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  1. #26
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    ORIGINAL: Airwarrior

    Great looking plane, but Mr. Pilot doesn't look too healthy! Tell that chap to straighten up!
    But he'll look great on the top end of that Immelmann! But, yeah, Teus, thanks for posting those photos. I just keep feeling that the 770 is WAY to much engine for a 1/4 model but seeing it in an EIII makes me think it's got to be in the right range and shouldn't be too big for something like a Pup at long as I only planned to use maybe about 1/4 throttle. So maybe I do "need" one.

    BTW, Teas, do you know if any of the guys using Seidels on their WWI models are using them with "collection rings" ("ringscharrdΓ€mpher")?

  2. #27
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    BTW, compare and contrast: 1) 1/4 scale EIII with $1000+ functional radial engine and 2) my 1/6 scale EIII with $25 dummy covering a $120 Magnum engine!
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  3. #28

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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    Don, something to consider about Seidel engines. Where to you get it fixed when its needed??? If the service from Seidel is as bad as reported then what?
    BobH.

  4. #29

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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    Allright Don......will you PLEASE just forget the romance of and dreaming about, using the Seidel.......
    Proctor had one in a 1/4 scale Neuport 28 that was successful and flew very well (Dick Hansen flew it & I have a video of it)
    Charlie Nelson used that engine successfully in a Waco model that was in a lot of contests including Top Gun. He found the engine very reliable.
    I had one of the original ST-770 and it was a beauty. But I, like everyone else, admired the craftsmanship then ran it and marveled at how well it functioned before I put it up to display it.
    I had the intentions of putting it in the Proctor N28 because the design of the model was well suited for adapting that motor to it and Proctor had a motor mount available for it.
    My 2cents

  5. #30

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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    Reg buddy. Please post the vid of the Seidel in the neuport.
    BobH.

  6. #31
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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    Don a G 38 is way more than adequate for a pup, The Seidel would be a treat in one built with the nose the correct length though and ballast probably wouldnt be a requirement. It would take throttle management not to fly the wings off it though. The reduction drives you keep mentioning are really for 1/3 scale models where a 30 inch prop is desired. One turning a 24 or 26 inch prop on a 1/4 scale would be perfect as most of the rotarys spun an 8 foot prop.
    Doc
    Happy landings, Doc Hou Tx
    The second rule of modeling is there is no such thing as an insignificant savings in weight

  7. #32
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    ORIGINAL: Reg Hinnant
    Allright Don......will you PLEASE just forget the romance of and dreaming about, using the Seidel.......
    I'm really working hard to get past the "romance" of having a Seidel and trying to decide rationally if there is an advantage to using one. I do believe that the Seidel is currently the most economical radial current available...by several hundreds of dollars. The fact is that I just wouldn't pay $1,500 for an engine...let along $2000 or $4000! But at about $1000 the Seidel is within range (as a one time purchase to be used on a number of models over the years). But then for the same money I could get three DLE engines and keep them in three models.

    In terms of scale appearance, as I illustrated above, a good quality dummy engine will be more scale than the Seidel (but the Seidel definitely looks more scale than any of the other radial engines). But there's a certain scale quality to having a functioning round engine even if it's not quite scale. Curiously, I find the 7-cylinder 770 to look "more scale" than the 9-cylinder Seidel. The 990 just looks "too busy" in a WWI cowl and looks more like a Pratt and Whitney. The space between the cylinders on the 770 gives more of the impression of the space on a 9-cylinder LeRhone or such.

    But I, like everyone else, admired the craftsmanship then ran it and marveled at how well it functioned before I put it up to display it.
    Yeah, I just wouldn't have the heart to put a Seidel in a "cage." I'd have to let it "run free." I mean, if it really loves you, it'll come back right?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaOki5eGvy0

  8. #33

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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    Don, I got an email from Hobbyking. They have a Seidel 770 radial in stock for $1199. You can check it out
    BobH.

  9. #34
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    ORIGINAL: BobH
    Don, I got an email from Hobbyking. They have a Seidel 770 radial in stock for $1199. You can check it out
    I've gotten a slightly cheaper quote directly from UMS. But this is without doubt the cheapest (a relative term of course) radial engine available. But then most people are saying you have to have a collection ring which adds another couple of hundred dollars.

  10. #35
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    So here's another way to think about it (i.e. another way to rationalize the purchase). The Seidel might cost me $1000 but if these engines have a pretty good resale value so even if I only got $500 for it down the road, I'll still only have paid $500 for the fun of flying with one. And if I do decided to keep it longterm then $1000 is not such a bad investment for a guy who loves WWI models.

  11. #36

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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    You buy one and I will give you $500 for it the next day!

  12. #37
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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    Do I at least get to run the engine? Or do I just have to stare at the box? I'll be selling my Leica (hopefully this summer) and I imagine I'll end up losing perhaps $300 on the deal after a few years. But that's well worth it for a chance to shoot with this legendary camera. I figure the Seidel will be similar. That's assuming, of course, that I don't fly it into the ground, which is always a possibility. Not much chance of that happening with a Leica!

  13. #38

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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!


    Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and go for it [sm=thumbs_up.gif]
    Just get it and enjoy! Or save it for that special model down the road.
    Chances are the more you contemplate it, the harder you might be able to justify the investment.

    On the subject of what model to power, the following might be a useful reference:
    An article in the may issue of RCM&E mentions a 1/3 scale (153", 50 lb) albatross CIII powered by a ZG 62 fitted with a reduction drive.
    The ZG 62cc power output is 4.3 hp (standard silencer) or 6.6 hp (tuned pipe).

