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Tamiya or HL??

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Old 11-17-2010, 11:25 AM
  #51
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

My 2 cents.Both directions offer equal fun.My preference is to build Tamiya kits. I like the build process just as much as the driving or fighting aspect.

Bob brings up some very good points, plus there is a vast world wide collector market for Tamiya, hence a built Tamiya rc tank, in good shape, has a pretty good resale value and even the derelicts fetch some money.

The Tamiya kits are fun to build; require just basic modeling skill, simple to rc setup; and run good without a lot of hassle.

But no matter which Tamiyanewkit you decide to get, your going to spend between 800 to 1000 dollars on yourstockproject if you need to buy a radio system, battle unit, tank battery and a battery charger(way more if you add upgrade parts).

So, spending the money without it being a problem is always the problem for the majority of the people who like building and running the Tamiya tank kits.

If your testing the rc tank waters; wisely on a budget; may or may not like driving it around and repairing it; and do not want to dump a bunch of your hard earned money into a toy:get a HL Panther, Jagdpanther, KV-1 or Pz3/4 or the Mato Sherman: then enjoy it; modify it; paint it and weather it; repair it some more; and or just bash it in the yard as is.










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Old 11-17-2010, 01:42 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

If you where to battle the tank, what is the rock bottom $$ required to get it ready? Say rock bottom on both a HL and Tamiya.
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:01 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

Here is just one approach to your question, if you want either a new Tamiya or HL model.

These are the vendors that I like, amongst several other good companies.

You can also search for that rare deal and purchase new or used on ebay or at various forums.

For Tamiya, rock bottom prices will probably mean building a stock, out of the box Sherman 105mm full option – sound kit.

• The very good news – the Sherman kit makes for a good performing rc model.

• Check out the following places and ask for any discounts and do your comparison math to find the best deals.

• HL tanks; visit here for Tamiya Compatible DIY HL battle unit tanks & the parts you need or for HL custom built RTR battle unit tanks: http://www.rctankwars.com/FAQ.asp

• To get good prices on Tamiya tank kits in the USA;visit and checkout current kit prices with Karen at: http://www.aaftankmuseum.com/RC%20Tank%20Kits.htm

• And contact Dave to compare current Tamiya kit prices at: dave4what@comcast.net

• I like the inexpensive & basic Futaba 2.4 radio found here, but there are several other good choices:http://www3.omnimodels.com/cgi-bin/woi0001p?&I=FUTK4200&P=0

• Contact Patrick for the Tamiya Battle Unit: http://stores.ebay.com/Hobby-Summit/...=p4634.c0.m322

• Tank batteries and battery chargers can be found at your local rc hobby shop or on ebay. Buy safe and a good quality products.

• For Tamiya upgrade parts I like these vendors:

http://www.etoarmour.com/

http://www.mitosal.com/catalogue.htm

http://www.axels-modellbau-shop.de/katalog/

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Old 11-17-2010, 07:15 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

Quote:
ORIGINAL: cherokee_140

If you where to battle the tank, what is the rock bottom $$ required to get it ready? Say rock bottom on both a HL and Tamiya.

HL route with DBC is about $220.
$130 Tank has radio and battery
$90 for DBC


Tamiya $715

$500
Radio $100
IR apple $75
Tank Battery $30

Also up grade on a Tamiya's are not free. Daryll Turner this and Impact that, aren't free and shouldn't be ignored. The number I quickly through together above are for bare bones IR ready Tanks. If you just want to battle in the HL world you don't even need the DBC. The DBC just allows you to play with Tamiya. If you have no interest in that you can leave that cost out. This little fact should not be ignored when discussing getting your feet wet with IR battling. Two stock HL IR tanks can be battling in someones backyard $130/tank This is a hobby in it's infancy. There is no reason HL only clubs might just start forming as the fact is you can have an IR battling tank for $140 all in, if you don't car about being Tamiya compatible.

The fact you need two to tango should be factored into this.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:20 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??


My comment didn't go through, very odd.

My experience has been the psychology of HL is to suck one into buying several "bargain" tanks which become "money pits" as one becomes more demanding of function, detail and refinement. Thus my opinion that buying a $575 Tamiya and kitting it out for a final cost of ~$1000 is money better spent than getting five HL's in my case and then kitting each one out with several hundred extra dollars (3:1's, upgraded suspension, tracks, DBU/DBC, ElMod or other sound, maybe an asiatam hull,better speaker,etc. etc.)

BTW the level of fit and detail on my VS Tank 1/24 scale Tiger is far beyond the HL standard, the turret is the correct shape, the molded details are crisp, clean and sharp. Really excellent value for the money.
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:02 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

Tamiya Sherman at $715, but you did not include a good tank battery charger, modeling materials, paint and related shipping cost or local & state retail tax.

