balsa laminated to 1/16" ply (similar to the root ribs). The ply reinforcing ribs are facing each other (i.e. on the "outside" of LR12 and the "inside" of LR13. Then I made two new partial ribs out of 1/8" ply. Seen from the top, there will be a gap about 1/8" - 1/4" wide for the cable exits from the servo horn to the top wing bellcrank. Obviously there will need to be some packing around various parts so that this is flush with the surface. Nothing's glued in yet and I still need to cut the slots for the short support beams, but this looks like it's going to work.

    I believe this should be more robust that the original design solution and is actually more scale since rib LR-13 is now a full rib in its scale location. Part of it will need to be cut away (along with the spar section between the ribs) but this will be covered by the cap strips (which I may do with hardwood), which will superficially hide the gap.

    I thought long and hard about mounting the servos inside the fuselage or even between ribs LR1 and LR2 (vertically with the horn protruding out the bottom of the wing), but that would really be a major redesign and I wouldn't want to do that without involving Chris (who's current on vacation). Besides, there is a HUGE convenience factor in having the serovs out in the wings and not having to deal with long, detachable cables and this is probably best for a kit. Besides, if I really wanted to go all out, I would have done the wire TE. Also in terms of the aesthetics of having the servo visible through the translucent covering, no problem there. It turns out the servo is located directly under the black cross so it won't be seen at all! Nice, huh?


    ***

    Now that I think about it, I should probably add the non-scale ply riblet at the position outside of LR-13 to further support this outer section of spar since the outer strut will be attached there. I also need to make space for the ply spar doublers at this location.
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  17. #167
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    Here's pretty much the final redesigned servo bay area.
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  18. #168
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    The plans recommend the HiTEC HS-82MG Micro servo, but the local shops don't seem to have them in stock. So, I'm thinking of maybe using the Futaba S3150 SLIM instead.
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  19. #169
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    The left side of the photo below shows the ways the kit currently does the aileron servo installation and the RIGHT shows my redesigned version. They don't look so very different but I feel the way I've done mine is stronger and just a bit more scale. To be honest, I just couldn't figure out how the other parts were supposed to fit together.
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  20. #170
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    Hi Don,

    Why don't you use the Hitec HS-125MG Slim Wing servo? I used two of them in my SE-5a wings. These are verry fine and compact servo's.

    See for the dimensions the Hitec servo chart



    Teus

  21. #171
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    Don you have two left sides .Yours is ? sides .

  22. #172
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    ORIGINAL: Teus
    Why don't you use the Hitec HS-125MG Slim Wing servo?
    That does look VERY nice and I like the way they mount! However, the way the top is shaped on the HS82 might be advantageous for the CI installation. Remember that for the CI, the two-armed servo horn needed to be parallel to the servo hatch. Gonna have to think about this!

    http://www.hitecrcd.com/servos/show?name=HS-125MG

  23. #173
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build


    ORIGINAL: grover1

    Don you have two left sides .Yours is ? sides .
    Mine is the CORRECT side, of course!

  24. #174
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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    Choices, choices, choices! [:@]

    The HS-82MG is certainly a good price at around $22 as compared with the pricey Futaba digital servo at $60! The HS-125MG is right in the middle at $35. In terms of torque, the HS-82MG provides 38.88oz, teh HS-125MG 41.6, and the Futaba S3150 51.4oz.

    I notice that in the tech notes on the Tower Hobbies website, for the Futaba S3150 it says to avoid long leads. That's not good.

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  25. #175

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    RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build

    The big thing to remember is even though they have a bunch of torque the gears are small so miss-handleing can cause stripping. I have not stripped any of my HS-81s even though they have hit the ground a couple of times[:@]. They will be turned into throttle servos or change the gears as precautions. I have new 82MGs for the Dr1. They are all great servos; I am just to cheap to put digitals in a WW1 plane.


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