cullers

Okay, I have no idea what I am getting into, but here goes:
I'm thinking of building an rc sub-cam; a submersible, radio controlled camera basically. It will probably be small (like 1 foot at the max.). It will either:
a) Have two or three motors to power it, a dive/surface motor, a steering motor, and a forward/reverse (or a forward/reverse and a rudder).
OR
b) It will have two propellered motors to power it forward/reverse, and left/right, and a rudder that dives the sub and surfaces it, powered by the two other motors.
OR
c) Two propellared motors (that do the above minus the rudder) and a static dive system which uses a third motor and a piston/screw shaft to dive and surface the sub (simple and homemade).

I've thought about using rc car chips to be the "command system" of the sub. but don't think it will work, so there is a cheap plane (the Silverlit X-twin Pro) which may be able to be modified to power the sub. I'm not sure it will work as I literally just started getting intrested in rc things, so any help/opinions/advice would be welcome!

Cullers


I've also thought of building it as an ROV, but don't have a clue how (any help?)

GreenAce92

Well heres what you could do make a waterproof box with your cam, then put two motors(with differential thrust for steering no rudder required) then have a center motor like a hole in the middle of your box(but its still waterproof) so that you can dive. You would need at least a 3ch radio system, and somehow have a differential thrust steering. Or you could have 1 main motor with a rudder, and 1 dive motor or a syringe hooked up to a worm gear. Hey man i like your imagination keep at it. Another thing you could do is make an ROV which has a chord hooked up to it, so you dont need a wireless remote system, but you would have to be able to reverse motors somehow, like an SPDT Switch or somethign like that.

cullers

Thank you GreenAce92. That's sort of how a wally-world sub works right? The waterproof hole in the middle for dive/suracing?
I researched ROV's recently...
I was thinking of using an RC sytem to control the sub, but the only problem is I'm wanting to use it in the sea, and sea water scrambles the signal and stuff. My dad and I are going somewhere that has sunken WWII stuff that I want to explore with a controllable cam. So, I think I'm just going to build an ROV, as cool and cheap as I can. My family lives overseas so I don't know what kinds of things are available.
I'm thinking of building it with four propellered motors, and another motor which powers a robotic arm with a claw on the end.
I'm thinking of using a screw shaft to push the arm out and pull it back in. The arm will be attached to a nut type thing which will advance down the shaft when the motor begins to operate. The motor's needle-thing (the metal thing that propellers are attached too) will be attached to a rubber or plastic disc which is attached by rigid wires to the nut, so when the rubber disc spins with the motor, the nut spins down the screw shaft. The entire system will be encased in vinyl tubing to protect from water, and the arm will be attached to the outer end of the tube. I may have to post some kind of picture or diagram because this probably doesn't make much sense!
If this seems interesting please let me know, and I'll post more, and maybe picts!

GreenAce92

Wow quite an immagination. Well why do you say you need 4, i could see 2 for diving and 2 for steering, you could have two motors which would be making you dive but could let you bank also. You see the thing is is that, that stuff you want to explore would probably be pretty deep i mean 20ft if your lucky but still, you would need a really good like 6ch radio which will cost 100 and some dollars plus the servos, motors, waterproof stuff.... and the cam too your planning on using these live wireless 2.4ghz cameras right? I dont see that being very cheap. YOu could make it easier and make it have 2 motors which are hooked up to two servos, so that you can have them pointed downwards for diving and then for steering have 1 turn on while the other is off or have one faster than the other.

Could you post a pic, sketch or somethign of your claw design i kinda see your idea, im interested to help out i just gotta see it more. The arm would be cool, but i would think it would be too weak to carry anything ww2ish, but then again you could find a tiny AA shell or somethign as a soveigneir lol.

