snake152

Opinions Wanted: Has anyone built a kit offered by Arizona Models? What is your opinion of the kit quality, instructions, fittings, wood? How do these kits compare to those offered by Proctor? Any input would be appreciated. Thanks, Snake

mitoor/c

My Feedback: (7)

Snake..I just recently sent back a Arizona models kit. The quality was just ok, but the instructions do not exsist. They expect you to be able to build it on your own. I have built 2 proctor kits and they are much better in quality and have excellant instructions. The new kits from GTM models also are of excellant quality and great instructions. I would not recommend an Arizona models kit from my own experience, unless you do not need any instructions. Mitoo R/C

Tmoth4

My Feedback: (1)

I bought one of their WW1 machine gun kits. What little instructions there were, were really vague, and the laser cutting was terrible. I ended up using only a few of their parts and building most of it from scratch, and it still doesn't look right. The plastic Williams Bros. gun is a LOT more accurate.
If this is an indication of their airplane kits, good luck.

Thrushdust

We ordered a 1/3 scale Bucker Jungmann wood kit and F/glass Cowl and pants for a customer almost 2 years ago , we finally got the wood "pieces" after repeated phone calls, still haven't recieved the cowl/pants although they wanted (and got) "cash in advance"

Jimmy Bananas

My Feedback: (13)

Are this the same people who have an Fokker DR-1 ARF on MAN cover shot...........June issue.......any comments?

Badge

My Feedback: (21)

Yes Arizona is also the dealer of the DR-1 in MAN. That plane looks quite nice and at a reasonable cost compared to other planes they offer and compared to whats out market. It will take some work to get it to fly with a glow engine but looks like it would be worth it.

rbj3400

My Feedback: (1)

Look at the new price for the DR1...$279.00
They sold me the same plane a few months back for $649.00
Called when got this months MAN they gave me a song and dance about better deal with larger run of production.
They then said they are going to give us dummies who bought from them a coupon for future purchase discount.
I will keep you posted if they follow through.
As for instructions not much there. Probably would take less time to build a real set of guns than there kit guns.

Jimmy Bananas

My Feedback: (13)

rbj3400:

After reading what you said about price of thier Fokker DR-1. I think I'll stick with the GP Fokker DR-1..Thier have been some very good comments about this plane (GP)......for instance Dick Pettit...he is very high on it.....too many negative comments on Arizona Models.....Good luck on getting your 'Coupons"

spikkkkkk

i purchased a 1/12 scale neiuport 24/27 bis museum quality, first of all i didn't get spoked wheels like the website said instead i got willams bros. the balsa was a low grade and about half the sheet stock was missing. the stock they supplied for the wing spars was to small for the ply ribs. about 1/3 of all laser cut parts including bottom wing ribs were all burned through and useless. (couldn't save). the wing struts in the kit and a number of other parts were much to large, i figured about 1/8 scale. there was no hardware, the site said there was complete hardware package, no turnbuckles instead i recieved jewlery clasps that dont tension or resemble turnbuckles. more than 25 percent of the laser cut parts were missing for the rudder and elevator part" A "was cut but there was no part B on the ply sheet. there were no parts for the throttle quadron and no parts for the working cable system, wire, pulleys etc.. there was no ply supplied for L.E.. the instructions were the worst ive seen in my life. ( and ive done many, many builds) and the plans were off by a country mile. needless to say i contacted jamie j. at arizona models and he and he said the 1/12 kits dont supply a lot of detail items and he would fix the rest of the problems. if the 1/12 kit doesn't come with parts promised on website, hardware, spoke wheels, etc, there should have been a disclaimer or something on his site to warn you. false advertising all the way. after months of calling jamie and being promised this and that i got absolutly nothing fixed. i'm battleing cancer right now and all i wanted was a kit that would really wow me, after all it may be my last and i love this hobby very much. jamie j. is a pathalogical liar and will say anything, and has not told me a single truth since i purchased the kit. i finnaly realized i was duped and saved a few things that were salvagable, cowl, instrument kit, and guns and through the rest in the garbage, thats all it was anyway. SO PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM THIS SITE !, it will only prove to be a major disapointment. P.S., that was my last 300.00 dollars i spent on total garbage but i hope to buy and fly a procter kit before the lights go out, i should have purchased from them in the first place, they have quality stuff and are stand up people not like JAMIE J. AT ARIZONA GARBAGE.

abufletcher

I really would like to believe that Arizona Models offers something of value to WWI modelers. I love visiting the site and the catalog is gorgeous. So I think there's potential there. If nothing else they are a convenient clearing house for WWI model plans. The plans are designed by a range of well-known and respected scale modelers, for example, the Pfalz DIII plans by Tom Polapink. I ordered the 1/6th scale plans and got them right away.

Maybe they just need to be a little bit more upfront with what we're actually getting. For example, they could show a photo of the kit parts along with a photo of the finished model. This is particularly important for their dummy engine kits which are apparently little more than a bag of stock wooden parts and a drawing of the original engine.

