the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
01-22-2012, 11:41 AM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
ORIGINAL: sgarwood
Any have any recent information as to the status or whereabouts of Dauntless?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xibOL9FZPE
Steve
Any have any recent information as to the status or whereabouts of Dauntless?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xibOL9FZPE
Steve
Welcome to the world of Dauntless.
Unfortunately the yacht was scrapped after this video was taken.
-Rich.
01-22-2012, 01:47 PM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
Thanks Rich,
I had a feeling that this was the case based on narration comments in the video reference not being able to remove the boat from it's beached location. Too bad!
Been working on one - not steady - still in the framing stage. Enjoying your postings and photos for some time now.....
Thanks again
Steve
I had a feeling that this was the case based on narration comments in the video reference not being able to remove the boat from it's beached location. Too bad!
Been working on one - not steady - still in the framing stage. Enjoying your postings and photos for some time now.....
Thanks again
Steve
01-22-2012, 02:23 PM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
ORIGINAL: sgarwood
Thanks Rich,
I had a feeling that this was the case based on narration comments in the video reference not being able to remove the boat from it's beached location. Too bad!
Been working on one - not steady - still in the framing stage. Enjoying your postings and photos for some time now.....
Thanks again
Steve
Thanks Rich,
I had a feeling that this was the case based on narration comments in the video reference not being able to remove the boat from it's beached location. Too bad!
Been working on one - not steady - still in the framing stage. Enjoying your postings and photos for some time now.....
Thanks again
Steve
He got it off the beach and had it on land for a while. I guess the job was bigger than anticipated and eventually lost interest in the project. Our models are the only reminder that there was a yacht named Dauntless.
-Rich.
01-22-2012, 03:28 PM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
Rich,
The video was a good indication that just about every bit of wood was bad - also the mention of termites on top of the rot. I rebuilt a 24' Lyman hardtop - new flooring, floor supports, deck supports, deck and a new hardtop, windshield and more. It wasn't a big job, just hundreds of small ones. Good experience - if I learned anything, it was that it would take more time and money than one could ever anticipate. The smaller versions are not much different. You have to really enjoy this sort of thing and be committed to it!
Getting fired up again to resume work on my Dauntless, then a fiberglass Mr Darby. No running gear yet, so...... on with the show!
Steve
The video was a good indication that just about every bit of wood was bad - also the mention of termites on top of the rot. I rebuilt a 24' Lyman hardtop - new flooring, floor supports, deck supports, deck and a new hardtop, windshield and more. It wasn't a big job, just hundreds of small ones. Good experience - if I learned anything, it was that it would take more time and money than one could ever anticipate. The smaller versions are not much different. You have to really enjoy this sort of thing and be committed to it!
Getting fired up again to resume work on my Dauntless, then a fiberglass Mr Darby. No running gear yet, so...... on with the show!
Steve
01-22-2012, 05:20 PM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
Hi Steve,
It's true, it would have cost a fortune to restore Dauntless to her former glory. A job like that is best left for someone that would have had a passion for the history of the yacht and mega bucks to back it up.
-Rich.
It's true, it would have cost a fortune to restore Dauntless to her former glory. A job like that is best left for someone that would have had a passion for the history of the yacht and mega bucks to back it up.
-Rich.
01-22-2012, 09:04 PM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
Hi captains,
Here is an update. The platform was added to the seating base. The next step will be to plate the outeredge of the seating with aluminum. I chose to do this for two reasons. The first reason is so that it will significantly reduce the time needed to give the seats a professional finish. And second, the plating will be a little higher than theouter platform edge so it will help keep the cushions in place.
The leather came in the mail and it looks and feels awesome! My mother in law gave me a few pointers on how to tackle the cushions.
-Rich.
Here is an update. The platform was added to the seating base. The next step will be to plate the outeredge of the seating with aluminum. I chose to do this for two reasons. The first reason is so that it will significantly reduce the time needed to give the seats a professional finish. And second, the plating will be a little higher than theouter platform edge so it will help keep the cushions in place.
