Spuetz

Hi Bob,

a Club mate of Mine flies the proctor Fokker Eindecker with the St 770. Works great! So for the DR 1 (is it? or D VIII?) it'll be great. I guess one has to make a choice: scale looking engine, sound and feel, or scale flight. For with a lighter engine you certainly get the speed of those WW1 fighters way down. With the Seidels it's always a bit of a trade off. However I find my Nieuport just slow enough... Well - could be slower for true scale appearance, I guess, but its not too bad...

and yes, you might have to position the batteries way aft in the fuse... In the Nieuport they are right behind the pilot seat. Two two cell 1500 lipos for the radio an one 5 cell 6000 ( five 1200-cells) for the glow system. That plus plywood re-inforced tail surfaces puts the cg just right...

so while you're still building: anything that makes the tail sturdier won't harm you in terms of weight...

Spuetz

Another thing:

i am currently in Sydney, Australia. It is 9:00 am on the 21st and the world is still going strong... Light wind, partly cloudy and no apocalypse on the horizon.,,

just to let you know...

Mein Duff

Great !!! nice to know we will have another sunrise tomorrow

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

Speutz. thanks for that information. Oh. maybe the Australia will be the last to know! LOL

By the way its a Glenn Torrence Fokker DVI.

abufletcher

OK, so it sounds like 0/0 is just fine. As for the weight, well, we are talking about 3kg+ for the engine+collector+mount so that's definitely a significant consideration. But as Speutz points out, guys use these on 1/4 scale EIII models. In fact, the Seidel is what's shown on the Proctor EIII plans. But the weight issue is part of what made me go with the Strutter as a "first mount" for my Seidel. Not all 1/4 models are the same size. A 1/4 scale 2-seater is a significantly larger model.

Invermast, I could try the blue loctite, but I've had too many of those extension wires comes loose in the past so I've preferred either to solder them in place...or even better to put a small hex bolt in place and then do the adjustment with a long hex-wretch/driver (though a tube in the side of the model).

As for Mayan destruction, we'll have to wait for until it's 12/21/12 on the continent where the Mayans lived! Sure hope things work out, since my plane is set to touch down in LA on Saturday, Dec. 22! [X(]

abufletcher

I'm hoping to have it ALL on the Strutter. With the engine only running to perhaps half throttle it'll be swinging a scale size prop and something like scale revolutions and with the big strutter I would imagine something like scale speed.

That was my thinking when I created my Strutter fuse frame with a full set of fully functional cross-bracing wires and scale tail bracket. The nice thing about the Seidel is that as modelers we're back to why these WWI airplanes looked the way they did to start with: There was this big hunk of spinning metal up front and it had to be balanced out somehow!

chasrb

Abu, lol never got back to this... I think my prob is I am running 4.8 not 3.6 +- as requested. I have the Glow 7 LP with the balancer, so now that I have seen the 5000 3.7 lipo, I may get that one as well. I can't find a nicad that would work unless I go custom. I could use the nicd weight up front.

It is amazing that I am not the only one who was absolutly agravated with a Siedel 710 (770). Thanks for all the info that you guys talked out about the starting procedure.

Funny thing is it used to start no problem with a 3800 mah 4.8. Would that voltage cause the Glow 7 to not work?

abufletcher

Well...it's YEARS later but I do finally have the Seidel/UMS in a model. Not yet a proper WWI scale model, but at least a model. I bought a 3m wingspan ARF of the Paulistinha P-56 and grafted the 770 onto the front of it. Figuring out the actual installation on the model vs. on a test stand devoured a lot of brain cells. The main challenges were routing the glow cables around the tank, creating a "flexible" needle valve extension that bends around the exhaust ring, making an extension for the carb throttle arm so that the linkage cleared the mount, and devising a ways to prime the engine with the carb inaccessibly buried in a cowl. But I eventually triumphed.

