minimans

went out agin today and had a blast then she blew the motor fuse for the port side on full throttle, didn't do it yeserday? replaced fuse and off she went 10min later popped the fuse again motors were barely warm and the ESC's were quite cool? both shaft nice and free with no tight spots? I'm a bit baffled by it I am using 35amp glass fast blow fuses which showed no signs of heat but I think I will try some slow blow fuses first then try going up another 5 amps which I would feel to be the upper limit of what it should need?

machinist007

Well It's been awhile since I've posted but here is a update on what has gone one with my boat. I've been out at least 3 times so far in the last month and a half. Once in Delaware at the head of the creek near my parents, only bad thing was that the pond spillway was near by so I had to watch the current. The other two times, have been on the creeks on either side of my community, Stoney Creek and Rock Creek. Saturday was Rock Creek, and all went pretty well there was a large cabin cruiser that came into the no wake zone pretty hot and heavy then shut it down. But by then the damage was done for me. I was running in a sheltered cove but it wasn't sheltered enough. The wake didn't look that big coming in but at about 30 feet from the shore it GREW. I made a run for shore so I could get time to turn the boat around but the first wave caught me in the stern. I did manage to get it turned around but it was hard going, that way I could ride the waves out bow first. After everything calmed down I brought the boat over need the bulkhead I was standing on, the owners cabin area had at least 1 inch of water floating along the deck. All systems still responding so I kept going for about another 20 minutes. My boys had fun driving the boat as well during this time, no more boats causing problems thankfully. When I did pull the boat out the 1 inch was still floating around the owners cabin, and I looked down in the bilge there was about another inch. I'm glad that all my electronics are up and out of the way, other wise it would have been a mess to fix. It was a adventure, but one that I could have done without.

John

Hydro Junkie

It's times like that when you almost need a servo controlled bilge pump. Too bad there wasn't law enforcement around to cite the operator of that full sized boat

minimans

That's one of the reasons I put all my electronics up high as well, that and too keep them up in the air through the cabin windows.

rblubaugh

My Feedback: (5)

"one small problem I need to address is I couldnt get the motors to sinc, port side would always start before the starboard and run at different speeds until full throttle. I guess thats the hazzard of running two ESC's? It meant I was constantly juggling with the rudder to keep her straight so I need to find a way to fix it any idea's??"

Minimans,

I had the same problem and the cause is the motors, they are timed for high speed in one direction so when you reverse direction they run at a different timeing. You probably noticed a "red" dot or mark on the back of the motors which indicates where to put the 'red' wire and is also an indication that the motor is "timed". Zero times motors or non-timed motors do not have this 'red' mark and run equally well in each direction.

What to do? Got to Harbor Models, Hardware, Electronics, Speed Controls then down to the bottom (download the instructions to see if you really want it) and consider buying a "Rudder and Motor Mixer Control Unit". I have one installed and by moving the trim control you can ALMOST eliminate the problem, enough so a little rudder trim 'should' straighten you out. Your only other option is to replace the motors with some that are not timed (zero timing).

Bob

minimans

Ah! now I remember your original posts about this problem. yes the Traxxas 770's are not unidirectional so that is the cause of the problem, its not really a huge problem as I can trim the rudder a few degrees and that takes care of it until full tilt boogie then i have to trim again. (not unlike the airplanes I used to fly) so I think I'll learn to live with it, but I do have a pair of 550 size motors that are left and right rotation to try. also I read that eventually the motor timing will change as the motor runs in with the new direction it's all in the brushes apparently? biggest news today is my local hobby shop has four NiMh batteerys in stock for me so I can get rid of the gel cells! I'm off to the lake tomorrow to try them out...............
I can put the gel cells back where they belong in my racing karts!!

rblubaugh

My Feedback: (5)

Stay with your 770's, you definitely won't like the limited power of the 550's even though they are left and right rotation, the Dauntless is too much boat for them. Dauntlessfan had a pair a long time ago, plus gel cells, and upgraded to 700's.

