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the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

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Old 10-21-2009, 10:33 AM
  #1101
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Hi Whitewolf,

I agree, a bunch of months ago, I was about to tear my deck apart to make it level, but the re work would be insane so I left it.

Consider it a blessing in disguise!

Sleep tight!

-Rich.

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Old 10-21-2009, 10:46 AM
  #1102
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Hi Whitewolf,

The deck was designed to be walked on and the deck hand/crew would use it to go fore and aft so it had to be level. If it were sloped, it would be dangerous. It may seem narrow in some areas but it was a valid walkway. The top of the cabins had the nice stain moldings that doubled as a railing so the deck hand would hold on and not slip. Walking into the main cabin to go fore especially when the owner was present was out of the question.

-Rich.
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:58 PM
  #1103
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Hi Whitewolf & Captains,

Here are the pictures of the molding assembly.

I will take some more so that you can see the double molding on the cabin & how it fits to the hull molding.

-Rich.
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:13 AM
  #1104
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Hi Whitewolf and Captains,

Here is how the 3 piece molding was implemented on Dauntless.

I will edit this “how to” and add the sizes of the wood strips, and an additional picture or 2 for reference.

Molding 1: epoxied to the cabin.

Molding 2: epoxied to the hull

Molding 3: epoxied to the top side of molding 1 but flush against and resting on molding 2.


There were 3 moldings used, each were a different size. Moldings 2 and 3 can be the same size, but I thought molding 3 looked better being a bit smaller than molding 2, but that is just an opinion. Moldings 2 and 3 should not be taller than molding 1. The moldings I chose for 2 and 3 were the same height as molding 1 when put together.

Pictures one & two are of molding 1. This molding was epoxied to the cabin. We will refer to it as molding 1

Pictures 3 & 4 are of the 1/8” wood strip that got epoxied to the hull. (We will call it molding 2).

I took molding 2, placed it against molding 1 and traced molding 2 with a pencil onto the hull. Afterwards, I used painters tape to tape off the rest of the deck so that epoxy will not get onto the painted deck. At this point, the only part of the deck exposed was the 1/8” wide area that the molding will be glued to.

Next, I mixed up epoxy, dipped the wood strip and my fingers tips in it, and lightly and evenly coated the Molding 2 on all 4 sides. It was important not to glob it on, just enough to lightly coat the strip evenly. This is so that afterwards I can sand the un-adhered sides and have them close to or paint ready. Then I placed the molding onto the deck pushing firmly against the cabin side using cling wrap as a separator. The Cling wrap began inside the cabin and was draped over the cabin sides. Once the wood strip was in place and beginning to bond, I took a spray bottle of rubbing alcohol and sprayed my fingers and wiped with a paper towel. (Rubbing alcohol removes epoxy instantly from skin.) Than I went back and continued to push the hull molding against the cabin side and hull making sure it set in without any gaps.

After molding 2 was cured, I carefully tore away the cling wrap and removed the cabin from the hull. Then I removed the rest of the Cling Wrap and lightly sanded any excess epoxy and cling wrap stuck to the molding with 400 grit sandpaper. Once molding 2 was lightly sanded and cleaned, the cabins were put back on and inspected.

Next up was molding 3 seen in pictures 5-6. (I will be sure to take more detailed pictures)

I used Cling Wrap again, this time it was draped over the deck to keep molding 3 from adhering to molding 2. This molding gets epoxied to molding 1. I mixed up some epoxy, dipped in my finger tips, and lightly coated all four sides of the molding. I pressed molding 3 against the corner of molding 1 and molding 2 and held it there until it adhered to molding 1. Soon after, it was dry.

After molding 3 was done, I carefully removed the cling wrap, and carefully lifted off the cabins being sure to not tear away the new molding. Once the cabins were removed, I removed any cling wrap stuck to the molding and lightly sanded the molding smooth and removing small bits of cling wrap and excess epoxy. Then, I carefully placed the cabins onto the hull. The cabins are now perfectly fitted to the hull, but I am not done.

I re-taped leaving a small seam between the deck and bottom corner of molding 2. This will stretch the length of the molding. (Fore & aft) both port and starboard. Then, I will mix up another batch of epoxy, using my finger and rub it in the corner of molding 2 going the length of the cabins. I am doing this for 2 reasons. One is, I want to add a little bit more reinforcement to the molding. Two is, I don’t want the molding to look tacked on; I want to remove the sharp corner between the deck and the corner of the molding to give it a bit more of a natural look.

Finally, the moldings will be painted grey.

