Spuetz

Hi again, it's been a long time! Absolutely gorgeous that SE5! (except for the prop ;-) ) As for the Seidel: It does need a lot of fuel to start. I don't turn it backwards, but forward. And I squirt fuel into the carb while turning the prop, throttle full open. If I cannot reach the carb (in case of my Aero) I squeeze the breather line of the fuel system shut and keep the pump running. That way fuel is flooded into the carb while turning the prop. As for the plugs - should be all right. Might be not enough, hard to tell. Mostly Seidels don't start when they don't have enough fuel in the cylinders...
Good luck. Cheers, Martin

abufletcher

Here are some other glams of the SE5a with a proper dummy prop.

Thanks for the advice, Martin. Glad to know you're still looking on! For priming I followed your advice and added a tube that allows me to squirt fuel directly into the open throttle. (See previous page.) I insert a syringe into the tube and rotate the prop while pushing down on the plunger. But I have been rotating it the opposite direction, but for some reason that's what seemed to work in the past. The syringe injects about 20ml and I've also tried a double dose, so 40ml. The problem with pinching off the breather line is that that won't be accessible with the cowl in place.

abufletcher

I was just re-reading on about p.31 of this thread where I did get the engine running. I wasn't turning the engine backwards WHILE priming, but rather gave it a few backward turns AFTER priming to make sure that any hydrolock was cleared. I feel certain that there is a specific start procedure that if followed carefully will result is easy, reliable starts.

chasrb

Really well done SE5a!!

Spuetz

that sounds about right! that's what I do. suck the fuel in forward, then make sure there is no hydro-lock. Works beautifully every time!

Mein Duff

Don...sorry to hear you are still having issues...I still haven't had time to start mine yet...even stripped out a glo-plug trying to get familiar with the engine.....not even started and having to do repairs !!
Trying a few drops of fuel in a few cylinders would certainly not hurt...as long as you don't hydro lock it beforehand....turn a few revolutions after inserting fuel as you know.
Love your SE5a...I finally finished my 1/4 scale and will post pics as soon as I can get some decent shots...good luck with the engine watching and lurking....
Eric

Mein Duff

Did Evolution provide a manual with the engine with any starting tips ??...I have the original Seidel manual...will check

abufletcher

No time today after work to give it a try, but I am hopeful that a thorough priming will do the trick. I have both the English manual and the original Seidel manual in German and the German one provides a few more details.

Spuetz

Hi Don,
just a thought: Do you use the GLOW 7LP? I am asking because I have had problems with that - sorry, I know I recommended it. And normally they are quite good and convenient. However - they do fail! So if all else fails it might be the device is faulty. Also, what battery are you using with it? I am using a one-cell Lipo, 6000 Ah. Make sure it is fully charged. Have you programmed the glow intensity? Jumper off, one plug out and in contact with engine, throttle down, transmitter on, receiver on, now throttle to full power. Now reduce until you have the desired glow intensity. Jumper back on. Now it is programmed to give that intensity on start-up. Mine just lost that programming all the time. Klementschitz (of microsens) replaced it for me. Also, I had a faulty cable once - took me ages to figure that one out! Good luck with it!

abufletcher

Yep, following all of your advice! I've got the GLOW 7LP (and also the BALANCER) and a one-cell 3.7V 6000mAh (hardcase) LiPo for the glow system. I ended up making a new set of cables since I needed them to be just a bit longer to get around the tank. And yes, I've done the programming. If the attempt tomorrow doesn't work, I'll try reprogramming.

(BTW, I had a backup hardcase LiPo, 5000mAh, which I just noticed has puffed up so that needs to be disposed of!)

abufletcher

Well, I primed the **** out of it until I was even getting some amount of hydrolock (about 60ml squirted directly into the open carb as I rotated the prop forward). Then, I cleared any hydrolock with a few backwards rotations. Next, I switched on the Tx and Rx, moved the GLOW LP to Start Mode and tried, and tried, and tried, and tried. And tried.

The engine sounded thoroughly wet, but nothing even vaguely like a cough or hiccup. Just nothing. Guess it's time to redo the programming, even though I'm getting glow on the plugs. (Bear in mind I haven't try starting this engine in over two years.)

abufletcher

Now, in attempting to re-program, there is no ****in' glow whatsoever. LiPo dead? (BTW, I absolutely HATE LiPos and charging them seems no better than black magic.)