    On that basis the 4 hp ST 7-70 might be a slight overkill for anything but a very heavy draggy 1/4 scale but then again it doesn't need to be flown full blast, and it would certainly help with the balancing!

  14. #39
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    ORIGINAL: Trev
    Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and go for it [sm=thumbs_up.gif]
    Here's my Rationalization of the Day: Lots of guys spend Big Bucks on fancy radios. I don't. I've always flown with a basic $200 radio. Lots of guys spend Big Bucks on kits. I don't. WWII guys regularly drop $300+ on retracts. Not us WWI types. The craziest I've gotten is spending $100 on a pair of spoked wheels.

    Thus: I deserve a Seidel!

  15. #40
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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    Sure is a pricey way to put ballast in an airplane but OH the sound. Abu you justify it as well as I 've ever seen done. Go for it.
    Doc
    Happy landings, Doc Hou Tx
    The second rule of modeling is there is no such thing as an insignificant savings in weight

  16. #41
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    I suppose it's only fair that I should also throw out my biggest CON: It makes no sense to buy such an expensive engine with the intent of only using it in ONE model. You'd just HAVE to imagine putting in into several different models over time. But that sort of presupposes that the model isn't going to last very long and then you could just take the engine out and mount it in the "new" model. This is the sort of thinking I had back when I first started the RC hobby and thought I could get away with only one engine and only one flight pack. I never imagined I have more than one RC model...at a time!

    And we all know how that works out. I think my current count is 3 x Saito 56, 1 Saito 72, 1 Saito 82, 1 RCV 91cd and a couple of now no longer functioning (I think) Magnum 52s and that original Magnum 2 stroke I used on my trainer, i.e. the "only engine" I thought I'd ever own. Most are currently already in a model.

    Strangely "the sound" is not such a big deal for me. Both Gas engines and 4-strokes sound pretty good. And once it's up there in the air on the far side of the flying field you can't hear much anyway, particularly if you're flying the thing a 1/4 throttle. I don't really care much what it sounds like on the ground.


  17. #42
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    Not that it matters in my case, but I'm curious how scale judges would treat a "authentic looking" radial engine vs. a "scale accurate" dummy. There's no doubt that a well done dummy will look more scale than a Seidel, which to my eye is by FAR the most "scale" looking in terms of WWI of any of the radial engines (except maybe a Saito R3 for something like a Bleriot). The "realism" of the Seidel comes from the fact that it's a real "round" engine.

  18. #43
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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    I have never pondered how a scale judge would treat a real but non scale radial, interesting question.
    I had the opportunity in Dec 09 th help hold down the test stand while Robert Cooper ran his 1/3 scale Bently rotary at the Southern Dawn Patrol in Andersonville Ga. A truly awesome display. They're not easy to install and operate in a scale model as a lot of access is required to the rear of the engine for priming and starting, and operation. It is installed and flying now in a giant Antic, a sight and sound to behold. I operate a 5 cyl in an exposed installation on the front of a 1/4 scale Mohawk Pinto, the sound at the far side of the pattern is still that of a radial, it's unmistakable. I've never heard the Seidel run but I can only imagine it makes a wonderful noise.
    Doc
    Happy landings, Doc Hou Tx
    The second rule of modeling is there is no such thing as an insignificant savings in weight

  19. #44
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    ORIGINAL: geezeraviation
    I've never heard the Seidel run but I can only imagine it makes a wonderful noise.
    There are some who complain that is sounds like it's "blowing bubbles" at idle...and to some degree that's true.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is1Uj3zMato

  20. #45
    geezeraviation's Avatar
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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    I think that depends on the cubits. The smaller OS and Saito engines do that, the one I have is an ASP at 4 cu in and I use a collector and the bubble sound is absent. The 150cc and up gas jobs have none of it.
    Doc
    Happy landings, Doc Hou Tx
    The second rule of modeling is there is no such thing as an insignificant savings in weight

  21. #46

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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    OK Don,
    You have convinced me. Sell the damn Leica NOW!
    Lets get the Seidel ordered!
    You don't need no collector ring cause oil should be oozing from all crevices of that round cowl or better yet the exposed engine......
    Come on, do it....we are waiting!

  22. #47
    abufletcher's Avatar
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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    ORIGINAL: Reg Hinnant
    You have convinced me. Sell the damn Leica NOW!
    Lets get the Seidel ordered!
    Yeah, I think I have convinced myself too. And the first rule in responsible consumerism is get the money before you spend it! So I'll sell the Leica before I buy the Seidel, hopefully this summer on eBay.

  23. #48

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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    OK Don,
    No hesitating now!
    The videos are still available from Dick Hansen at http://www.hansenscalevideos.com/list1.shtml
    The ones you would be interested in are #16 for Aerodrome 92 (sounds of the "real" ones....full size)
    #22 for the "Visit w/Seidel Motornebau" lots of runnung shots with exhaust sounds. Also flying videos of Proctors N-11, N-28, JN4, DVA
    #28 Aerodrome 94
    #67 Directors cut of Young Indiana Jones filming
    We will have to ask which # has the N28 flying with the Seidel. BTW once you see/hear this your mind will be made up FIRMLY. Bye Bye Leica [&:]

  24. #49

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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    Why not just buy TWO Seidels and make a 1/4 scale Caudron bomber?
    WWI Aviation T-shirts

  25. #50
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    RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

    Maybe not the bomber version but I'd definitely be interested in doing a GIII. And can you imagine what a stunning model it would make with a 9.5" diameter radial engine! On the other hand, figuring out the balance with a 2.6kg engine might be a challenge.


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