minimans

Yes I'm going to stay with the 770's. Funny but since I fitted the new MiMh Batterys it seems to be 90% better in forward but worse in reverse? Which is OK as one motor turning for reverse works for me! So I think I'm good, but there's a water test coming up this afternoon and I'll know more then. I'm running four 7.2 packs of 5,000Mah Two to each ESC giving a total voltage of 14.4V to the motors at full chat so I should see an improvement on top end and as the batterys are willing to give up there rated current faster than the Gell cells It should stay up on the plane OK. I'll try for some video this afternoon as my buddy and son are coming out to play.........................................

minimans

Well the runs with the four 5000 NiMh batterys was a bit of an up and down experience! The boat took off like a rocket well above scale speed I would imagine! this made turning the boat at the end of the lake a bit traumatic!! I never did cut down the rudders so at speed it was like doing a handbrake turn and I almost fliped the boat! as luck would have it there was plenty of room to ease off the speed and rudder and get back to normal attitude.................so thats the good part? well the batteries lasted just about 15min's? which was a bit of a surprise as I was expecting longer run times with them? but maybe it's because they are new and need to be discharged and re charged to get the full run time? I did charge them first of course but my charger is only marked for NiCad's so maybe not suitable for NiMh's I need to do a bit of research I suppose, but it's definatly promising but at a cost of $160 for four batterys for me a bit expensive for little gain, as I've said I'm happy to cruise around. I left all the original wiring for the 12V Gell cells in the boat so perhaps I'll take both to the lake with me and cruise around with those and fit the good batteries for a quick thrill everynow and again! Anyway my buddies son had a blast and is now on at his dad to build him a boat!!

P.S. The motors did get hot with the new batteries, too hot to touch even with the water cooling at the output end. so I think I shall bend up some coils to go around the main body of the motors. I did have plenty of water exiting the exhaust at speed though, not like Big D but you could see it coming out OK. The ESC's stayed nice and cool being mounted high in the main cabin in line with the windows which I havn't glazed yet and possably won't at this point. My pick ups are home made but seem to do the job very well. I may fit a another pair to feed the motor coils just to make sure I have enough flow though.

minimans

Seems my old battery charger was not suitable for the NiMh cells...........................More expense and hope I didn't damage the batteries by miss charging them.........................I know it's the joys of a hobby but this boat got real expensive the last few weeks..............Trouble is with electronics I'm wary of buying used from eBay who knows how abused the stuff was? So new 2.4 Radio $150 two Traxxas ESC's $140 Two traxxas 770 Motors $80 four NiMh Batteries $160 one new Multiple charger $100 And that's just to make it move.......................$630................... .OK I'm done gripping.............. now it's still worth it though just to watch it cruise across the lake and if I don't sink it, it will be around long after I'm gone...............

dauntlessfan

Yes mini those expenses do stink but you're also right about the outcome. I've had my boat for more than a decade now, and taking it to the pond never gets dull. Plus the comments from passer-byers is nice too.

I use a standard peak charger for my NiMhs. What are you using? Did you batteries get exceedingly hot during the test run?

My boat is laid out to take either NiMH or SLAs. Just like you are thinking, I can take both sets to the water. I start with the big SLAs, then after a while put the NiMHs in and surprise everyone with the major speed increase .

minimans

The charger I had was a plain old nicad charger not peak detecting. when I initially charged the new batteries they didn't even get warm, with the new charger I got this morning the batteries got nice and toasty until the charger automatically went into a trickle maintainance mode so we shall see on Friday or maybe tomorrow if I can break away early from the shop how they perform I'm hopeing for a big increase in run time!! But i will take the SLA's as well just in case...........................

WhiteWolf McBride

My Feedback: (3)

Miniman...

Looks nice... I am waiting for a warm sunny day to epoxy-coat my hulls. Then I can put the running gear & rudders in, and water-test 'em.