Stupid question: Is it supposed to be the threaded barrel part of the plug in contact with the engine or the hexagonal part. I tried both and there was no glow. But which is is? I'm thinking it should be the threaded part.

I feel like it's getting fuel and it's getting glow, just not both at the same time.


Battery question: Now, a few minutes later, I'm getting VERY WEAK glow but only at idle, no glow whatsoever above idle. So here's the question: If the 6000mAh isn't fully charged will that result in a weak glow? In other words, is it all-or-nothing until a certain mAh level? I assume the battery puts out 3.7v until it runs out of juice. Note, the display on my Hyperion charger is all but indecipherable to me. And the "instructions" are even less helpful.

abufletcher

So, for you Hyperion charger users, when the charger display reads END and 0mA (and 4.17V) does that mean the battery is fully charged? If so that seems like a stupid way to set up a display (rather than displaying 6000mAh on a 6000mAh battery when it's "full").

(I think someone may have explained that once before along the lines that the charger is STUPID in that it doesn't know how much charge is in the battery, but only know that it can't "push" any more in.)

Spuetz

Hi Don,

man, the universe is not treating you nicely these days!

You write 4.17 V on full? That's strange! Should be 4.2V! Maybe the battery is faulty? Also: did you use cables with a very high diameter when you made them longer? I guess you did and know that - I'm just trying to trouble shoot.. My guess: For some reason not enough "juice" is coming to the plugs. Maybe a short circuit somewhere? As for the plug contact to the engine when taken out: Threaded part or hexagonal part both are fine. They are one piece. Just make sure that you have a good, strong contact. Just laying them on top of the cylinder is not enough. Contact resistance to high! So press them down, probably with the hexagonal part for good contact. I use a clamp to hold them down. Clamp them to the rocker holder or so. the protruded part of the engine. Make sure the part where you make contact to the engine is clean! Oil or grease or dirt will act as an insulator.
As for lipos: I have nothing but! Probably 50 of them -- no problem at all! I love them! However it might be an idea to get a better charger. Hope that helps. Best, Martin

Spuetz

also, check all plug cables at the plugs. Are they still connected well? Did you solder them to the plug caps? Solder might have melted and you have a weak connection? That happened to me! it was connected by just one or two tiny wires of the cable. That poses an immense resistance and not enough current flows to the plugs...

abufletcher

It'll get there. I know it's just a process of elimination and then I'll know how to work with this engine setup. Back when I had it on the stand it started reliably. As for the voltage I just don't understand that stuff AT ALL. Why should a 3.7v battery measure 4.17v (much less 4.2v) fully charged. I know that's somehow normal since my regular 4.8v Rx batteries normally charge up to over 5v. Still it's very confusing. And I might have left out a decimal place. Maybe it was 4.179. Anyway, I've charged the LiPo to the best of my knowledge and abilities and will try again. I might have used a slightly higher gauge wire when I made the new set, but it was the closest I could find. And I'll make sure the connection is clean.

(I have had two LiPos. One self-destructed. That's not a good track record.)

abufletcher

Nothing.



After charging the LiPo I re-did the "programming" again and this time got strong glow (visible on two different plugs). I was optimistic.



Foolish me.



Primed and primed and primed. Everything seemed good.



But nothing.



I kept at it for over an hour.



Nothing.

abufletcher

The priming involved injecting about 60ml directly into the carb while rotating the prop forward. This was enough to cause mild hydrolock (which I cleared by counter-rotating the prop) and the engine was fairly well dripping with fuel. There was a satisfying "slushy/sucky" sound as if all the cylinders had plenty of fuel. Was it flooded? Who knows. By all accounts it's very hard to over-prime the Seidels. After several failed attempts I even tried a few drops of fuel directly into the top cylinder though the plug hole (then, of course, replacing the plug). No pops.