Here are the tools used:

• 3 wood strips, preferably basswood.
• Painters tape
• 5 minute epoxy
• Glad Cling Wrap

**Rubbing alcohol in a spray bottle and paper towels (to clean hands) optional, but good for other build uses.

Tip: Wood Strips come in 24” lengths. The forecastle is not perfectly straight, but bends inward toward the bow. To keep the wood strip manageable cut it in half or 12”. This will help you keep it exactly where you want it without relying on an extra set of hands.

-Rich.
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:53 AM
  #1105
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Oh yeah, right,

The above pictures also show off some of the blue finish & the painted boot stripe. Over the weekend I have some touch ups to do to get the boot stripe transition perfectly even on both sides. I have figured out a way on "making it" over the chine so that any angle you look at the transition, the stripe looks correct and flows.

Now I know why boat companies don't use external chines anymore: What a P.I.A.!


-Rich.
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Old 10-22-2009, 02:22 PM
  #1106
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Hi Captains,

I happened to run across this on youtube. It is not Dauntless, but the Commuter Aphrodite. I knew it would be a matter of time before someone would custom make one in RC.

This is a beauty!

http://www.youtube.com/user/JimsBoats#p/a

-Rich.
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Old 10-22-2009, 04:14 PM
  #1107
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Rich:

Its still a bit hard to see how the capture is made, but it ~appears~ to be similar to an upside-down U shape, w/ the arms of the U formed bu the deck edge & piece 3, the top of the U with piece 1, and the deck piece #2 captive between the arms of the U...

Do I have that right? Thats how I thought of making one as well, but pieces 1 and 2 would be 1/16" sq, and #3 being 1/8 x 1/16", so the over-all replacement molding comes out at 1/8", as specified in the plans.

The other option would be to make a lip ~inside~ the cabin edge, where its hidden, and does not need to be as intricate.

Just idle ideas...
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:45 AM
  #1108
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

hi guys, My name is Mike and I would like to join your group. I built my Dauntless hull last year and I'm going to finish the boat this winter. My next step is to glass the hull. I'm planning to use 45 min. West system epoxy and 2 os. fiberglass. Should I fiberglass the deck or just put resin on it. also, if anybody has tips for glassing the hull please share.
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Old 10-24-2009, 09:04 AM
  #1109
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Welcome to the group Mike,

My suggestion would be to use this guys product www.jgreer.com specifically this epoxy AeroMarine 300/21 1 1/2 Quart Kit. It will give you an hours work time and you measure it by the volume not weight. I personally like a lighter weight clothe but that's just my preference. Good luck with your build.

joe

BTW I have no personal or financial interest in the company I just mentioned, other than I like his product and he will answer your questions.
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:30 AM
  #1110
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Thanks Joe, I'll send pics.
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Old 10-25-2009, 11:31 AM
  #1111
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Hi Whitewolf,

Here are some additional pictures of the molding. This is to show the detail of the 3 moldings and how they come together. It was hard to photograph them, but hopefully these will work.


Hi Mike, Welcome aboard!

To answer your questions: Yes, It is best to glass the deck. It is quicker to get a clean finish on a glassed deck than on an epoxied/resined deck, which may require multiple layers of resin and tons sanding to get it smooth like glass. It may seem longer to cut the glass to fit over the decks initially, but the amount of time saved in sanding later on makes up for it.

I also found that following the glassing instructions provided by Dumas was a pretty good way to go. I had never glassed before Dauntless and the instructions helped me get through it without any mishaps.

-Rich.

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Old 10-25-2009, 12:40 PM
  #1112
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Rich:

Sorry, those images have just confused me even more.

Have you got a sketch program you could 'draw' a cut-away edge of the way they are assembled? It looks like they are simply stacked 1-2-3, with one on the bottom, and two above adhered to the side w/ no captive edge at all. I have one, and can sketch out my idea as I described it (both versions) If not, don't worry. I'll figure something out once I get to that stage. Thanks for trying...

Mike:

If you haven't glassed before, and have a smooth hull already, you might consider just using a thinned epoxy coating. Basically you end up with a hard waterproof coating like a urethane, but harder. I used 45 min. set HobyPoxy, and mixed it as directed (50/50 by volume) After about 5 min of mixing, you add Klenk's Epoxy Thinner (yellow label w/ black lettering, often found in the tile section) in VERY small amounts (try an eye-dropper) as it doesn't take much to thin the epoxy down from a thick goo to thin-paint consistancy. Then just paint it on. If you don't feel save mixing the epoxy that way, Black Baron makes epoxy-paint in spray cans... for fuel-proofing aircraft. But its nowhere as cheap. You can even use this OVER paint to make a rock-hard clear-coat.

Just another option... can be used inside and out too!

