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-   -   Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders? (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-scale-boating-103/1896327-any-amsterdam-her-sisters-builders.html)

antoli43 10-04-2004 05:23 PM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hello

Look same photos of my Amsterdam in the water.

LtDoc 10-07-2004 11:44 AM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
Antoli',
I am experimenting with different types of power systems, props, etc. I'm trying to compensate for the speed controler's voltage limitations (under 9 volts). The motor is designed to run on 12 volts and I'm now using 6 volts. Another way to compensate for the reduced voltage is by increasing the size or pitch of the prop (which I'm too lazy to do). The 'Kort' nozzle I'm using is not designed correctly, but only a 'shroud' or ring around the prop. A 'Kort' nozzle requires fairly close tolerances which I'm not familiar with, the clearance between the tip of the prop blades and ring. The 'ring' makes use of the water tubulance off the tips of the prop blades, redirects it so that it becomes useful, sort of (very poor explanation, sorry).
- 'Doc

PS - Your english is ~much~ better than my Portugese (non existant!) LOL. Don't worry about it.

Foggy Bottom 10-07-2004 01:02 PM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
Anitoli:
BEAUTIFUL!!!
She's just georgeous!
As to the Propellor-to- rudder distance your kit seems to be different (Yours is earlier/later than mine?) but It looks MUCH closer than mine would have been.
Lt DOC:
I just spent a week trying to find out if ANSTERDAM originaly had a steerablenozzle (no luck, she did have a nozzle but I can't find any details on it)
Try "Kort Nozzle" On google! You'll find out more than you want to know.

Foggy Bottom
----- "Santa Dave" , (the other me. is FULLY booked for the 2004 season! This supports my boat building!)

antoli43 10-10-2004 06:57 AM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
Foggy Bottom

Thanks for your advice, now I know what's a "Kort Nozzle" .
My Amsterdam don't turn very well, only with the motor working.
A frind tell me that is normal.
I'm not a expert in boats.
I like to make scales of everything an control then.

LMProd 10-13-2004 12:02 PM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
Your great looking AMSTERDAM inpsired me to take mine out of the box and start building.

I am new at building ships. I have build a lot of RC planes.

What kind of Paint do you recommend for the Hull. Would water based acrylics work or Latex ????

Thanks,
Gary

LtDoc 10-13-2004 01:23 PM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
Gary,
Either should work (not sure about the latex, though). Not that it's the 'best' stuff to use, but I've always used enamel paint. Just used to it, mainly, and not too eager to learn something new (as in lazy).
Best advice about the wood is to really do a good sanding job of it, then seal it, if you want a 'slick' finish. Also, forget about mounting the handrails till you're done! They are ~very~ easily broken.
Have fun with the building...
- 'Doc

antoli43 10-16-2004 06:41 AM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
Hello Gary

I used acrylics painting.
For the wood I use lacquer, and a good sanding .
If you have some problems aske me and I will try to help you.
I make some photos during the construction and I can show them.
Good job.

Antonio

antoli43 10-17-2004 08:03 AM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Me and my friends in the wather.

MAL X 11-03-2004 10:31 AM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
hi i'm new here.
great model of Amsterdam, i had her years ago and i think i'll build another, i notice a big difference in the superstructure between her sisters and the original Amsterdam...i expect if Amsterdam was around today and still a commercial tugboat she would've been updated too.

ie modern cranes on her side, with inflatables..the upgrades are easy to see, but there's a major gaff in the model at her stern, if you see the photo of her now....she's about 7ft higher between that engine cover/ huge stern hatch (whatever it is) and the deck of the superstructure that overhangs it at the stern.........i'm guessing and it looks like that engine cover is way to tall.

Amsterdam was the most attractive tug boat i ever had, and looked fantastic on the water....but had poor steering and very poor going in reverse, mine had 70mm fixed kortz.......i guess the poor steering doesn't really matter because she looked so good.

i've seen an amsterdam with the decking on her superstructure planked....and she looks even better... i might do the modifications and strike for a balance between then and now, but i worry that these mods might spoil her beautiful shape........i'll paint the funnels a mid blue, plank the upper decks and fit new inflatable lifeboats....because she definitely wouldn't have those old rowing boat type lifeboats today..

MAL X 11-03-2004 01:00 PM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
if you kook at Amsterdam's hull shape compared to other tugboats, she's relatively fine forward, and at a steep angle....especially if you look at modern harbour tugs....in U.S.A a classic example would be mr Darby, here in the u.k.........Typhoon, yorsksireman, smit rotterdam.........i could never get Amsterdam to steer well, its more like she would rock from side to side, but modern tugboats tend to have lower superstructures and mainly styrene.........so perhaps Amsterdam's ``C OF G``, was slightly too high.

i remeber entering her into a steeering regatta :D:D.....she hit every obstacle there was, it was so funny...she definitely needs a bow thruster and maybe improved rudders..twin rudders

all of this means little because she looked so good..

