abufletcher

Sounds nice and simple. Simple is good.

abufletcher

No luck with the mini-priming. It's time to give up, pull the engine, and start over from square one.

abufletcher

Well, that was depressing and unpleasant, but the engine, tank, and entire glow system has been removed from the model. So ten steps backwards for one step forward???

abufletcher

Next day and I've got it all set up on the stand again.

After adjusting the stand's throttle servo (and the Tx) to give proper full and idle openings on the carb (which I can inspect on the stand but not on the model), I proceeded to re-program (reset the glow intensity) according to the instructions for the GLOW7 LP. There was strong glow (with the LiPo freshly charged) from half throttle down. So far so good.

But then I noticed something that doesn't seem right. If go up to full throttle again, the system shuts off (as it should do), but then as I bring the throttle down again, it never goes back on. It's like the system is completely switched off and the only way to get it going again is to move the stick all the way to idle then do the quick idle to full to idle movement initially used to arm the system. That's absolutely USELESS in flight. Any glow system MUST RELIABLY TURN ON AND OFF at a certain throttle setting.

It's starting to look like the Microsens GLOW7 LP is an expensive and unreliable device.

However, I am getting strong glow at idle. So I'm going to try to fire up the engine as is just to see if it will start.

geezeraviation

My Feedback: (3)

Yeah! that's how my Mc Daniels unit works in the radial powered 1/4 scale Pinto.

abufletcher

I remember looking at this ages ago. Those plug head are awful (and might not fit in my cowl) but I suppose they get the job done. How do you adjust the point at which the glow comes on?

http://www.sonictronics.com/xcart/pr...cat=308&page=1

Either there is something wrong with my GLOW7 LP or I haven't set it up right. I can't believe that anyone would have designed it to do what it's doing. At this point all it's good for is providing initial glow to start the engine (if the engine starts at all).

foodstick

Abu I think a guy in my club built some simple setup where the throttle servo arm would touch a spring loaded switch turning on the glow driver. As simple as that. The throttle linkage ran off one side of the servo arm, the micro switch had a soft flexible arm that would flex and turn on at low rpm settings...

I Am not sure if you've seen that type of switch but with a VERY light touch it throws the switch, and then the (toggle) will bend and flex past that point instead of bottoming out and stopping the servo arm.


Abu I haven't read all of the thread and might misunderstood the issue.. so my idea was just based on the last couple posts of yours... Hope I didn't post off the subject ...

geezeraviation

My Feedback: (3)

Don as I recall there is an adjustment on the controller that sets the on off point. Mine is for a five cyl engine but I can see any difference for a seven cyl unit. Like foodstick says a mechanical switch can be used and I have done so but that was a single cyl system and I'm not sure how well that would work for multiple cyls due to the amount of amperage required to light several cyls. Good luck friend it seems you're definitely on an uphill struggle. Your unit is either malfunctioning or there is a trick to setting it up that is somewhat obscure, to say the least. Hope you get it sussed out soon.
Doc

TFF

Yes it sounds like there is an on/off and an armed setup, and you are tripping the on/off not the armed.

abufletcher

TFF, I've re-read the instructions a million times (and even tried to imagine what sort of German-English translation problems could have crept in). With the throttle at idle, you switch on the Tx then Rx. At this point the system is off (i.e. it won't start). Then by moving the stick quickly to full than back to idle, the system is put into Start Mode (with power to the glow plugs). Once it reaches the re-programmed point it switches to "Run Mode" with automatically reduced glow power.

As far as I can tell there is NO separate way of turning the system on vs. arming it.

Anyway, I tried again today to start the engine. Nothing. It just WASN'T THIS DARN HARD BEFORE!!! (And it HAS run before with this EXACT set-up.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy1ETRC1gIo&feature=youtu.be

tsnaylor1964

I tried the glow systems also for the Evolution 77 and 99 and was not happy with them. Ended up making an onboard battery pack from four D cell NiMh (10,000 Milliamp) rechargeable wired to 2.4 volts switched with a Radio Shack 30 amp toggle activated with one servo on its own channel. I can turn the glow plugs on and off with my transmitter as needed. Has worked beautifully for two years with the 99 and 77 as well as an ASP 400 5 cylinder radial.
Tom

abufletcher

I just got an email back from Peter at Microsens and he explains that the brightly glowing plugs are only visible during the "start mode" and that once the engine is running the glow power is significantly reduced so the plugs would not be visibly glowing...but the power could be measured. So it's not "switching off" but rather just switching to "run mode" to save on battery power. The idea is that maximum glow is only needed to start the engine. That sounds right.

But it still doesn't explain why my engine isn't starting.

geezeraviation

My Feedback: (3)

Because there's something wrong with your igniter regardless of what Peter told you something isn't working right. Well it sure seems that way to me. My 2 cents.
Doc

abufletcher

But I've visually confirmed a half-dozen times that the plugs ARE glowing brightly in Start Mode. Even if there's something wrong with the glow system after that, it should still be able to start. How can I be getting glow on the plugs and (as far as I can tell) enough fuel in the cylinders (with priming) and still have a totally dead engine?

