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85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

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Old 06-15-2006, 01:16 PM
  #26  
Tug Guy
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

Ken
By any chance has your dad thought about selling kits again for this tug? I am sure if he did they would sell well. With current laser cutting technology It seems like the kit would be easy enough to develop. Perhaps at 85 he doesn't wish to start something like that? Please keep us informed and include pictures as you build. With current interest of several builders I am sure they would appreciate them. I know I would, just to see another modeller build this tug is enjoyment enough.
As for what Keith is using for hardware in his twin screw version I would also be interesed to hear what he is using. How 'bout it Keith?

Tug

*edit* I couldn't help but notice that great looking Bunker boat on the shelf. Did your dad or you build it? Any pictures of it?
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Old 06-15-2006, 03:15 PM
  #27  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

Ken & Tug
I agree this kit could be a very successful rivival as it is easy to build, clear drawings and a classic design. I think it's a winner. My plans came from the Ebay seller you described Ken and they are the MB traces of your Dad's original.
As for the twin screws on mine, I used Pittman 3700 motors since they run cool and have a 3700 RPM top end allowing for direct coupling with no necessary gear reduction. I have to admit, when I tested it in the bathtub for leaks, I also ran the motors one at a time and nearly flushed the water out of the tub. This boat is definitely overpowered...
I think if I do a second one, I will revert to the original design and replicate the Angle's Gate version.
If you look closely at the Kort nozzle pictures, you will see how I used a laser level to align the drive lines. This really made it both easy and accurate.
Cheers
Keith
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Old 06-15-2006, 03:41 PM
  #28  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

Keith are those nozzles plastic? Who makes those Graupner?
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Old 06-15-2006, 07:23 PM
  #29  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

Tug - I got them through Harbor Models and they are Robbe 60mm plastic. The only complaint I have about them is the rudder pin at the bottom is very fragile and broke the first time I worked on them. It wasn't difficult to drill it out and Ireplaced it with a sturdier brass pin that should be fine now. Otherwise, they fit very nicely.
You can find them here;
http://www.harbormodels.com/Harborma...propulsion.htm
Keith
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Old 06-15-2006, 07:48 PM
  #30  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

Keith thanks for the link I will look into them for a project I have in mind. I made a set of aluminum nozzles for a Shelly foss Tug kit I have. As I understand it you need special props with a flat edge for highest efficiency to use with the kort nozzle. I have a Maggie M fishing vessel kit that I had to order a special prop from the prop shop to use with its kort nozzle. The flat edged prop has a minimal clearance around the diameter for better speeds. The fixed kort nozzle set Harbor sells looks like that is what they use. But it is hard to tell from the photo.

Tug
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Old 06-15-2006, 07:49 PM
  #31  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

Might try looking into a Hartman "harbor tug":
http://www.stlouisadmirals.com/Admir...ture.asp?id=91

You'll have to phone Dwight Hartman for info, no web:
217-795-2275

Pat Matthews
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Old 06-15-2006, 09:19 PM
  #32  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

Tug - I thought the same thing when I ordered the nozzle sets but they came with Robbe 60 mm regular props. In fact, I had to order a second left handed prop as the original pair were both right handed. They are not flat edged however, and that disapointed me. I can see how that would make quite a difference so maybe I'll scout out a set in the future. Right now, I think my bigger problem will be too much power as these Pittmans are brutal...
I'm also synchronizing a smoke unit through two stacks although I guess I'll have to explain why the "diesels" smoke white and not black
Keith.
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Old 06-16-2006, 06:04 AM
  #33  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

Keith do you have enough room to raise the motors and install a reducing pulley system?
Tamiya makes a set of pulleys fairly inexpensively.
http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/tam/tam70140.htm

Tug
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Old 06-16-2006, 09:14 AM
  #34  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

Tug- I thought about doing that but since I'm using electronic speed controllers that maintain full torque at any speed, I can run them at 1800 rpm without any issues so I shouldn't need to use gear reduction.
Heres a picture of the props ( before I changed one to left handed.) You can see they aren't trimmed on the edges. I will be looking for brass props that are designed for Korts and will change them if I can locate some.
Keith
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Old 06-16-2006, 09:53 AM
  #35  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

Those props look pretty good but if you want brass one try Simon at the prop shop here is his e mail address.
simon@prop-shop.co.uk <simon@prop-shop.co.uk>

The one for my Model slipway's Maggie M cost me $29 USD shipped to me. He makes them up special for kort nozzles. If that isn't too pricey for you he is the man to call.
Tug
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:17 PM
  #36  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

truckin4dave

The tug in the center picture you are inquiring about is my tug. It is mostly scratch built using a Dynamics models Carol Moran fiberglass hull. The tug is based on the plans by Francis Smith, pictures I took of the Angels Gate tug, and pictures of the Coast Guard Tug "Messenger". It is actually a model of the Messenger. The hull is 51" long, so I had to enlarge the plans to a scale of 1/20 scale.