LtDoc 11-04-2004 08:34 AM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
MAL X,
You're right, the steering of the Amsterdam isn't very good with the stock rudder. I've been playing with the idea of using a 'Becker' rudder to compensate for being too cheap to put in a bowthruster. That's one of those 'someday' things, when I get around to it, sort of. My home-made Kort nozzle isn't exactly worthless, but certainly not much 'help' either (If I knew what I was doing it would probably work much better LOL).
For being a 'simple' model, the Amsterdam is a very nice boat for modifying! Gobs of room for 'extra' stuff, and there's not really a lot you can do to hurt it. 'Hindsight' is a 'curse'. There are several things I wish I had done differently but didn't think of until it was too late. You can't spend too much time finishing the wooden structures! 'Art.Lat.'s wood isn't exactly the 'best' in the world to start with, so finishing the wood is a 'must' (also not the worst I've ever seen!). As with any model, attention to the 'little things' is what makes it look good/bad.
The Amsterdam 'rolls' a lot because it's fairly top heavy. About the only thing you can do is get the weight (CG) as low as possible. (Try going from reverse to forward quickly. You can set up a rolling motion that will make you seasick just watching it LOL!)
- 'Doc

PS - Except those @#$% railings! Absolute, total 'kludge'!

MAL X 11-04-2004 11:40 AM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
hi Doc
yes for all her faults she's still one of the best looking tugboats in the world, i'll definitely remake her........kortz nozzle will make no difference just improve her power.......in fact, kortz will make her worst ha ha........too twitchy......the fault is a top heavy superstructure
and not bulky enough below W/L.

YES the wood is bloody awfall isn't it.......real rough stuff..........but very strong, it took me ages to get superstructure glass smooth, oh god i must've painted it AND rubbed it down about 8 times [:@][:@]

i think the original ship was rotating kortz anyway, but your best bet is fixed kortz 60 or 70 mm, mine was 70 and mega powerful too.

i built mine as per the kit/colours etc...........but i'll customize my next one slightly...dump those crappy fittings and go for Robbe quality fittings, plus dump those wooden lifeboats and fit modern inflatables............have you got that white metal inflatable lifeboat on the stern superstructure ha ha, that looks so awfall, so unrealistic..........with these high quality mods she'll look beautiful and worth it too.....

I also dumped those railings and fitted brass...with fishing wire.........nylon fishing wire if the thickness is correct looks great and doesn't distort if you knock it..its springy like guitar wire

Amsterdam was my first model boat, and you learn from your mistakes; but these mistakes i couldn't correct..so i sold her....because those wooden frames inside her hull were also a disaster..............i cant wait to remake her

cheap model too, especially here in the U.K

MAL

Foggy Bottom 11-07-2004 03:25 PM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Mal-x, Neat Idea using fishing wire!
Right now I am building a jig to cut those toe rails that go just under the bridge(I want it like the pictures and NOT like on the box)
As this is "Santa Dave's" busy season (it Pays for boats & radios & such) there won't be a lot done till after Christmas
By the way I think a kort nozzle will improve steering as it ensures the strikes the rudder. my tub is too short for turning but it seem quite shap with the thruster off. I'm looking forward to seeing what it can do with the thruster on (but I'll Have to wait, won't I?)

MERRY CHRISTMAS! (HAPPY CHRISTMAS to you across the pond)
This is what i looklike when I'm my other self
You don't want to see foggy Bottom

MAL X 11-07-2004 06:25 PM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
hi Foggy Bottom
happy christmas to you too.......i want to purchase my first model before xmas....i'll build the Yorkshireman tug from Model Slipway then afterwards tackle Amsterdam again...which will be in the spring or summer.

i'll use Robbe fittings and junk the ones in the Amsterdam kit..because the quality isn't good, fishing wire is great but i think i'll use a thicker nylon wire than last time, so it resembles a solid hand rail rather than steel wire. Amsterdam will require additional super detailing to make her look more lifelike, if you compare her to other scale model boats; she looks worryingly short of detail.

she's the best looking tugboat so it'll be worth it.

i'm not too bothered about the poor steering, because it didn't really bother me last time i had her.........just dont enter her into a steering regatta or you'll get seriously laughed at ha ha.

yes she definitely needs the kortz nozzle...loads of room, i had 70mm prop

Malcolm

Foggy Bottom 11-07-2004 06:38 PM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
Mal,
Did you see AMSTERDAMSsister ships? there are lot of photos and scads of detail. If you want to use more the ones the french navy uses have carried equipment for oil spill control and and of course they use them for dive platforms so chambers, big compressors, all sorts of stuff can go aboard!
I have uploaded all sorts of pictures.
About the new tugs Down here in San Diego theuy are almost square darn near as wide as the are long an small with lots of hp & therefore bollard pull.
Foggy Bottom