MajorTomski

It can aslo be bought off the shelf


http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXRYK1&P=7

HTH

GreenAce92

Wow 600bucks....

cullers

Thanks guys!
I was thinking of building an ROV, which would eliminate the depth problem (except for pressure), using wires hooked from each motor up to a dry cell and commanded by simple three position, six prong switches (one for each motor). Two motors would be for forward/reverse/left/right with a added turn bonus: when one switch is pushed up, and the other down, the ROV would spin around for a fast and tight turn (kind of like the way a tank works). The third motor would be located on the rear of the vehicle, and would allow it to tilt up or down, so the camera could view things below or above, and the arm could pick up something without having to settle on the bottom (the arm isn't going to be used to pick up anything big, just something small and interesting- like a souvenier!). The last motor is for diving and surfacing the craft, giving it a balanced rise and sink (the ROV will have floats and weights). When both motors work together, the ROV will surface/dive faster. As for the camera...I'm going to try to get maybe a second-hand cam-corder or something that uses a wire, because I think the image is better on those, especially at lower depths. Failing this, I'll try to use the family cam-corder (I hope)!
Here's a diagram of the arm (I only have microsoft paint, so it's going to be really simple):

cullers

Okay, so I hope this isn't too small. I have three ideas for powering the opening/closig of the claw.
a) find something that does that motion and modify it.
b) use a polarized magnet (copper wire around magnet, electricity polarizes it, making the claws open or close).
c) use a small motor to push it out and open the claw, or pull it in and close the claw.
Okay so There are four ideas; when the claw is extended to its max., the claw is open, and as it is pulled back in using the below action, the claw closes. Personally, I like the magnet idea, because I don't think the other ways make a powerful enough grip.
The body of the ROV I'm still planning!

GreenAce92

I like your designs so far, sounds to be very feasable. Keep at it!

hammondcrazy

Hey I just saw that Neptune sub. IS that available to purchase right now??? I will buy it now! That is what I want to build!!!! If it is even 600 bucks it would be cheaper than for me to build. THanks Mike.

GreenAce92

Well if it says its in stock then i guess so, wow quite a spender.

Captain Nemo12

Well, Tower Hobbies says it's On Order, I guess we'll have to wait a little longer. Considering it's RTR, I'd say $600 is not bad!

cullers

It looks cool, and seems to be pretty good, but the reason I'm just building something is because I don't have a lot of money!

hammondcrazy

Hello I looked on Mike's Sub Works, If you purchase his pressure hull,,,,You can have it all complete for like 299.00 Sans the radio gear. But it includes the hull water proof penetrations and the motor gearbox and prop. His prices to me for RC sub equipment can't be beat!!! If you graduate to spending 500.00 you can get yourd feet wet with the Albacore. I would be very honored to own that sub. The thunder tiger looks more "toyish" and complicated but it looks well built from the pictures. Mike's is where it is at for me. If you decide to roll your own sub, Those pressure hulls Mike's has I think will simplify your project. I am going that route atleast for my first attempt. I really want to dive and do it fast!!! then once I have a working sub then I can relax take my time an do it right because if I want to dive to the point of tasting it,,, IT would be more prudent to have something to dive so you don't rush things along to get your own project in the water. my opinion anyway, Mike. (I am Mike Thomas, not the owner of Mike's subworks)

cullers

(we live oversees, so I can't get a job, unless it's teaching english...) But I'm not building a sub, I'm building an ROV! According to what stuff I'm using to build it, it can go up to 100 ft deep[:-]. It can be built cheap (within reason), and isn't complicated to operate; there's no ballast tanks and a bunch of waterproof sealing hassle (It itself is closed to water), and there's a camera on it so you can view cool things.

eventually I will probably get into real subs, but for now, I kind of have to keep it simple.

cyclops2

cullers.


A simple RC mixer that is used in Delta winged aircraft will give you smooth and complete control of F & R with L & R steering all at the same time. 2 done 1 to go.

1 way to dive & return to the surface everytime. Cheaply. The foward speed of the boat provides all the diving power. LOCKED foward and or rear diving planes in a dive position.

Cheap and absolutly reliable. That would still leave 1 channel for complete & independant control of the camera.