John
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Old 06-22-2006, 12:02 AM
  #37  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

XCpilot - That is a great looking boat. Can you post more pictures and describe the major features ( propulsion, motors, activated components, displacement etc)?
I like the level of detail and would enjoy seeing more of the superstructure.
Cheers, Keith.
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:45 AM
  #38  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

XCPilot, that is a nice looking tug, I just hope that once I can get started on for myself it will turn out as good as all of yours. I have just resently got my hands on a copy of the plans of Francis Smith. Thanks for sharing the pic of your tug. Dave
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Old 06-22-2006, 05:54 AM
  #39  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

John It is a great looking tug you have there. The old Dynamic hulls are great if you can finds one today. What do you use for power?
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:28 PM
  #40  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

John,

Thumbs up on the tug[sm=thumbup.gif] You have done a wonderful job on the detailing of her. More closeups would be nice if possible.
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Old 06-22-2006, 11:30 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

Thank you all for the compliments. This tug was my first and only scratchbuilt shipmodel. Below is some information on the model and some pictures.


USGC Tug “Messenger” Model Specs

Length: 51”

Width: 14”

Displacement: 80 pounds

Motors: two 12 volt Pittman 3700 motors geared to single shaft

Batteries: four 17 amp hour gel cells

Bollard pull: 16 pounds

Tug is modeled after an 85’ harbor tug built in the early 1940’s for the US army. After World War II the tug was transferred to the US Coast Guard and named the “Messenger”. A full-size example of this tug is the “Angles Gate” and can be seen at the Los Angeles harbor maritime museum. The model is scratch built with a fiberglass hull and plywood superstructure and deck. It has working deck and navigation lights.

John
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Old 06-23-2006, 02:33 AM
  #42  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

With the addition pics I would have to give two thumbs up that is an awesome job on the deck work. Being Retired Navy I have always been impressed with tugs and how something so small can handle large Navy ships and maneuver them around. Again great Job! Dave


At present this is my project I am getting ready to start!
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Old 06-23-2006, 02:09 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

John, Those are impressive numbers. I am also using a pair of Pittman 3700 on twin 60 mm Korts and was interested in the pull you get. I wasn't thinking anywhere near 16 lbs but if that is what you are getting, I look forward to being able to measure mine shortly. So far, I have only done some testing for leaks in the bathub but when I fired up one of the Pittmans, water flushed out of the tub so I guess trying both at the same time will have to wait.
What size is your prop? Did you adjust your planss to 1/20 or were they drawn at that scale? My Francis Smith plans are at 1/27.

A question for you experienced mariners...how much does the weight of the boat affect total pull if the power and prop are unchanged?
Cheers
Keith.
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Old 06-23-2006, 09:44 PM
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

xcpilot,

I like the way you spaced the vent pipes off of the superstructure, most people would have just glued them on the wall.

A true sign of one of one who pays attention to detail. [sm=thumbup.gif]
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Old 06-23-2006, 10:35 PM
  #45  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

Keith,
The weight of the boat does have some affect on it's pull strength. The boat's weight is a liability in that it has to be included when you use the boat for pulling (you gotta get it moving, right?). It's also a benifit in that it tends to keep the props in the water where they belong, and sort of keep things moving once you get it moving (momentum, and not really that big'a deal as a benifit). In most cases, lighter is better, to a point, sort of. It also makes the boat look more 'scale'. Not really something to worry about till the water starts lapping at the top of the deck... sort of.
- 'Doc
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Old 06-23-2006, 11:48 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

The prop on my tug is a 4 blade 4.75" diameter prop. The two pittman motors are geared at 3:1 into a single shaft.

John
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Old 06-23-2006, 11:58 PM
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

Doc.. That makes sense and I thought it was the case. I have been told that a properly pitched single prop will outpull a pair of smaller units if the same power is applied. I think this may prove to be the case given the pull that John is experiencing on his Tug. With 80 lbs, displacement and a 4. 75 " prop, he gets a 16 lb pull. I will have the same power on two 2 .5 " Korts and a much lighter boat - about 35 lbs so the results will be interesting. If I can get anything near 16 lbs, I'll have to reinforce my H bit.
Keith.
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Old 11-20-2006, 05:07 PM
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

My Farther built this tug as well . I know this is a old thread, but I always wonder if there were more tugs like my Dads.
Nice to see the tugs and Francis Smith, the man who made the first tug.
I have the Model builder magazines December 1974 volume # 36 & January 1975 volume # 37
Article says, tug is a 85 FT Harbor Tug was designed by the US Army in world war ll, for harbors and rivers thruoghout the country.

It took my Farther 1 year of spare time to complete the tug.
I was 16 years old at the time, so I remeber the build very well.
I still have the jig he made for the hull. I have not found the plans yet.
The tug has full lighting, bow thrusters , forward & reverse speed controll .
1976 was the last time it was in the water as far as I know!
It still runs and all lighting works. The mast is missing, I will make a new one.
In 1997 my Dad pasted away and the tug was left to me.
I have the tug on my fireplace mantle as a display model .
I don't know if I will ever put in the water again.

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Old 11-20-2006, 06:42 PM
  #49  
Tug Guy
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

Old Thread or not it is always nice to see these old tugs. It looks like your dad did a good job building this one.

Tug
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Old 11-20-2006, 06:59 PM
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Default RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate

Thanks Tug , your Tug is very nice too!
when did you build yours?

Ultimate48
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