Just an idea for that rod - they both taper and flex, so... try finding a suitably long seagull or such feather, and strip off all the side-bits, leaving the main shaft of the feather... it tapers, and is naturally bent. To get it to survive some, pour some slow-set CA or thinned epoxy down the inner hollow. Presto, insta-rod. Your figure looks decent though.

Your water-cooling may need a pump with that much feed-line - a cheap fuel-filler pump will run on 12v or less, or even a surplus car windshield washer pump. For the ESC's - you appear to be using brushed motors, so mebbe a Dimension Engineering 2x12RC 'Sabertooth' unit would do the trick, runs $65 a pop, and ship Internationally for $3. ( http://www.dimensionengineering.com/...bertooth2x12rc ) Does 12amps constant, 25amps peak. And as its a single unified ESC, it'll spin the motors up equally (unless they are badly matched!)

minimans

Nice, it seems to go quite a bit faster after you have the hull complete, Warm sunny? wev'e gone from cold to heat wave here in N California it was 95deg. yesterday here at the shop and actually 120deg. inside the shop!! (big metal building) same today so I wont be here much longer...................
Yes I was going to run both motors on a single ESC, but they are BIG motors so I decided two ESC would prevent problems with load and also as has been pointed out with two independant motor and control systems if a motor or ESC failed (as happened when the fuse blew on me) the boat is not stranded in the middle of the lake......
The Water seems to flow quite well producing a steady stream from the exhaust pipes at the back but yes I was thinking of a pump or two for when I add the motor coils.
Yes a fine idea on the fishing rod!! I have Raptors and buzzards flying around the shop all day long so I'll look for a suitable feather

WhiteWolf McBride

My Feedback: (3)

Mini...

A way to see if you can use the Sabertooth unit:

If you have a decent multimeter, set it to the respective DC Amps range (20a mebbe?) and then place it inline on the red lead. Then run your boat. To be able to read the meter, You'll need to hold it, either bow-in to the beach (safer), or bow-out to the lake... but HOLD it, as that will make the props pull more load than when the boat is allowed to run free.

That's ONE motor, right? But ~EACH~ side of the Sabertooth can supply 12amps, 25amps at peak.

If you have a small video-cam (or access to one) You can get a better reading by placing the meter inline as above, but then the vid-cam so it can see the meter face, then run the boat around the pond, varying the speed. The video record will show the varying load that the motor is pulling (if you have two meters, hey, go for it!)

If you're within the 12amp norm / 25amp peak, stuff the separate units, and go get a Sabertooth. The thing has overload protection anyway, I'm tempted to get one even without any load-testing! I can always use it on one of my tanks if its not capable for the boat.

And I'm sure the overload protection is a 'powerdown' for a cooling off period, then it resets itself... basically an auto-reset breaker. But thius nis clearly noted: " Overcurrent and thermal protection means you'll never have to worry about killing the driver with accidental stalls or by hooking up too big a motor. " Aka, you CAN'T burn it out if its not enough ESC for your motors!

If its not enough, next model up is the 2x25 unit... 25 amp normal, 50 amp max... $125 a pop, complete with heatsinks.

WhiteWolf

minimans

Funny you should mention tanks, I have a mixer unit made especially for tanks that I thought I might try on my next boat. It's a T2000 Caterpillar it allows you to steer a tank using differential motor speeds Perfect for the boat I thought but it's too low an amperage for the big boat so will try it on something smaller.

Went out to the lake again and everything is good as gold! with the batterys properly charged I had good run times and sh'e fast when I want her to be so I think I'll leave everythig as is, except I will be adding to the cooling and using a couple of computer water pumps to get a better flow. and when the bank account has recovered a sound unit she's too quiet to be going that fast! and I need a horn to scare the ducks away............Paul

minimans

Went out last night to run the boat had a blast for about 45min then lost the port motor again, bought her in on the one motor thinking it was the fuse blew again, I could smell the boat before i got it to shore! fuse was good but the motor was burnt out, makes me think there has always been a problem with that motor hence the previous blown fuses? this is the motor that is turning in the opposite direction but I can't see that causing a problem like this? I will have to give Traxxas a call on Monday and see what I can do. Luckily the motors are the cheapest part of the drive train!! one thing I noticed that with the new batteries she cruises on one motor just as fast as when both motors were running with the SLA's............................And another good thing is that even with a burnt motor I got her back to shore no problem if it had been one of my aircraft in the old days probably wouldn't have been such a good outcome........................................... .......