Closer to or just past $800.00 if your just starting out with a
Tamiya Sherman and no modeling materials or rc experience.

And the beginner Tamiya Sherman does not need Daryl Turner, Impact or ETO parts to enjoy and run good.

Let us know what you decide to do?
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:10 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

may I ask where the 800 dollars for a Sherman is coming from? The tank museum has them for 475 and a radio from hobby people will run about 60 bucks with receievr and then a battery pack...say 35 bucks for a descent one. Not near 800 bucks and that with a 2.4 radio. Paints aren't that much money...after all, it's a small tank.
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:34 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

Quote:
ORIGINAL: yellowshaker

may I ask where the 800 dollars for a Sherman is coming from? The tank museum has them for 475 and a radio from hobby people will run about 60 bucks with receievr and then a battery pack...say 35 bucks for a descent one. Not near 800 bucks and that with a 2.4 radio. Paints aren't that much money...after all, it's a small tank.

$220 vs $650-800, dependng on tank

$260* vs $1300-1600 if you just want to buy a couple of IR tanks to kick around in the back yard.(* don't need to worry about DBC if you just want to go with HL IR)

Again getting a Heng Long to Tamiya standards equals the cash outlay, but no one says you need to do that right away, and for someone just wanting to try this out, the Heng long route is a very attractive option.
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:37 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

Ohh, agreed Dan. No need to spend if you are not sure about the hobby. HL is a great intro to the hobby.
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:41 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

Tamiya are great tanks, but I shy away from telling a newbie to run out and spend all that money without knowing what he really wants, If nothing else a Heng Long will introduce him inexpensively to the hobby, and if he feels he wants more he can then buy a Tamiya once he figures out what he really likes about RC tanking
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:33 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

Do the complete math yellowshaker and add up all the items you need to build the Tamiya Sherman kit past the purchase price of the Tamiya kit.

Why? A new guy entering the Tamiya Kit or HL rebuild hobby arena, will need the kit or RTR toy tank; battle unit system, hobby grade rc radio system, tank battery, tank battery charger,build material such asglues, paints, paint brushes, air brush setup, weathering supplies, tape, sand paper etc etc...and that all adds up and should be factored into your build budget, unless your a crook working for a Wall Street Bank.

From 6 years of experience, I know what it costs to build a new basic level Tamiya kit, new Tamiya intermediate built kit and a new Tamiya advanced kit.

Do consider yellowshaker, just because you leave stuff off the build list and do not tally it up, well, that doesn't make the build any cheaper and seems stupid to do that.

YHR is as YHR as ever.






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Old 11-18-2010, 08:59 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

Thanks this is the kind of info that I am looking for. For me I wanted a tank that I could model, but would also like to try the battle side. There are a great many guys into RC in the area, 3 very nice flying fields that are heli friendly within 1hr of my door, one of the best out door dirt tracks in the nation 15min from my house, a great indoor carpet/indoor off road place 30min away. LOTS of RC in the area but no one that I know of is into tanks, or tank battles.

In trying to float an idea past it is a pretty easy pill to swallow at $220 (about the price of a ESC and motor) vs. $500-$1000 on something that just might not take. Add to that most people in the surface RC world only have 2-3channel radios, for tanks I am thinking you are going to need a suface 4ch radio, (and please for the love of doG don't use your old FM air radio some of us still fly FM) I would think that one would have to have a stick radio to run a tank, I think it would be very difficult with a "car style" radio.

I would love to see tanks catch on here, but at north of $500 easy is a hard sell when people already have short course trucks, buggies, 1/8 buggies, trucks, gas cars, and some people have all that and are now into 1/5 buggies, not to even start talking about sprint cars, carpet cars...crap I have all this stuff as well a one heli and a room full of fixed wing, (I) did not want another big expensive RC and I know my wife would not be too keen on it. All of that stuff is expensive, but racing is very well setup here, tanks are not, and to drop a grand on something that might or might not take off is pretty hard for people to do.


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Old 11-18-2010, 10:34 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

The radio ,batteries and receivers I already have so no cost there .I have a 9 chanel 2.4 and an 8 chanel ground radio, so for me that cost is eliminated batteries are not a problem either you can usually make a good pack cheaper than you can buy one. I realize some of you are talking about someone who may be starting from scratch but not in my case . As in my other hobbies I usually make one that is my best of everything and then my one to beat around with.
I am still leaning to Tamiya but the HL is not out of the picture yet.