But now, after successfully starting it on the test stand, the glow system doesn't seem to be operating correctly on the model. The GLOW7 LP indicator light is not going to Start Mode when I move the throttle stick quickly. When I first switch on the Tx and Rx I get two red flashed (rather than the ONE as stated in the instructions), this the LED goes off. But moving the throttle doesn't arm it, which should be indicated by the LED light flashing quickly. I've sent a description of the problem to MICROSENS but haven't heard back from them yet.

TFF

TX endpoints the same as the bench? Does it have a program mode? Is the ground good? All plugs good? Im just thinking aloud.

Mein Duff

Glad to see you are moving forward with the engine...I figured I'd let you get all the bugs worked out before I try to set mine up !! He He..
Very tidy set up...hope you get it dialed in ..I also have the Microsens unit but haven't hooked anything up yet or even had the engine running yet...I will be installing it in my 1/4 Fleet Biplane this summer....I've had it with the Saito 220 four stroke that is a pain in the arse...and a gas guzzler to boot.
Eric

abufletcher

I'm wondering if the MICROSENS unit retains the settings when you remove the battery for charging. It would seem ridiculous if this were so, but last time I ran the engine I did have to redo the "automatic" programming at the field, which involved removing a jumper, unscrewing one of the plugs and visually inspecting the glow intensity, then putting the jumper back on.

abufletcher

You might just have hit the nail on the head!!! I was just re-reading your comment (now that I'm in the US) and I just realized something! For the test stand runs I had long ago set up a separate "model" on the TX, which I designated as UMS. But when I was trying to start the engine the other day, naturally I had the TX switched to the "model" for this ARF.

So in effect none of the prior "programming" was set for the "model" I was using. At least now I know.

TFF

I hope it will be that easy.

abufletcher

Here are the instructions for "programming" the GLOW7 LP and the start procedure verbatim from the manual.

Automatic Programming Mode

For visible controlling screw off one plug, put the plug housing on the engine ground and connect the plug pin. Mount all other plugs in the engine and connect them according to the given scheme. Do not hold the external plug with your fingers, there is danger of burning!

Take care of good contact (especially to ground the external plug), otherwise wrong values will be programmed!

Glow plug battery shall be charged, otherwise the battery type is not detected correctly.

Take off the PROG jumper, put the throttle level on idle position.

Switch on the transmitter and the receiver. The green led flashes shortly after c. 5 sec. Put the throttle level to full speed. The green led flashes once again shortly.

Now move the throttle level slowly in direction to idle position. The status led is flashing fast in red. Stop it as soon as the desired glow strength is reached. Don't' put it to idle position instantly there is the highest glow current dimensional for cold plugs. A hot or middle plug could blow! When it the glow plug current is interrupted there is no fast flashing red LED and no storing is possible.

Put the PROG jumper on again, the values are stored.

Led flashes green once. Finished! Switch the receiver off for 3 seconds and then on. The values remain stored and can be changed by a new APM.

*****

You can start the engine from idle position to half speed wit this automatic adjustment and the chosen glow current in the Start Mode. In the Run Mode the glow glow plug begins to glow from half speed and obtains at eighth throttle the maximum, but reduced glow current. With this current the plug glows very weak or not at all. More current is not necessary, because the engine is heating too. The bring red led indicates this function.


*****


Starting Procedure

Switch on the transmitter and the receiver and wait until the status led flashes red once shortly. This is the request for the Start Mode SM.

The throttle servo can go in any position (for example to such fuel) as long as the SM is not releases there is no glow function. The status led is off indicating there is now glowing possible.

Now the SM can be released by a fast movement of the throttle lever from the idle position to full speed and back. The status led is indicating this function by fast red flashing.

Starting the engine is permitted rom idle position up to half speed position because of safety reasons.

As soon as the engine is running and full speed position is reached the first time it will be switched to Run Mode with reduced glow current automatically. RM is indicated by solid red of the starts led.