How are we doing so far?

GreenAce92

I think what cullers could do is hook up all of his motors to his own hand made controller which have reversing on them, there are these switches(SPDT's) that reverse motors( i was into robots a while ago) if he had that he could make his own tx with infinite number of channels(well functions). And then he could have a chord that ran as logn as he wanted and if it doenst come up he can just pull on the chord(assuming the chord is strong enough and the sub is free of obstructions.

cullers

Hey cyclops2, you have any websites for that? I might want to check that out.

As of now, I am basically hooking up wires to the controller (thinking of a joystick or a game pad controller), but am going to attach a hacked up cam-corder view-finder for a screen. So far, here's what I have, cheap, yet I think it will work:

cullers

(again this is as of right now)
I have a couple of working motors from other things that I can use. I am going to add floats and weights (not shown) to give it a slight positive buoyancy, and may add dive planes if neccesary to kind of keep it down when going forward.

The camera and manipulator arm will be connected together. One motor will raise and lower the camera and arm together using a screw shaft and gears. I got the idea off this website called homebuiltrovs.com.

cyclops2

I will do some homework on this "Vectored thrust " drive setup. How many other things do you want control of ? Need to know so I can pick the right stuff the first time.

cyclops2

Hold everything.

I just remembered you are talking about a 1' submarine type of boat. I do not think there is any reasonable way 2 propellors so close together can develope any type of vectored thrust at our prop speeds. Your circle diameter could be outrageous.

I also was thinking of RC ..radio wave control of the sub.

Have to remember this is a remote WIRE controlled ship.

2 ...24" pieces of white 4" to 6" PVC pipe would be great for 2 tubes spaced apart. They would be leakproof, cheap, strong as heck, easy to put gear into either one. the connector bars between them could have 1 movable for independant amount of up & down.

1 important thing about ROV on a cable is they loose control if the cable is not almost always kept directly over the ROV. As it moves away the cable start to pull it more & more off of balance.
If you put ALL the batteries in the ROV, you could get away with using what are known as " servo testors". These simple things send the commands to servos & speed controllers along thin wires.

This would give you 2 dials to turn for speed & turning. Yes, This could put us back into using the props for F & R and L & R. Looking very good.
If we pick the right type of plastic wire insulation it MAY ALMOST balance out the wire weight.

We can use the cheap & smaller BRUSH type of motors and controllers in this application.

I think you can easily pull this off.

Big question. What do you want, in dollars, to spend ?

cullers

Yah, after thinking about the circle diameter, I thought it might be better to adjust the angle on the thrust motors. like an upside down V.
servo testers? how do they work? You say dials to control it? I was thinking of an 8 way joystick or something, but dials might be just as good.. Which motors in particular? How exactly do brush motors differ than... non-brush ones?

I can't find white PVC pipe here, just the gray kind. Is that kind okay?
As for money... I would really like to spend less than 100, but the problem would be getting a worth-it quality camera and screen; maybe hack up an old cam-corder, or get some stuff second-hand...?

cyclops2

I am going to be busy for a few days. I will try and do a full blown drawing & parts list.

Grey PVC is perfect also.
It has stock end caps & some of it can be / comes threaded. Makes building & repairs a piece of cake.

A trip to a Plumbing place will help you with availability of 24" threaded pieces. Post back. I will start digging around on the threaded Grey PVC also.

What is the PSI of water 100' down ?

CrunchyFrog

For 100 feet, water pressure is 3 atmospheres (45 psi). But if your watertight enclosures are vacuum-sealed, then total pressure differential (inside/outside) might be up to 4 atm (60 psi).

One consideration, though, is that the PVC specs you read are internal pressure ratings. I would think the pipe would have a bit higher resistance to external pressure, but that's just a guess.

cullers

Crunchyfrog, thanks for the psi info.

cyclops2, that's great, thanks. I still have to locate a plumbing store, and I also want to get info on the camera/screen.

Does anyone know a good camera that works at 100 feet?