In some sense they aren't really a kit producer. They just ofter laser cutting for a range of plans -- and then throw in some additional wood and some hardware. Construction manuals are provided so they're really targeted more at serious builder's who can build just from plans. But then modelers that can do this may also have fairly high standards in terms of what they expect from a laser cut short kit.

I would hate to see them go out of business but do hope they can turn things around a bit.

Scar

My Feedback: (3)

Wow. There's another one off my list. Hope you get your Proctor plane soon.
Best wishes,
Dave Olson

abufletcher

We do have to be realistic though. There's just no way that a 1/12 scale WWI model kit is going to be "museum quality" and comparing a 36" or so wingspan kit to a Proctor kit is apples and oranges. Personally, while I'm awed by the beauty of the Proctor Museum Scale kits (like the Albatros DIII and Fokker DVII) I don't at the moment have any driving desire to build one. They are all a bit too "civilized" for my tastes, too much already worked out for you. I'm a kit basher and the Proctor kits are just too lovely to bash.

LesUyeda

Abu: I hear what you are saying about 1/12 scale being too small to be "museum quality" but never say never. Check these out. Look like museum quality to me. The P-51 was featured somewhere:-)))))))

http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/

I have found that with electric, much finer detail is possible; not having to worry about the pounding of an internal combustion engine.

Les

abufletcher

Les, I didn't mean outstanding scale models can't be built at that scale. I've see several of them including FF scale models that blow my mind. I've just never seen a "museum scale" KIT offered at that size. Frankly, I doubt I ever will.

spikkkkkk

arizonamodels.com, go to this site and tell me they dont offer a 1/12 museum quality kit, they offer many of them. perhaps thats what intriged me was the fact that all that detail was in a small scale, also scalercmodels.com sells the same kits and after speaking with him he seems very disellusioned with ARIZONA MODELS.

jtisch

snake152,
Do a search for Arizona Models,there are several threads on this subject. There are a few people out there who are satisfied customers but the vast majority are rather displeased,to put it mildly.I am in the latter group.

abufletcher

I agree it's somewhat deceptive. For example, I'm familiar with the David Hurrell Albatros CIII model. I have a contruction article on it. It was originally designed for 1/6 scale and has a very thin scale airfoil. It's hard to imagine this at 1/12 scale. This is a very nice model at 1/6 scale (I have the plans) but it might not be such a nice model at 1/12 scale. And remember we're not talking about a "museum scale" kit designed at 1/12 scale but rather a 1/6 scale model for which the plan size has been reduced. BTW, I wouldn't consider any of the models from AZM to be "museum scale." Some are very good sport scale designs, even competitively good scale designs -- for example, the Albatros CIII. But museum scale is a whole different ballgame.

Also I notice under items included, it lists "Vintage Wheels." Well, this specifically means WB Vintage Wheels not spoked wheels.

Anyway, I don't want to seem to be defending AZM, which clearly needs to improve several aspects of the business end of things. But it is important to be realistic in terms of what we can expect. Functional turnbuckles on a 1/12 scale model? Not likely. I can hardly find useable turnbuckles for a 1/6 scale model and they are typically quite expensive. I would have had to spend several hundred dollars on turnbuckles for my current project. Besides for 1/12 scale those jewelry clasps actually work quite well (or fishing swivels). At that scale you don't need (and really can't use) functional rigging. It would be a nightmare.

But I'm glad you've gone ahead and got the Proctor kit as those really are a joy to build from all reports. I hope you enjoy the build and my very best wishes for improved health.

spikkkkkk

i disagree, unless were looking at 2 different sites it says wire spoked wheels, and as far turnbuckles i have 20 brass 1/12 scale working turnbuckles i got for 2.00 dollars a piece. i dont know where you shop but there is an enormous amount of detailed parts for 1/6 scale. hobby lobby has your hard pressed to find brass graupner working turnbuckles 10 for 19.95

abufletcher

First of all, thanks! I'm not quite sure how I missed these Graupner turnbuckles as I've been to the Hobby Lobby many times and also done extensive searches for turnbuckles at this size. Mabye I did see them and just assumed it wasn't 10 pieces for $20 bucks. Still the smaller ones are 5/8" which are about right for a 1/6 scale WWI model, but where did you find 3/8" working turnbuckles -- which is what we'd be talking about for 1/12 scale? I do have some somewhat smaller turnbuckles that I got from a model ship supply shop. But then the only have about 1/16" of adjustable space so they strike me as more for show.

And you're right that the MQ Nieuport 24 lists spoked wheels. I also see that the bold numbers suggest this Nieuport plan was originally designed at 1/4 scale. Unless it has been completely redrawn I don't see how one can take a 1/4 model and reduce the plans to 1/12 and still expect that smaller size to be a well-designed model. Still, as Les said, anything's possible.