The leather came in the mail and it looks and feels awesome! My mother in law gave me a few pointers on how to tackle the cushions.
-Rich.
01-22-2012, 09:24 PM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
More on the bridge:
The seats extend more than originally anticipated when I created the bridge floor opening from the bridge to the engineroom a few years ago. The seats will not allow the floor to lift out due to the seat design so to remedy this I will create a new border and cut a section of the removable floor and epoxy it to the rest of the permanent flooring. It shouldn't be a whole lot of work but it's a worthy mention.
-Rich.
The seats extend more than originally anticipated when I created the bridge floor opening from the bridge to the engineroom a few years ago. The seats will not allow the floor to lift out due to the seat design so to remedy this I will create a new border and cut a section of the removable floor and epoxy it to the rest of the permanent flooring. It shouldn't be a whole lot of work but it's a worthy mention.
-Rich.
01-22-2012, 09:27 PM
#2109
RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
Rich, looks like we both kicked up some saw dust tonight. Nice work on that bench, I like it.
Here's my completed windshield. I like it much better than the last one I had just kinda thrown together after giving up on the Dumas design. Although not 100% scale, I think this represents the S & S design so much better!
Should I just use a paint brush and put some epoxy on before painting? Or how should I protect and strengthen this wood frame?
Here's my completed windshield. I like it much better than the last one I had just kinda thrown together after giving up on the Dumas design. Although not 100% scale, I think this represents the S & S design so much better!
Should I just use a paint brush and put some epoxy on before painting? Or how should I protect and strengthen this wood frame?
01-23-2012, 07:44 AM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
Thanks Dauntlessfan!
It’s an art deco piece that kind of gives an illusion that it’s floating on air. This is another piece that I would not have ever imagined a few years ago. The smaller starboard side was done too but I didn’t get a good shot of it.
Note that there is an open cavity behind the seat. The lower section was not closed off so we can see in there. I will close it off with another sheet of aluminum but there is a point here. In the owner’s stateroom was a large open cavity in the wall above the bed. It was a large book shelf of sorts. So the book shelf will be seen in the stateroom and set up accordingly.
Hey Dauntlessfan,
The windshield looks great man! I would definitely seal it up with epoxy. It will add a tremendous amount of strength to the job that was done. You did a nice job there so don’t leave it vulnerable to another accident or simply from aging. Use some epoxy to bulletproof and preserve your work.
-Rich.
01-24-2012, 07:51 AM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
Hi captains,
Last night the aluminum work was completed on both bench seats for the back wall. Each seat was done with two pieces of aluminum. One piece was used for the upper and another for the lower part of the seat. On the sides where the upper and lower aluminum meet a little bit of epoxy was put on the seam so that there is no evidence of a transition making it look natural. This work took acouple ofhours to do but now it's just about paint ready.
Had I epoxied the wood and wentby traditional means, there would be a lot more sanding, filling, waiting for epoxy to cure and more sanding until they were perfect. The use of aluminum eliminated that time consuming chore.
The next steps are to lightly sand the aluminum (to remove glue marks) and paint the seats white.
To be continued..
-Rich.
Last night the aluminum work was completed on both bench seats for the back wall. Each seat was done with two pieces of aluminum. One piece was used for the upper and another for the lower part of the seat. On the sides where the upper and lower aluminum meet a little bit of epoxy was put on the seam so that there is no evidence of a transition making it look natural. This work took acouple ofhours to do but now it's just about paint ready.
Had I epoxied the wood and wentby traditional means, there would be a lot more sanding, filling, waiting for epoxy to cure and more sanding until they were perfect. The use of aluminum eliminated that time consuming chore.
The next steps are to lightly sand the aluminum (to remove glue marks) and paint the seats white.
To be continued..
-Rich.