MAL X 11-08-2004 08:16 AM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
yes i downloaded them all 3 weeks ago..........thanks.....i dont miss a trick!

its interesting to note the new lifeboat arrangement...modern inflatables on extended decks..........but i'd be very careful about changing Amsterdam's superstructure to reflect this.........could quite easily spoil her good looks

inflatables on the existing Davits? they'd stick out too far, the original lifeboats are only about half the width..whatever the case, a modern Amsterdam would definitely have inflatables..........or maybe a modern boat similar in shape to the original, but with an outboard motor..

the clue being an outboard motor almost definitely....nobody rows nowadays.

yes Amsterdam doesn't have a tugboat shape below the waterline......or even a merchantman shape.......i'd expect to see one of those tanker style bows..like the huge salvage tugs have....TYPHOON/ SMIT ROTTERDAM/ JOHN ROSS ETC.........but not at all, in fact Amsterdam's bow is raked way back..it looks nice but she ``rocks and rolls`` better than Elvis the pelvis :D:D:D:D

i'm going to plank the decking on the superstucture though, but leave the main deck as is...........i've seen her planked, she looks fantastic..
miles miles nicer........like a luxuary yacht.........a millionaire's gin palace :D
Mal

Foggy Bottom 11-10-2004 12:09 PM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
Upon thinking About it , The reason for her "fine" hull is that she is, after all a SALVAGE tug not a harbor tug, so manuverability is not a major issue.
But if you look at the picture and see the armor covers on all the portholes & window lights you can guess she's a miserable, wet, boat in any real sea!

MAL X 11-10-2004 03:04 PM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
yes that's a great point, doesn't need good steering.........she looks awfall now doesn't she....grey paint all over.....even the largest tugs are swamped in rough seas, because none of them are big in comparison to merchant ships, its a tough life on a salvage tug....the largest ones are only 300 ft long.........JOHN ROSS, lloydsman, ZWART ZEE etc

Amsterdam is only average size so she'd be a wet boat, she is on the pond too; especially that low stern............in fact amsterdam was wrecked in a storm so that proves everything...........wrecked, run aground and sold for scrap...........a sad end to a beautiful lady:(:(

but of course a very popular model, loads of different amsterdam versions on the web.....because she looks so elegant.

Foggy Bottom 11-11-2004 04:42 PM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
But the wreck was towing accident. A bight in the to line fouled the screw and distroyed the reduction gears, the most expensve part . So they pushed her ashore and sold her for scrap. I'd sure like to see some pictures of her. All I have is her sisters. (am building RMS Malabar)

MAL X 11-11-2004 06:40 PM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
i stand corrected Foggy :D:D

i haven't seen any pictures of her either, i think the kit is probably accurate except for the fittings....doesn't really matter does it, except when you need to super-detail her.....all Amsterdam models on the web look different anyway..........

Amsterdam lacks deck vents, piping etc and i expect that's the inaccuracy.........you know those square panels on the rear face of her funnels, those open up in real life and are propably vents and i'm guessing her tow hook is wrong too.....in addition her bullwarks lack vertical bracing especially at her bow....on mine i used spare deck vents from the Yorkshireman tug boat. also, her davits need superdetailing.

but i do have to say without these additions she does look unrealistic....too stark, mine also had rope all over her decks, oil drums and car tyres on her hull side.......shame i sold her.

never mind, i'll get her right next time......i'll plank her superstructure deck and a brighter shade of red.....add new lifeboats with outboards

nutman 11-16-2004 12:46 AM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 

nutman 11-16-2004 12:56 AM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
Hi,just about coming to the end of building my Amsterdam tug,been nearly a year off & on with it.
I put a bow thruster in mine,one of the first things I did.How much lead should there be,I've got 2 -12v battery's
total 3kg,any idea,Cheers RP.

LtDoc 11-16-2004 09:42 AM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
RP,
The 'best' way to determine the amount of ballast is to get more than you think you'll need, then try it in the 'test tank' (bath). It depends on how you built the thing, some will take more than others. I think I used about 7 - 10 pounds of lead (very rough guess!), a couple of 6 volt bats, plus all the usual 'stuff' (motor, servo, etc.). If my conversion is 'close', 3kg should get you close. It's always easier to ~add~ weight than to remove it...
- 'Doc

MAL X 11-16-2004 11:08 AM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
my Amsterdam weighed about 22lbs.......i cant remember exactly how much lead, but quite a lot more than 10lbs; whatever it takes to bring her down to her waterline

donguz 11-17-2004 03:10 PM

RE: Any AMSTERDAM (Or her sisters) Builders?
 
Hi all!
I'm new in R/C and Latina Amsterdam is my first R/C model. Before this I was making just static models.
Could please recomend me motor, battery, servo, reciver and speed governor ?

Thank you in advance for help.


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