I'm still concerned about the amount of fuel that drips out of the ring collector. You can actually see it in the video above. But the priming seems like the same as I was doing the last time the engine ran.

abufletcher

Re-reading pages 30 and 31 of this thread...and it's deja vu all over again! Some of my posts are almost identical. My gut feeling is that the problem lies with my priming technique. That's the only thing that seems variable. Electronics can't change from day to day...or engine start to engine start on the same day.

abufletcher

Another glow check. Strong and bright in Start Mode (up to half throttle). Just as it should be. Batteries are re-charged for tomorrow's attempt. According to my description of a successful start on page 31, I primed using a pipette with about 30ml (3 x 10ml) while rotating the prop. Then cleared any hydrolock with a couple of counter-rotations. Then Tx on, Rx on, glow armed, throttle at one-quarter, and swing away!

otrcman

Hi Don,

Sorry to read about all the troubles you're having with your Seidel. Sorta like trying to start seven single cylinder motors all at the same time !

One word of caution regarding turning backwards to clear fuel from the cylinders: When turning backwards, it's possible to back some liquid up into the intake pipes. Then, when you turn in the running direction, the liquid is sucked right back into the cylinder and the hydraulic lock is back. It's safest to do a couple of final judicious turns in the running direction before attempting to start the engine.

Dick

RBACONS

My Feedback: (3)

I agree with Dick. You shouldn't be counter-rotating the prop nor should there be a need to. And you are way over-priming. 30 ml's is about an ounce. I just went through my priming regime but into a epoxy mixing cup instead of the engine. The total of my 3 primes is 1/4 ounce. No wonder you are seeing fuel dripping. With that much fuel, its also possible you're drowning the plugs.

Open throttle, give it a brief squirt, close throttle, turn it over forward 3 times. Repeat twice more.

Another concern would be the quality and gauge of the wire you used to extend the Microsens harness. You need at least 18 ga and lots of strands to get the juice through to the plugs.

I've also found the same as Tom, that the off-the-shelf on-board glows are more trouble and expense than they are worth. With a simple servo-driven driver, there is no question as to what is going on. The pics below show how I rig a servo to provide juice to the plugs (minus the wires). Simple piece of brass bent over the top of a servo, Red wire from the battery soldered to it on the far side, and the brass then epoxied down on the servo case. A sort of "P" shaped piece of brass (laying on its nose) is screwed to the servo arm. The red wire going to the plugs is soldered to this and tie-wrapped to the other end of the servo arm as a strain relief. Very easy to program the channel to open/close the servo with a switch and to mix it with throttle to come on at below 20% or so. Although I was initially skeptical, glitching is a non-issue as the switch opens and closes, even on 72 MHz. As I said earlier, I use a 7000 mah F Cell which provides plenty of amperage.

abufletcher

Today, I tried with the reduced priming (about 10ml total in "mini-primes"). Nothing. Then, I tried putting a couple of drops of fuel directly into the top cylinder. Nothing. Not a thing. Then, I tried with more priming. Nothing. Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. Just a whole lot of nothing. The engine doesn't sound like it wants to start and it doesn't feel like it wants to start.

I really don't know what to think or what to do next. The plugs glow. There's fuel in the engine. What gives? Time to start from scratch? Toss the microsens system (GLOW7 LP and BALANCER)? Toss the glow cables? Toss the battery? Toss all of it?

This is even worse than going back to square one.

abufletcher

RBACONS, could you describe (or show me a sketch) of the complete wire system you have made? I'm really terrible at this sort of stuff.

Also are there any other options out there for the glow caps/cable combos that I can order (instead of trying to make them myself)...besides the McDaniels ones (since I hate the look of those caps and don't think they'd fit in some cowls)?

It's beginning to look like it'll be 2016 before I get this started again.

RBACONS

My Feedback: (3)

ABUFLETCHER,

Below is a basic wiring diagram. I get my silicone wire and glow plug connectors from Radical RC (good stuff). One note on the plug caps, they tend to be a hair long for the Fox Miracle Plugs that I use so I trim 1/32 - 1/16" or so off the end of the boot with an xacto knife for an easier fit. The charge port and arm/disarm can be just about anything you want to use to be able to charge the battery and/or break the circuit for safety. What is not shown (and I don't know that it is really necessary) is that I add another wire between the Ring Lug and the Engine Lug with a male Deans connector in the circuit which is hidden just inside the rear edge of the cowl but accessible from outside the plane. This allows me to plug in a second F Cell as a booster battery just for starting the engine so I don't use up any of the on-board F Cell.

abufletcher

Thanks very much for the diagram. (I sure will be pulling my hair out if I do all of this and the engine still doesn't start. And since I'm getting strong glow on the plugs with my current system I don't really have much expectation that this will change with a new electrical system.)

--Don

abufletcher

This glow plug connector with boot (about halfway down the page) looks better than the McDaniel's type connector.

http://www.radicalrc.com/category/Gl...g-Fittings-223

geezeraviation

My Feedback: (3)

They're OK till they get a bit of glow fuel on them and then they don't stay on well. The Mc Daniel twist lock style is much more secure. They're a bit more compact being a sort of 90 degree boot but I ended up throwing a mess of them away because they kept coming off the plugs while the engine was running

abufletcher

What I'd like to try is hooking up the glow cables all directly (more or less) to the battery, cutting out EVERYTHING in between. If the engine doesn't start like that, then it's not the electrical system. Essentially, just start it like I'll be starting any other glow engine...with a removable glow starter.

I have some vague memory of having to do something to "balance" something or another if not using the microsens BALANCER.