Capt.Canuck

So, last night I took my first small steps forward and installed the metal wheels and metal tracks on my HL Panther G.

Not being the handiest of individuals, I was rather pleased with myself when it was all done and I hadn't broken anything.

My enthusiasm was a bit short-lived however when I discovered, what I'm sure many of you have, that the standard HL Panther G suspension sags considerably under the weight of the metal tracks. The tank itself now bounces and rolls around under the weight, even when driving on a flat surface.

I mistakenly assumed that when I bought the upgraded kit with metal parts, that they would be essentially plug and play - and the existing suspension would be a good fit for the overall kit.

In any case, where do I go from here? Given my limited experience with such things, I'd prefer to avoid drilling and clocking the existing springs.

Are there some heavier upgraded springs that I can purchase that are well suited to the HL Panther G with metal tracks?

The tank rode great on the plastic tracks, so until I get a suitable suspension solution for the metal tracks, I'll be reinstalling the plastic ones.

TIAfor the advice.

Buckeye36

My Feedback: (3)

You can get stiffer springs from several retailers,here are a few examples:
http://www.rc-tank-world.com/1-16-H-...S-PRCSN-60.htm
http://supremerc.com/asiatam_upgrades.php
http://www.welshdragonmodels.co.uk/a...ther-591-p.asp
http://www.rctank.de/product_info.ph...roducts_id=805

Capt.Canuck

Thanks for the links.

Is there one in particular you would recommend?

As well, are upgraded metal swing arms a useful addition or are the original plastic ones functionally just as good?

Buckeye36

My Feedback: (3)

Welsh Dragon is always good and real quick shipping from thr UK, but it appears he is out of stock.
You could contact Phil at RCTankWars, I'm sure he has them as well as RC Command.

Capt.Canuck

Thanks - I just sent Phil a note at RCTankWars inquiring about the springs and upgraded swing arms. Might as well do them both while I'm in there.

YHR

Metal wheels and tracks should have no effect on the spring weight of your model. Only thing supported by the springs will effect this. The wheels and tracks are unsupported weight. Ie they make up the part that stays on the ground!!!!

tankmaster5001

YHR is right its like your car the weight of the tires and wheels or anything on them don't have any affect on your suspension system.

Although there might be a slight affect because of the way the tracks rest on the support bogies and the sprockets and idlers aren't "springed". But I don't think there shouldnt be enough to cause problems...

vano12

I ordered an Jagdpanther with metal upgrades and it arrived today. The only issue I have is the gap between the sprocket and the next supporting wheel - when it climbs obstacles the track just bends into a funny shape. I wish I could post a video of that to show what I mean, perhaps I didn't explain it very well. I wonder if your issue is similar or totally different? Btw I assume the Panther G and the Jagdpanther share a common wheelbase.

tankmaster5001

I am trying to picture what you are talking about...if it sounds like I think it does I had a similar problem with my KV-1 when I got it and it had metal upgrades...but that gap actually helped it climb better...does your problem hinder its preformance?...problem might be different...

vano12

Not really, it just looks funny/unnatural. My KV 1 doesn't exhibit that behavior but the sprocket on the KV is at the back, so maybe I'll test it in reverse mode, the track could be doing a similar shape.

Capt.Canuck

I'm new to this, but that analogy of to a car doesn't seem correct to me. I understand that that weight of wheels and tires wouldn't weigh on a car's suspension, but ~20% of the weight of the tracks are weighing on the drive and idler wheels (which are not suspension components).

As I see it, the net effect on the suspension is as if I added a comparable amount of weight to the hull of the tank.

In any case, there's no question that the suspension is not up to the task as is, whereas it was fine with the plastic tracks. Maybe I simply got a soft suspension which was borderline from the outset, and the small amount of additional weight pushed it past its limits.

tankmaster5001

Right which is why I edited it with the second paragraph...but I don't think the difference should be enough to suddenly change the suspension by as much as you described...I guess the springs could be very weak...

1sgt

Vano12,
Do you mean it kinda folds itself on the underside of the sproket? If that is the, real tanks do the same thing. You may need to install a idler adjuster to tighten your track a bit??

Jim

YHR

THis is true, The extra weight carried by the sprockets and idlers would effect the spring weight, so I was in error to say this would have no effect. When you mentioned metal wheels, I was thinking of the suspension bogie wheels, not the drive wheel and idler.

vano12

Thanks Jim, you explained it much better than my poor attempt. It does fold itself inward, is it true the real JP/Panther did the same? I have to dig up some WW2 footage. So what exactly is the best way to keep the tracks tight, tighten the spring on the first idle wheel after the sprocket?

1sgt

Vano 12,
First off, if your tracks are staying on , ie: not coming of the idler wheel and it runs smoothly, I would let it alone. The two ways of taking up track tension is to install an adjustable rear idler. This allows you to move the idler wheel a bit forward or backward which ever the case may need. The other way is to remove a link from the tacks themselves. A word of caution, you do not want the tracks to tight as this could damage your gearbox or blow your main board. My Jagdpanther does the same thing, however as I mentioned, real tracked vehicles do as well, so I'm happy. My tracks stay on it runs good and I think it is one of the coolest AFV out there.

Jim

snakestretcher52

You could try removing a tracklink to shorten the track and eliminate some sag.

On edit; I should have read the above before posting! Apologies.

karel47

yes the real ones had that also i geuss its torsionbar isseu german tracks were very loose

vano12

Thank you and the others for the feedback. No, it doesn't come off at all, and especially after I saw a video of a real JP doing the same I am more than happy to leave as is.

1sgt

Vano12,
Good idea, like they say, if it's not broke, don't try and fix it. If your running metal tracks like I am, sooner or later we will both need to either get adjustable idlers or take a link out as I have hear the metal tracks tend to stretch quit a bit with usage.
When the time comes, I'll opt for the adjustable idler.

Jim

vano12

I think shortening the track would be easier for me, I have no idea how to install an idler as I am new to this. Maybe I will learn by then.

1sgt

Vano12,
Well, I have had my Jagdpanther for about a year and a half, so I think I'm a bit closer to putting the the adjustable idler then you are so, I'll let you know how it goes.

Pah co chu puk

I put adjustable idler mounts on my jagd and so far it has not thrown a track.  They only took about 3 hours to install even with the instructions in German!
  I have metal tracks and have clocked the springs and she rides great.  I only clocked the first and last two on each side to the 8:00 position, the middle ones I left stock.

Capt.Canuck

Other than the cost savings, is there any reason that you chose to clock the springs as opposed to just purchasing the upgraded/heavier springs? Is the net effect the same?

Pah co chu puk

Cost and time savings. 

It was late one night and I thought, how hard can it be?  It took a couple of hours of relaxed tinkiring.  To order new springs would take two weeks and cost money, this was free.  I do plan to upgrade to metal wheeles, swingarms and stronger springs someday, perhaps when I upgrade to 3:1 gears.