01-24-2012, 12:54 PM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
ORIGINAL: Sound Sailor
There is a nice Dauntless on evilbay right now at a very fair price. It has 3 Graupner 700's in it!
Bill
There is a nice Dauntless on evilbay right now at a very fair price. It has 3 Graupner 700's in it!
Bill
-Rich.
01-25-2012, 11:52 AM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
To much excitement today for an old man!! We have had a warming trend here the past 2 days and my boating pond had a patch of open water. Having completed work on the Dauntless I was anxious to wet the bottom for the first time. I put her in the car and drove the 5 miles to the pond. I took off the superstructure so I could check for leaks and observe the operation of everything. Launched her with no leaks obvious. took her out with out using much throttle. Looking good!! Then I opened her up. good news she planes. Bad news, after about 30-40' she goes dead. Shes about 50' away and drifting toward the ice! What to do?
I drive home to get my tug "Folly" and do a quick charge of the batteries. Drive back to the pond with the tug and the Dautless is now resting against the ice. I launch Folly and run her out to try the rescue. After much manuevering and some ice breaking by the tug, I manage to get her back to shore. WHEW!!.
I didn't know at that point whether the range on the reciever was that short or what happened. After taking her out of the water, I try the controls and had rudder but no power. Not knowing what size fuses to use I had tried 20 amps and they both had blown. WhenI got home I put 30s in and everything is good on dry land.
Lessen learned; Always take the tug no matter whichof my 7 boats I'm operating .
Heres the Folly
I drive home to get my tug "Folly" and do a quick charge of the batteries. Drive back to the pond with the tug and the Dautless is now resting against the ice. I launch Folly and run her out to try the rescue. After much manuevering and some ice breaking by the tug, I manage to get her back to shore. WHEW!!.
I didn't know at that point whether the range on the reciever was that short or what happened. After taking her out of the water, I try the controls and had rudder but no power. Not knowing what size fuses to use I had tried 20 amps and they both had blown. WhenI got home I put 30s in and everything is good on dry land.
Lessen learned; Always take the tug no matter whichof my 7 boats I'm operating .
Heres the Folly
01-25-2012, 01:27 PM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
Hi Bill,
My heart skipped a beat after reading your post!! 
Thank goodness she was still there when you got back to the pond and kudos to Folly for saving the day!! I agree, it’s very necessary to have a rescue boat! I’m going to eventually throw together a springer tug using an old Dumas motor from the parts bin and an old rudder from Dauntless. It will have a very simple pilot house done in 1:16 scale with a figure at the helm.. It will be a quick build later on.
Thank goodness she was still there when you got back to the pond and kudos to Folly for saving the day!! I agree, it’s very necessary to have a rescue boat! I’m going to eventually throw together a springer tug using an old Dumas motor from the parts bin and an old rudder from Dauntless. It will have a very simple pilot house done in 1:16 scale with a figure at the helm.. It will be a quick build later on.Let us know when the sea trials resume! It looks like we will have a nice window for the next few days so there should be minimal ice on the pond! We are having a mild winter so far, knock on wood! Keep up those sea trials until all the gremlins are worked out! 
While you were writing up the post I was shopping for Dauntless at Harbor models. Today was another expensive day for the handsome blue yacht.
After much deliberation I bought the expansion module and decoders for the F-14 marine radio. This option for the TX was very expensive and I’m sure my wife will give me a stern look when she sees the bill. 
Now Dauntless will literally have ‘all the bells and whistles’. 
What this is going to do is control all of the accessories via remote. There are 6 toggle and two proportional switches that will be usedto control various items.
Now Dauntless will literally have ‘all the bells and whistles’. What this is going to do is control all of the accessories via remote. There are 6 toggle and two proportional switches that will be usedto control various items. Here is the breakdown of what the switches will control remotely:
1) Rotating Radar on/off
2) Navigation and exterior lighting on/off
3) Main Cabin ceiling lights on/off
4) Main Cabin Sconces on/off
5) Forecastle lights on/off
6) Owner’s Cabin lights on/off
7) Proportional switch (1) FPV camera left/right
8) Proportional switch (2) FPV camera up/down
Along with that I also bought:
(7) JR plugs for the wiring to the decoder
(1) Rotating geared radar motor for the mast
(1) Masthead light
(1) A 360 degree light which will be located near the mast to provide some lighting for the bridgedeck.