The Seidel/UMS doesn't have any "compression" per se. It's been my experience that it doesn't take much of a flip (or many flips) to get the engine running.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Uczbrj7ZXY

abufletcher

For today's attempt I put on the larger 24x10 prop (more wood, easier starts, right?) and even did a "fuel flammability test" in a small dish to make sure the fuel (which I've had for three years) wasn't somehow "flat." But the fuel burns, as alcohol does. Primed the engine with a bit less fuel (about 40ml) and did absolutely everything exactly as in the video above.

Nothing. I'm really running out of possibilities.

(I hate the idea of yanking the engine out of the model and putting it back on the test stand, but that may be the other option left.)

abufletcher

Martin, the plug cables that came with the UMS version have the cable connected to the plug connector with an electrical eyelet that is held onto the connector with a small bolt. When I remade the cables I used the same small eyelets. The wire is obviously soldered to the eyelet, but the eyelet is not soldered to the connector. Still, this setup worked fine in the video above.

*****

SECOND SESSION TODAY: NO JOY. Primed a ridiculous amount (about 80ml). I even tried using an electric starter...heck I even tried flipping it with my right hand instead of left (as I was doing in the video)!!!

>>>It is normal for fuel to be dripping (liberally) out of the collector ring?>>How much use (minutes of glow?) can I expect to get from a single charge of the 6000mAh LiPo? The glow seemed a little weaker today.>>How "wet" should the engine sound when it's properly primed?

abufletcher

Details from Hyperion charger display:

CHG/END
57:07
04278
LP
0mA
4.201V

I assume that means that it took 57 minutes to complete the charge and that 4,278 (?) were "put in" and that there is now room for ZERO more mA and the voltage now stands at 4.2 (on a 3.7V battery?).

abufletcher

THIRD SESSION TODAY: Nope. I'm stumped and out of options. Time to pull it out of the model and put it back on the test stand. Cr**!

RBACONS

My Feedback: (3)

Couple of thoughts for you. I have a Seidel and my buddy has had one for a dozen years or so. No issues whatsoever in all those years. The Seidel's have proven to be very easy to start with a couple of hand flips.

1. Priming - You need multiple (3) small primes. Open throttle, give it a squirt (not a deluge) into the carb, close throttle, turn the prop over forward 3 times. Repeat 2 more times. You do this 3 times so that a reasonable sized prime charge gets into each cylinder (rather than trying to distribute one big charge into 7 different cylinders. Engine should sound wet but not dripping with fuel.

2. We use a home made glow driver so then there never is a question about what the electronics in the glow driver is doing and it never needs re-programming. Standard servo with a brass strap epoxied across the top of the servo case and a brass strip secured to the servo arm. When servo is open, the brass strips are not in contact, when a switch is thrown (or the throttle is lowered) the strips are in contact with each other. You need high-quality, large-gauge wire. We use 16 or 18 ga silicone wire (flexible, high-strand count). from Radical RC (Silicone Wire S-400 18 Gauge) Add a 7000 mah F Cell (Sanyo KR-7000F), a charge port, and an on/off switch in the circuit. Details can be provided if you are up for trying it. We also use the same set up on our OS 1.60 twins (albeit with a 3600 mah C cell instead). Program the servo channel to throw on low throttle and based on switch position.

3. We also use Fox Miracle plugs and make up our own glow plug wire harnesses using the Glow Plug Connector W/Boot from Radical RC.


Its a very happy engine done up this way.

abufletcher

Thanks for providing some hope. I'll try the mini-primes tomorrow.

If that doesn't work, then I'll have to consider doing something major (like replacing the entire glow system and battery). And probably taking the engine out of the model until I can get reliable starts on the stand. As I mentioned before my engine wouldn't start with a 1.2V battery. But you say it works for you. I'd have to get a charger for the Sanyo KR-7000F and "creative circuitry" (as with your brass strap solution) certainly isn't my strong-point.

BTW, I'd like to see a photo of how you have all the glow wires connected up to those brass plates.

RBACONS

My Feedback: (3)

The glow wires are all bundled and tied to the front of the firewall with a washer and bolt. Only the single red and black wires are attached to the brass strips and are run through holes drilled into the firewall. Black wire is terminated under one of the engine mounting bolts and the red wire goes under the washer with the glow plug wire bundle. I'll see if I can find some pics otherwise I would have to pull the cowl and false floor in the cabin (which ain't easy).