Rich404

Having the duel motor setup is a blessing for when things go wrong!! I wish you luck getting that port motor situated.

-Rich.

Rich404

So today I removed the Harbor Models Steering Solution in favor of standard metal rod assemble. The steering is setup nicely on this boat! I decided to to a bench test before taking her down to the lake to ensure everything was working smoothly especially after having done work to the port side shaft a couple months ago. So I started he up and slowly moved the twin throttles forward..All seemed ok but these was still noise coming from the port shaft. So I carefully pushed forward to see how she would react. The sound got louder and louder and I examined the shaft, props, etc at about 1/4 throttle. I pushed more and brought her motors to an unharnessed roar at about 3/4 throttle....Finally the sound of the roar dropped away to the fine tuned sound of the starboard motor sound and the low content sound of the port side motor. I looked under the boat to see the port side prop no longer spinning. Once I looked inside I saw that the new port coupler was once again destroyed.

This is beyond frustrating to me. I won't have time to look at her again for a while but I need to get this figured out. I am going to eventually remove the motor/mounts all the way to the shaft strut and reinstall everything to be sure the alignment is laser straight.

So she will not see the lake anytime soon. I wish I had more time to dedicate to her right about now..

-Rich.

minimans

HI Rich I know I'm a noob at the boat thing but I've been restoring cars for nigh on 50 years and I think your problem is that your two fixed points on the drive train ie motor shaft and prop shaft are so close together that even with the U/J joint the slightest missalignment is destroying that coupler. because a single U/J canot articulate enough to compensate. If you have room I think if you try a double U/J joint this will go away. Think of the U/J allowing for a misalignment in angle, if your misaligned vertically or horizontally you then have two points of misalighnment and a Single U/J and the distance between the two fixed points being so small does not allow any give at all. Anyway I hope that makes sense and good luck

I tried the motor this morning on the bench and it seems to have recovered? not seen a motor fix itself before?? so I kind of suspect that maybe it wasn't the motor but the ESC that shut down even though it wasn't even warm when I got back to shore? anyway I'm just going to the lake now to see what if anything is going on...............Paul

kokaneezer

Good morning Rich-
Dumas has replacement oilite bearings. Under misc hdwe find oilite bearing kit #7011. Complete replacement kit for 3/16 shafts. After 13 years or so of running these, they should probably be replaced. I remember you posting that you did a bit of filing or sanding on your bushings earlier. They would need to be round concentrically OD and ID and probably aren't anymore. If they get cocked against shaft a bind will occur quickly. Steel vs. bronze/13 years? Somethings gotta give. Occams razor. Just sayin'
Steve

minimans

Well it's definatly the motor, I suspect that running it backwards is not the thing to do! I dont pretend to know squat about small motors but I'm led to believe these have a advance of some sort that precludes running in reverse direction for any period of time. So it's either a reverse gearbox on the one shaft or a pair of 0 timed motors Or run with non-contra rotating props I shall have to find the cheapest option as the hobby bank is Skint as we say in Jolly old England..........................

kokaneezer

Ahoy Mini-
You could get tried and true Dauntless motors in the Graupner 700 BB Turbos. Bill uses them. I have them. www.westbourne-model.co.uk They speak your language. Cost 26 pounds each. VAT included. Just sayin'
Steve

minimans

You could be right! and since I'm off to England in June I may well pick up a pair while I'm there.......................

minimans

well I just ordered a new R/H screw from dumas seems the cheapest and quickest way to solve the reverse motor problem so we'll see how she goes..................