Add this to the inventory of stuff bought for her over the years and WOW.....proof that you CAN spend a small fortunebuilding a model boat!
Add this to the inventory of stuff bought for her over the years and WOW.....proof that you CAN spend a small fortunebuilding a model boat!
I might need a few volunteer captains with rescue tugs on standby when launch day comes. 
-Rich.
01-25-2012, 02:41 PM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
Hi Rich,
Most of us sail where there are no full size boats allowed, so a rescue boat is a necessity. I am part of another online group (as is Bob) of "rag" sailors and the rescue boat that is most common is the Atlantic tug which is what the Folly started out as. It is a RTS boat and is quite acceptable out of the box. In my case I went a little crazy detailing and painting her. As for her being there when I returned, I figured no one would be able to get to her just as I couldn't. Of course a duck or goose may have boarded her. I was more concerned that she might have started taking on water and could sink.
Funny you mention shopping at my favorite supplier today. I also ordered the ready made rotatingradar unit without the mast today from Harbor. I started making a new radar mast yesterday to look more like DF's drawing. I won't be going crazy with details but the base etc will capture the look. As I mentioned earlier the ready made unit is very like the drawing. Basically it appears to be a rotating micro servo and I plan on replacing the antenna with one of the reflector ones like Dauntless had. As for the expense It seems to be true in model boats as in the real ones, " a boat is a hole in the water you pour money into".
It amazes me how you are going to stuff all those switches etc along with batteries in your Dauntless with a fully detailed interior.
Bill
Most of us sail where there are no full size boats allowed, so a rescue boat is a necessity. I am part of another online group (as is Bob) of "rag" sailors and the rescue boat that is most common is the Atlantic tug which is what the Folly started out as. It is a RTS boat and is quite acceptable out of the box. In my case I went a little crazy detailing and painting her. As for her being there when I returned, I figured no one would be able to get to her just as I couldn't. Of course a duck or goose may have boarded her. I was more concerned that she might have started taking on water and could sink.
Funny you mention shopping at my favorite supplier today. I also ordered the ready made rotatingradar unit without the mast today from Harbor. I started making a new radar mast yesterday to look more like DF's drawing. I won't be going crazy with details but the base etc will capture the look. As I mentioned earlier the ready made unit is very like the drawing. Basically it appears to be a rotating micro servo and I plan on replacing the antenna with one of the reflector ones like Dauntless had. As for the expense It seems to be true in model boats as in the real ones, " a boat is a hole in the water you pour money into".
It amazes me how you are going to stuff all those switches etc along with batteries in your Dauntless with a fully detailed interior.
Bill
01-25-2012, 05:57 PM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
Hi Bill,
I heard that the Atlantic tug is a good rescue boat from multiple sources but never really looked into it. Perhaps you will show me the tug in the near future...
I’m glad you were able to save Dauntless. That must have been a real scare having to leave her at the pond unattended. It’s a bad feeling having to do that. I left two boats over the years that I never seen again. The first time it happened to me I was a kid and another boat was lost just a few years ago. Both times this happened; I didn’t have a rescue boat to save them. There has to be a real plan put in place for Dauntless because I don’t think I will ever build anything like this again. Do you know why the fuses blew on your boat.?
The cool thing about ordering the expansion module and decoder is that it eliminates all of the switches and servos needed by other methods. It is a small lightweight box that controls all of those accessories. The fact that it takes up so little weight became the influence in my decision to buy it. Keeping the weight as low as possible is the name of the game at this point.