SM is finished for safely reasons after 90sec. It can be reactivated any tie with the fast throttle level movement, even during flight.

abufletcher

I'll need to remove the prop and the cowl and then run through the programming steps...which basically sets the glow thresholds.

abufletcher

I finally figured out the problem. And, as is often the a case, it boiled down to my own stupidity! I don't know why but I had the Microsens GLOW7 LP connected to Ch 5 on the Rx. Of course the throttle is Ch 3. So, OF COURSE, the throttle wasn't communicating with the GLOW7 LP (even though it was getting power and therefore doing something with the indicator lights)!

So I put a harness on Ch 3 and plugged both the throttle servo and the GLOW7 LP into that and, voila! It worked just as in the instructions!!!

When all else fails, check the obvious.

Pull Up Now!

My Feedback: (3)

Did you edit the post to say Ch3 instead of Ch5? Or was that my imagination?

abufletcher

Your eyes do not deceive you! I spotted the typo just after posting. Yes, both the throttle servo and the GLOW7 LP are now connected to channel 3.

abufletcher

Well, dang. I thought for sure I had this problem licked when I took the completed model to the field today. But nothing, nada, zilch. I'm almost ready to pull the entire engine, tank, and glow system out and put it back on the test stand. I just can't think of what might be wrong.

I've been re-reading earlier pages of this thread (starting about p. 30) when I was also having problems.

TFF

Put the glow on a separate channel to be on and off. First flights I would fly with it on all the time at first anyway. Ditch the cowl also until you have it working. Pretty is going to wreck your plane. Peter McDurmott tested his snipe engine and dummy out in the breeze of a piper cub. Put the cowl on after it has flown and has no problems.

abufletcher

Actually, the main reason I"m using a cowl is to protect the delicate rocker rods in the event of a nose-over. But you're right about taking it off until I get it going. If fact, I took it off at the field, checked the plug function, and tried again. As far as putting it on another channel, I don't think that would work since the Microsens GLOW7 needs to sense the fast throttle movement to switch to start mode. No throttle movement, no start mode.

Honestly, I can't even remember how I had it set up on the test stand. But I don't remember using a harness for the throttle and GLOW7.

Here's an early (successful) test stand run with the glow system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Uczbrj7ZXY And here's the setup for that run (several years ago). I just looked inside the box and it appears I did hack together a harness of sorts linking the throttle servo and the Microsens going into the throttle channel. One thing that is different is that I had to ditch the red wires and made a set of slightly longer wires (to get around the fuel tank). But as I said, the plugs glow just fine.

TFF

The longer the wires the bigger the gauge wire it needs to be. It may light the plug dry, but fuel cools the plug unless it ignites. Make sure the ground wire is a correct thickness too. I would think that a switch would be very rapid in movement. Maybe a slide. I would also pull a couple of plugs and inject a little fuel into some cylinders. If it pops, its not the glow but a fuel problem.

abufletcher

The new wires are perhaps 20% longer than the old wires. That shouldn't make much of a difference.

What I should say is that the electronics of the Microsens detect that the throttle has been moved quickly from idle to full to idle again, thus "arming" the system. This is a safety feature and is indicated by a flashing red LED (which was operating fine yesterday).


I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Why would fuel "pop" if "injected" into a cylinder (which I can only imagine doing by removing the plug)?

TFF

You have to put the plug back in and hook it up and try to start it. Bypassing the carb.

abufletcher

It's many months later but at least still in the same year as my last post in this thread. I've been messing around with the SE5a (re-engined with a Saito 62b), a beat-up ARF (Paulistinha P-56), and making ever so slow progress on the CI. But now it's time to get back to the Seidel.

The glow system seemed to be working (arming light flashing when and how they should and plugs elements glowing) but no luck on getting it started. I prime it, counter-rotate the prop (with the electronics off, of course), switch on the Tx, then the Rx batteries, move the throttle level quickly to full then idle to arm the system (indicated by a flashing red light) and then flip the prop. But so far nothing.

Are the plugs glowing hot enough? Hard to say in light of TFF's comment about fuel cooling the plugs. Still, it worked like this before. I haven't yet tried TFF's last suggestion of putting a couple of drops of fuel in a cylinder (top one?).