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Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

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Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

Old 08-01-2010, 08:01 PM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

So many different rotary engines as well...some with two pushrods out front, some with one, some with them in the rear, and then there's the intakes or lack thereof...A scale size flying prop and the neat sound would have to be the goal....imagine taxing away with that big prop and the radial blubbering......!!

...and you could probably takeoff at half throttle..........
Old 08-01-2010, 08:42 PM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

Here is my opinion. Even though the Seidel or any other radial is not a perfect match for a WW1 model with looks or sound(99.9% have the problem); it would be an incredible model to mix both the radial and model. The most critical would still love it and be happy to see it. Do it.
Old 08-01-2010, 08:55 PM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

ORIGINAL: TFF
The most critical would still love it and be happy to see it.
I'm one of those "most critical" and I sure loved it and was happy to see it (in that wonderful AVRO 504). To be honest, it probably looks BETTER in the WWI cowled aircraft than sticking out in front of a Stearman!
Old 08-01-2010, 09:15 PM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

Is there an exhaust ring available? If it is a direct copy of the German engine there should be one out there...you might need an exhaust ring with a cowled engine...

Randy
Old 08-01-2010, 09:43 PM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

I believe Seidel used to offer a exhaust/collector ring but I'm not sure if one is still being produced. The engine definitely sounds "meaner" (in a "Harley" sort of way) with one (see the scale sounds thread) but seems to run fine without one. I think one would be necessary in a typical WWII style "closed cowl" but most of the WWI cowls were designed with the idea that the rotary would be throwing out oil every which way in large quantities. The exhaust should be able to flow out the bottom rear of the cowl.

I don't see any mention here of a collector ring. There's also no mention on the UMS site. And on the Everything Radial Engines thread two people have made their own. BTW, the exhaust ports can apparently be positioned as the modeler prefers.

http://www.seidel-triebwerke.de/englisch/englisch.html
Old 08-01-2010, 10:56 PM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

Seidel made a rear collector ring. I had one with my engine.
I would bet that the listed "Ring sound absorber" is a collector ring.
It is harder to troubleshoot a dead cyl when you have a ring installed. I ran mine with just the short stacks & thought it sounded fine.
I still agree that you need one Don![sm=biggrin.gif]
Old 08-02-2010, 03:40 AM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!


ORIGINAL: abufletcher

But really, the main reason is still to be able to use fly with a scale diameter prop. The Seidel 770 is designed for a 22'' prop while a G26 turns a 16'' prop.
Just an idea:

Did someone ever tryed a G20, G23 or G26 with reduction gear? That could be a great solution for our 1/4 scale models to turn a scale size prop.
Old 08-02-2010, 05:30 AM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

ORIGINAL: Teus
Did someone ever tryed a G20, G23 or G26 with reduction gear? That could be a great solution for our 1/4 scale models to turn a scale size prop.
This is such a good question, it deserves its own thread!
Old 08-02-2010, 10:35 AM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

why is this engine cheaper than sati and os engines that aren't even 7 cylinders and less displacement if i were you there isn't a better deal than the seidel with the outrageous glow 4 stroke prices these days maybe seidel should make some singles as well given that the new os is flat out gorgeous i cant believe the ways prices shot up in recent years
Old 08-02-2010, 11:45 AM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

ORIGINAL: p-80
why is this engine cheaper than sati and os engines that aren't even 7 cylinders and less displacement if i were you there isn't a better deal than the seidel with the outrageous glow 4 stroke prices these days maybe seidel should make some singles as well given that the new os is flat out gorgeous i cant believe the ways prices shot up in recent years
I dont' know the answer to that or why Seidel has be able to cut their price almost by half. Sure things are cheaper when made in India, but I can't believe it's that much cheaper. As far as why other fancy radials (even the ones with only 3 cylinders) are so pricey, I think it's because they are primarily thought of as "luxury" objects and people buy them just to say they have one. I've SEEN four or five of the Saito radials in person. I've NEVER seen one in a flying model!
Old 08-12-2010, 04:15 PM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

Abufletcher, It's always pleasant and a learning experience to read your building threads for that, thank you !  .