The batteries for the boat will be two very powerful lipo’s running in parallel. They will power the power distribution panel which will provide power to everything. The LIPO’s are also very light, powerful and small compared to other types of batteries with similar power ratings.. They will be placed at the keel in the engineroom between the two motors. The Lipo’s will be concealed in a custom fire resistant aluminum and sand padded case. (built by me) The LIPO’s are the best option for having the full interior and an array of accessories while keeping the weight manageable.
-Rich.
01-25-2012, 07:07 PM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
Rich, setting up a 2 motor drive from scratch is all new to me so not sure of the problem. Did I use to small an amp fuse? Am I running to large props? (2") I am running Graupner 700 rated 9.6 volt but using 12vbatteries which i was told should not be a problem. I suspect I need smaller props but don't know if I should go 1 1/2 or 1 3/4. My speed controls should handle 30 amps no problem so I might try the present setup with 30 amp fuses.
Happy to show you the tug any time. Meanwhile there are many videos of the Aguacraft Atlantic on YouTube. If doing a springer I might consider an electric jet drive so as to get in close to a far shore and also not foul a prop.
Bill
Happy to show you the tug any time. Meanwhile there are many videos of the Aguacraft Atlantic on YouTube. If doing a springer I might consider an electric jet drive so as to get in close to a far shore and also not foul a prop.
Bill
01-25-2012, 07:50 PM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
Hi Bill,
I think the props are your issue. 2" props may be too much for your direct drive motors. I currently have 2" props and am going to change them because high performance motors were installed.
How many RPM's are your motors and what size motor can do you have?
Also, check to see if your shaft couplers are too tight. This can also raise amps because it causesthe motors to work harder. The props should move fairly easy with one finger. (always make sure power is disconnected before runninga finger/ stick around a prop)
Yes, go with the 30AMPS if your electronics can handle it. This will give the boat a bigger threshold for Amp surges.
-R.
I think the props are your issue. 2" props may be too much for your direct drive motors. I currently have 2" props and am going to change them because high performance motors were installed.
How many RPM's are your motors and what size motor can do you have?
Also, check to see if your shaft couplers are too tight. This can also raise amps because it causesthe motors to work harder. The props should move fairly easy with one finger. (always make sure power is disconnected before runninga finger/ stick around a prop)
Yes, go with the 30AMPS if your electronics can handle it. This will give the boat a bigger threshold for Amp surges.
-R.
01-25-2012, 10:07 PM
#2120
RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
I tried the 2" 3-blade Dumas props direct drive. The motors and speed control were too hot to touch after about 3-5 minutes at full speed.
Same motors with 1 3/4" props, all equip was hardly even warm after about 20-30 minutes of brisk cruising. Yes, she ran 10-15% slower, but never worrying about overheating was worth it to me. This was back when I had Mabuchi 555 motors installed.
Rich, Bill's Graupner Speed 700 9.6 v is rated 13,000 - 15,000 RPM no load, pulls about 15 amps at max efficiency, 65-75 amps at stall. I'm guessing since he's giving them 12 volts these figures could be higher?
It's all about fine tuning, sea trials, and luck. If it were easy, it'd be a boring hobby, right?
Same motors with 1 3/4" props, all equip was hardly even warm after about 20-30 minutes of brisk cruising. Yes, she ran 10-15% slower, but never worrying about overheating was worth it to me. This was back when I had Mabuchi 555 motors installed.
Rich, Bill's Graupner Speed 700 9.6 v is rated 13,000 - 15,000 RPM no load, pulls about 15 amps at max efficiency, 65-75 amps at stall. I'm guessing since he's giving them 12 volts these figures could be higher?
It's all about fine tuning, sea trials, and luck. If it were easy, it'd be a boring hobby, right?
01-26-2012, 03:52 AM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
Thanks guys. I thought it probably was the props. It just bugs me to waste money trying different sizes and winding up with some I can't use. cest la vie. Rich, these motors are ball bearing so I don't think coupler tension would affect them that much. Couplers to loose, conversely , allow the armatures to travel to much between forward and reverse and also cause damage to the motor.