WhiteWolf
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Old 10-25-2009, 06:04 PM
  #1113
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Hi Whitewolf,

Unfortunately, I don't have any programs to draw up what I am doing.

I still have more to add to the unit. What is shown above is the exterior portion of the unit. There will also be an interior portion installed as well. Once it all comes together, hopefully it will make more sense.




-Rich.
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:48 PM
  #1114
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Thanks for the tips Rich and Whitewolf. I'm going to glass the whole thing. I've done it before. I have been building models for 30 years and I find the dauntless to be very challenging.
It's going to be a fun project !
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Old 10-31-2009, 03:26 PM
  #1115
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Update,

Moving right along.

The molding is ready for paint which will happen when it is not raining. []

I am off to the next segment. I am now taking measurements of all the windows and writing down the measurements and fine tuning each window. Next, is to cut out each window from thin crystal clear plexi, fit in each window & set aside. Then, the frames will be made up and be installed. The frames are going to be made from a thin durable plastic and painted with the cabins.

When the window frames are made, the frames for the 7 louvers will also be made up & installed.

I am hoping to have it all done within the next week. The "glass" will be installed after the cabins and frames are painted.

-Rich.

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Old 10-31-2009, 05:24 PM
  #1116
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Rich404

Update,

Moving right along.

The molding is ready for paint which will happen when it is not raining. []

I am off to the next segment. I am now taking measurements of all the windows and writing down the measurements and fine tuning each window. Next, is to cut out each window from thin crystal clear plexi, fit in each window & set aside. Then, the frames will be made up and be installed. The frames are going to be made from a thin durable plastic and painted with the cabins.

When the window frames are made, the frames for the 7 louvers will also be made up & installed.

I am hoping to have it all done within the next week. The ''glass'' will be installed after the cabins and frames are painted.

-Rich.

wow this is a great thread . i will share this 1979 dumas dauntless that i have . going to put her in the water next week . have to up date some things on her
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Old 11-01-2009, 03:49 AM
  #1117
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Well...

It seems most of the accursed ammonia leaked out of my 'envelope' but there was enough to left to turn the ply almost black. I slapped it on the hull, and strapped it into place to dry. It dinna flex quite as much as I'd hoped, so what I did was added a strap at each frame, tensioning the side-panels into place as much as I can. I'll be applying first glue, and then a first coat of epoxy, to make sure the mostly-shaped side-panels don't decide to debond while I'm working elsewhere. It was goping to be done anyway... not much difference if its now, or later.

I ~may~ see if I can 'paint' some ammonia onto the outer hull-panel surface to let it flex more before doing the final gluing (I've only done the lower edge down by the chines at the moment) but wonder if its worth the attempt. Thoughts on this?

I ~AM~ going to wait until these panels are on before finishing the bow planking, as it'll stiffen the hull assembly considerably. As I handled the hull to get the panel 'tie-straps' in place, I shattered quite a few pieces off my balsa sheers. Then again, many of the protruding bits are not needed, but what is needed can be fabricated in the requisite spots from die-cut scraps and pieces from the frame interiors. Quite a bit of usable wood there, when you think about it.

Still no sign of the shipment, Butch. Gimme a hollar, ok?

WhiteWolf


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Old 11-02-2009, 05:40 PM
  #1118
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Hi Rich, I started glassing my Dauntless. I got half of the bottom done and I'm not happy with the finish. It's OK but I would like it smoother. I put a coat of resin on the hull then applied the cloth. Then I used a brush to smooth it out. I'm thinking about putting the dry cloth on the hull then using a small roller to apply the resin. What do you think. Be honest, I'm a big boy and I can take it. Mike
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Old 11-03-2009, 03:19 AM
  #1119
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Mike:

The one time I used FG resin with glass-cloth, I'd wished I'd done it differently to start, but as they say " Hindsight is the only perfect science" right?

If I'd done it as I thought afterwards, I'd probably lave laid down a thin coat of resin first, let it dry, then removed any obvious bumps. Then I'd lay the dry cloth down, and 'tack' it neatly with a few dabs of 5m epoxy or CA. That way the cloth wouldn't shift as I applied the resin to bond it to the hull. Roller, brush, whatever... so long as I left myself enough work time.

Thats one of the main reasons I preferred slower-setting hobby epoxy to standard glassing resin: much more work-time. The other is ease of mixing: a simple 50/50 mix, not a few drops of hardener to X amount of resin thing... (its the same reason I really hate using Bondo body filler)

Is there any practical reason not to use epoxy instead of FG resin? Not really.