If it helps I bought a ST 7-70 Indian made Seidel from Mr. Seidel in Germany, it arrived today....

The purchasing process was a pleasure, communication with him was fluent and was timely receiving updates from him, was told up front about an expected delivery of 3 to 4 months and that was what happend,.

When he drop the engine at the post office he let me know and asked to be informed upon arrival to Chile, in took ten days from door to door, it arrived nicely packed with a nice old school warranty certificate hand signed with real ink

The engine looks beautiful !!!! World Class, I would buy it again .....

It's going to be build in to a Proctor Eindecker.

Hope it helps.

PS: Something else.... PM please.
Old 08-12-2010, 04:25 PM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

Leider, that's good to hear. I'm wondering what the difference is between ordering through Seidel in Germany or ordering directly from UMS. From emails from the manager at UMS I would expect that the engine could be shipped more or less immediately.

If I do order one of the 770 I think I'd order it directly through UMS.
Old 08-12-2010, 07:28 PM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

The other choice for about 3/4 the price of the Seidel would be a Laser 200V which is also a legendary engine. It would need to be covered by a dummy, but then it's also designed in such a way as to allow the fullest dummy possible.

So what do you think people, could the 200V power a 1/4 scale Sopwith Triplane?
Old 08-12-2010, 07:40 PM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

You've gotten your apples mixed up with your oranges, this thread is about the Seidel770 get one or try something else but if you're after round engine realism you can fake it or you can fly it.
Doc
Old 08-12-2010, 07:44 PM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

Wow factor isnt suppose to enter into the scale equation when judging is done by the book. Everyone starts at 100 and points are deducted for deviations from scale. But round motors generate wow factor and trust me it is influential.
Doc
Old 08-12-2010, 08:11 PM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

And.... this is how it looks like
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Old 08-12-2010, 08:14 PM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!


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Old 08-12-2010, 09:14 PM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

Wow factor, indeed! [sm=thumbs_up.gif]
Old 08-12-2010, 09:23 PM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

Mick Reeves uses the 200V on the 1/4 planes to swing a big prop. It probably has the power to hover it indefinitely and take off like a rocket.
Old 08-12-2010, 11:25 PM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

I had the 200 V installed on my 1/4 DR1 and it flew beautifully with power to spare but not ridiculous ( its now installed in my 1/4 SE5 awaiting completion) ...but hanging on it's prop??? maybe with the right prop, but I don't think so ..but we're talking scale flying here anyway. A friend also has a 200 V installed in his 1/4 Hanriot and is more than pleased...talk about 4 stroke sound !!! Nirvana
You won't be dissapointed with a Laser, I have 3 of them...beautifull machining and performance.
Old 08-12-2010, 11:46 PM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

Also Peter McDermott had the Laser 200V installed in his 1/4 Tripe I believe at the World Champs in Switz. in 2000....I saw it fly in person...very adequately powered.
Old 08-13-2010, 12:09 AM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

ORIGINAL: TFF
Mick Reeves uses the 200V on the 1/4 planes to swing a big prop.
But the 200V still won't turn a scale sized prop. From what I can see on YouTube most people are using them with a 16-18" prop. The Seidel 770 will turn a 22" prop.
Old 08-13-2010, 12:23 AM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

There appear to be only two ways to turn a scale prop:

1. Radial engine
2. Gas engine with reduction drive
Old 08-13-2010, 05:55 AM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

3. Brushless motor 120 RPM / V
Old 08-13-2010, 08:28 AM
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Default RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!

The prop may not be scale, but it is bigger than a little screaming one. It helps the illusion it does not make it perfect. Full size physics apply no matter what size something is made. If you were going on pure specifications, the prop drive would be the best, but prop drives can be a pain in the butt in the real world. Great if you like to tinker, but if you want a bunch of flights without tinkering, not the thing to have. Most people dont like to put up with them. The radial would be the way to go, but you will have to limit the power. Full power could flutter a wing if you let the speed build up too much, or cause the plane to torque over, which if too low to the ground you wont have the control to bring it back straight. I say get the radial; it is one of those once in a lifetime things that most people dont get to try. Except for swinging a big prop prop drives are not cool.

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