Think I'll just wait a while and then buy new props. I've been spending a lot on her and spring is a ways away. Got the radar mast to finish for now thanks to DF.
Bill
Think I'll just wait a while and then buy new props. I've been spending a lot on her and spring is a ways away. Got the radar mast to finish for now thanks to DF.
Bill
01-26-2012, 08:21 AM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
Hi Bill,
Yep I agree with Dauntlessfan, this hobby would be boring if we had all the answers.
looked up the specs to your motor to cross reference Dauntlessfan’s but found that Graupner made about four different versions of your motor all with different RPM ratings. This was dizzying because the specs were different for each one.
From what I read the 9.6V motor can take as much as 12V so you should be ok there. If we go by Dauntlessfan’s assessment, the 13,000RPM are for 9.6V and the 15,000RPM’s are for 12V applications.
The fact that there is so much loss of RPM’s at the wheel brings to believe that they aren’t very efficient motors and are best suited for lighter boats/airplanes. The description says that the motors consume about 350-500 watts @ 25-33 AMPS max. Again, I guess that the 500 watts and 33AMPS are for a 12V application. The spec then says that the max amps are 31 so there is an inconsistency there.
And more specs from Germany:
Specification
| Blockierstromaufnahme | 117 | A |
| Operating voltage range | 7,2...19,2 | V |
| Diameter | 45 | mm |
| Free shaft length | 7,5 | mm |
| Case length | 66 | mm |
| All-up weight, approx. | 353 | g |
| Maximum efficiency | 77 | % |
| No-load current drain (A) | 2,17 | A |
| Charging rate at max. efficiency | 15,93 | A |
| Permissible motor direction | R und L | |
| No-load speed | 15750 | U/min |
| Nominal voltage | 9,6 | V |
| Shaft diameter | 5 | mm |
After going over the data from Dauntlessfan and online sources I would look for a prop between the sized of 1 ½” on the low end and 1 3/4” on the high end to find the maximum efficiency for that motor.
I found two props that fit your criteria at your favorite supplier-Harbor Models.
Prop shop of England has two props that would work. The first prop is conservative at 1.5” diameter by 1.7” pitch for $25.00 each.
The next is a little more aggressive with a 1.7” diameter and a 1.9” pitch. I think that either one of these would work well on your motor. This prop is $28 each.
Both of these props come LH and RH for 3/16”.
Now that the selection is narrowed down it may help you decide on your next move.
-Rich.
01-26-2012, 10:08 AM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
Hi Bill,
hmmm...The Atlantic tug does seem like a nice rescue boat. I was just checking it out.
http://video1.hobbico.com/gallery/aqu/aqub59-deluxe.mpg
-Rich.
hmmm...The Atlantic tug does seem like a nice rescue boat. I was just checking it out.
http://video1.hobbico.com/gallery/aqu/aqub59-deluxe.mpg
-Rich.
01-26-2012, 10:21 AM
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RE: the unofficial home of the dumas dauntless
Thanks for the research, Rich. Much appreciated.
In the "even a blind dog finds a bone once in a while" category, I had narrowed it down to those same 2 choices yesterday without any supporting data. I figured allI knew was I needed to go smaller and have a 3/16 shaft size. That came down to those 2 since they were the only 3/16s he carries. Thought the 1 1/2 might lose enough speed so it would not plane. I probably will order the 1.7 when I am a little flusher.
Thanks again my friend.
Bill
In the "even a blind dog finds a bone once in a while" category, I had narrowed it down to those same 2 choices yesterday without any supporting data. I figured allI knew was I needed to go smaller and have a 3/16 shaft size. That came down to those 2 since they were the only 3/16s he carries. Thought the 1 1/2 might lose enough speed so it would not plane. I probably will order the 1.7 when I am a little flusher.
Thanks again my friend.
Bill