In fact, between the longer work time (if you pick your epoxy right) and being able to thin the epoxy to paint thickness (with the Klenks stuff) its ideal for the task, and it will soak into the cloth and wood. Use it straight inside, and with cloth on the outside.

Or do they make FG resin thats easier to mix/use these days?

WhiteWolf
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Old 11-03-2009, 07:15 AM
  #1120
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Whitewolf, We agree on one thing. Theres got to be a better way. The bottom line Is that the FG resin and cloth does give youthe desired result. The problem is that it's a painstaking process. I thinkI'm going to try the way you suggested on the otherside of the bottom. I'll let you know how itturns out. Mike
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:20 AM
  #1121
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Hi Mike,

Glassing is not so bad when you get the hang of it; it is just a little messy.

Since Dauntless, I have done lots of glassing for surfboard repairs. (Surfing is one of my other hobbies.)[sm=shades_smile.gif]

Here is a quickie on how I would tackle it:

Before glassing, put the dry cloth over the hull, mark with a thin marker, pen or something, then cut the cloth how you want it. There is a good possibility that you might have to cut the cloth on the keel near the bow to get the cloth form correctly in that area.

Once the cloth fits, remove it & mix up some resin.

Apply a coat of resin over the area to be glassed, evenly. A paint brush is the best way to apply it.

Apply the cloth.

Use something to comb the cloth to the resin and get any air bubbles out while it soakes up the resin. There might be a plastic squeegee thing included with the resin kit to do it, if not, old credit cards or similar will do the trick. Old credit cards ROCK for this application!

Start from the keel and comb or squeegee outward; just make sure that the cloth does not move from its position, but if it does, it is wet & can be adjusted. Make sure that the glass is wetted and there are no dry spots underneath..

After the glass is combed and all air bubbles are gone, and there are no dry areas under the cloth, apply a coat of resin over the cloth. The cloth should really disappear with this coat. Use the paintbrush to even out the resin before it dries. Also, gravity will want to do its thing, so don't put a thick coat on the cloth. This will save you time in excess sanding and an uneven finish later on.

*Tip: Don’t install the spray rails before glassing. It will be a huge pain in the a** to glass over them. Save that step until after all the glassing and sanding is done.

After the bottom is done, move onto the sides, just repeat the steps.

Although it was advised, I did not glass the cabins. I used epoxy instead. It kind of worked out for me because there was so much shaping involved that I would have gone through the glass anyway. It does take a lot of work to even out the epoxy coates. When you do lots of sanding, sometimes it may seem to be coming out perfect and then you hit a small air pocket which creates flaws (pits) in the finish. Then you have to go back and fill & sand each flaw until they are all gone which is time consuming. This is avoided by glassing.

If you are not going to shape the cabins, but build it stock, consider glassing them.

Hopefully this will help you a bit.

-Rich.


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Old 11-03-2009, 11:41 AM
  #1122
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

SpecialK,

Very nice! [sm=shades_smile.gif]

Tell us more about your Dauntless! Do you have any pictures sailing her?

-Rich.

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Old 11-03-2009, 12:05 PM
  #1123
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Captains,

There is a better way to avoid all of the glassing on Dauntless!

Frame it out using Dumas bulkheads & instead of planking the exterior in wood, substitute it with aluminum. Use epoxy resin to fill the gaps and drill small holes where the aluminum plank gets epoxied to the bulkhead frames. The resin will fill the small holes in the aluminum plate and work like rivits.
Then, use Epoxy to fill only the seams and sand even.

Now, the hull will be ready for paint because the aluminum is already finished.

The hull will be the same material as the full sized original and collectible wise, it will be much more valuable than the wood counterpart.

This should take a fraction of time needed to glass, sand and even out a wood hull.

One of the many things that I have learned during this rebuild is that aluminum and epoxy resin work really well together.

One day, one day!

-Rich.



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Old 11-03-2009, 07:35 PM
  #1124
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Rich404

SpecialK,

Very nice! [sm=shades_smile.gif]

Tell us more about your Dauntless! Do you have any pictures sailing her?

-Rich.

thanks i did not build this one , but it inspired me to buy a new kit this week I'm going to put new electronics in the one i have next week . i ran the motor . ran good . but i looking forward to my new build
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:08 AM
  #1125
Rich404
 
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Default RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless

Hi specialK,

Cool, when you get this one on the water & get ready to build the next one, surely keep us updated.

Dauntless Captains:

Yesterday, I was approved by the family archive center to research Dauntless.

Tomorrow, I have an appointment at the reading room to sit down & examine all the photos taken of Dauntless while she was in LSR’s possession. [X(]

I feel like a child the day before Christmas! [sm=biggrin.gif]

-Rich.

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