But, overall, I think that from your description you have every right to be upset with what you got (and paid good money for). I've heard that their Mercedes engine kit is about $5 bucks worth of stock wood parts and a drawing copied from the MAN scale drawings book.

I guess I'm just hoping that Arizona Models can turn things around and be the company I think they could be.

*****

BTW, I'd be leary of anyone selling a kit where all they have is photos of the orginal aircraft and not photos of the model itself (preferably in bare-bones for a Museum Quality model).

spikkkkkk

arizona models use to be a great company before the owner died, then jamie took over and they have gone down hill ever since from what i understand. as far as the turnbuckles i bought them in england from a model boat company dont remeber the name , i'll have to look for the reciet and let you know. they have a full 1/8 inch each way. they lok like a small graupner except the screws extend from the middle section 1/8 inch which allows the eyelet sections to screw almost flush with each other in the middle. really pretty good , machined brass turnbuckle. there just a hair over 3/8", i believe there mm.

CrateCruncher

My Feedback: (1)

Interesting discussion. I once worked with Jaimie on some metal spoke wheels for the 1/8 Hasegawa museum scale kits. Based solely on that experience I would say he is way too ambitious for his business/engineering skills and habitually over commits and under delivers to his customers. After 6 months I gave up and made the parts myself.

I think AZM could be viable. That is, a seller of 1/6 and 1/4 scale R/C plans as well as "tough-to-make" parts for obscure pre-war and WWI aircraft. If they would just concentrate on that and establish a great reputation for quality and value, they would be far better off than their current "complete museum kit in any scale you want" facade.

doncoe

In reply to the question from snake152 and aware that Jaime Johnston of the Arizona Model Aircrafters is looking in at this thread I would like to give my two pennyworth.

Snake152, unless you are a very experienced modeller I would suggest that you avoid self-build kits from the above supplier. They leave too much to the skills of the purchaser and, from personal experience, are not, in the main, complete kits. Proctor, on the other hand, produce kits which are complete except, in my case, the Alb DV, the wheels, and can be built to museum standard. The claim "Museum Quality Model" is a stupid claim to make by any manufacturer because the seller has no idea as to the skills of the purchaser.

I have the AZM 1/4 scale AVRO type D kit, as yet to be started and still in it's box. I will be able to build it to museum standard but not from the contents of the box. There are too many anomolies on the drawings which are also not accurate. The design is questionable insofar as the integrity of the structure is concerned, especially the wing section which specfies three-part ribs with cap strips from 1/8 x 1/4 spruce all to be built on a jig the parts of which are not included!!! The contents were short of many items and other materials were either incorrect according to the drawings or not of merchantable quality.

HOWEVER.................... and here one must fair and put both sides to the story, following some 62 emails to and 60 emails plus a few phone calls to and from AZM, Mr. Johnston has responded to my complaints, suggestions, comments and veiled threats by sending me numerous packages which have gone a long way to enabling me to make a start on the model. There were many reasons for the shortages, all of which I allowed to be plausable and, I hope, an honest attempt on his part, to keep me, a customer , happy. Also I did reveal early on that the build was to be the subject a review for the UK model press.

I would like to wind up by saying that I'm of mature years, 76, I meditate twice a day, never hold a grudge, maintain a sense of humour and, finally, am able to accept that my $1500 has supplied me with mental stimulation over the last five months. That is, from the time AZM debited my card in October last year to the present time.

I will build this b****y model and post pictures of it in all it's glory on this forum. So there!

Kind regards.
Don Coe

P.S.I have to be grateful, I suppose, that I'm not in the position of my good pal, Tim, who paid for his 1/3 scale DH2 six months ago and has yet to hear a dicky bird!

abufletcher

It should be noted that AZM doesn't design their own models. The different WWI plans being sold (and kitted) were designed by a range of different designers -- some very well-known and respected and some not so well-known. For example, the "AZM" Pfalz DIII is Tom Polapink's (contest winning) design. I believe the Hansa-Brandenburg was designed and prototyped by John Cole. In some cases, AZM may be the only ready source for these plans. In other cases, the plans are easily available elsewhere.

spikkkkkk

from spikkkkkk, i think i,m going to do what your doing and screw it and build the damn neuport 27 1/12 scale with all the fixings, working cable systems and cock pit controls, brushless motor etc.. even though jaime at AZM cant make it happen i can and i also think i'm a much better engineer than he is. when i do get it done it will probably be the only 1/12 of its kind, its kinda gonna be like a scratch built after all most of my kit wasn't worth a damn so thanks for the inspiration.

doncoe

Point taken Mr Fletcher!

Perhaps it would be of help to AZM if they were to credit the designers. It would certainly add credence to their impressive range of plans and if there were any questions the punter would be able to contact the designer directly. Any designer worth his salt should be happy to resolve any issues which arise. Am I right or am I right?

I have had the opportunity to discuss various issues I have with the AVRO drawings with one of AZM's designers and found his opinions very helpful. It worked for me (Thank you, John D.)

Don Coe