Ron
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:43 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

another thing to think of is how far of drive it is to a close battle area so I may do one of each . This way I can have a tank for a freind to use and have a little fun at home. gears are grinding more and more

Ron
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:44 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

I have 2 tamiyas and some heng long tanks and do battles in the NJ NEAD club.
here is my thoughts on the two if you are setting them up for IR battle

the heng long tanks i feel if you are wanting to do battle just buy a heng long tank put a DBU battle system in it and keep costs down and use it in battle and enjoy it like that...it will be fine for battle.

Now if you plan on getting a heng long and a type battle system other than the DBU that is much more expensive and then put all sorts of aftermarket parts into the heng long tanks...I would say pass on this by the time your done you will still have a less of a quality tank than a tamiya and it will cost just as much sometimes.


So i say go heng long the cheap way or go all out and get a tamiya.
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:50 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Imnotanace

another thing to think of is how far of drive it is to a close battle area so I may do one of each . This way I can have a tank for a freind to use and have a little fun at home. gears are grinding more and more

Ron
Don't sweat your decision too much. I am guessing either way you are going to have fun with it.
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Old 11-18-2010, 02:51 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??


Quote:
ORIGINAL: YHR


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Imnotanace

another thing to think of is how far of drive it is to a close battle area so I may do one of each . This way I can have a tank for a freind to use and have a little fun at home. gears are grinding more and more

Ron
Don't sweat your decsion too much. I am guessng either way you are going to have fun with it.
Yup, they are all toys they are made to play with and have fun with. Be they a Tank, Plane, heli, car.......pick you toy and go out and have fun, there are many different ways to have fun with the thing. Very few things I have seen in the RC hobby remain box stock for very long.
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Old 11-18-2010, 04:23 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??


Quote:
ORIGINAL: C4ISTAR

Here is just one approach to your question, if you want either a new Tamiya or HL model.

These are the vendors that I like, amongst several other good companies.

You can also search for that rare deal and purchase new or used on ebay or at various forums.

For Tamiya, rock bottom prices will probably mean building a stock, out of the box Sherman 105mm full option – sound kit.

• The very good news – the Sherman kit makes for a good performing rc model.

• Check out the following places and ask for any discounts and do your comparison math to find the best deals.

• HL tanks; visit here for Tamiya Compatible DIY HL battle unit tanks & the parts you need or for HL custom built RTR battle unit tanks: http://www.rctankwars.com/FAQ.asp

• To get good prices on Tamiya tank kits in the USA; visit and checkout current kit prices with Karen at: http://www.aaftankmuseum.com/RC%20Tank%20Kits.htm

• And contact Dave to compare current Tamiya kit prices at: dave4what@comcast.net

• I like the inexpensive & basic Futaba 2.4 radio found here, but there are several other good choices: http://www3.omnimodels.com/cgi-bin/woi0001p?&I=FUTK4200&P=0

• Contact Patrick for the Tamiya Battle Unit: http://stores.ebay.com/Hobby-Summit/...=p4634.c0.m322

• Tank batteries and battery chargers can be found at your local rc hobby shop or on ebay. Buy safe and a good quality products.

• For Tamiya upgrade parts I like these vendors:

http://www.etoarmour.com/

http://www.mitosal.com/catalogue.htm

http://www.axels-modellbau-shop.de/katalog/

What, no link for where to buy the AA's for the radio?
I think this is the most comprehensive listing of everything a newbie tanker needs by way of where to buy what. GREAT JOB! I've bookmarked it for myself, it is a great reference.... I only wish you had written this a few years earlier....maybe then my first tank would not have been a HL PanTiger! [sm=bananahead.gif]
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Old 11-18-2010, 07:36 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

This all boils down too What do you want to get OUT of the tank. Do you want to join a club? You will most likely want a Tamiya. Do you just want to have some fun and kick around in the back yard? Then an HL is more than worthy. You can spend a boat load of money on either brand and no one can dispute that. 
 What do you want to get out of it?
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:18 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

panther g
what Iwant to get out of it is a good quality all around tank that will last a long time , Maybe put a wireless vid cam , details,IR, laser ,smoke and so on.I have herd both sides and both have their good points. I am still leaning heavy to the Tamiya.

Ron
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:38 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

Well the "tower of Pisa" has been leaning many many many years,so how long are you going to lean.........

BIGMIG
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:45 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

not to much longer , I may fall here very soon.
Ron
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:30 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

I'd like to think a certain HL Tiger helped you to make that decision. Another Tamiya plus is the resale value. A used Tiger or Panther can fetch $500 if it's in good condition.
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Old 11-19-2010, 09:01 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

If you are new to tanks and are buying one because you would like to try it out then Iwould reccomend a Heng Long vehicle, one with smoke, sound, metal gears, sprockets and tracks. Luckily you are in the USso these can be had for not a lot of money. Matomart can sell you (as well as others) the complete package with the battle system fitted in some models.

I don't have any Tamiya RC tanks simply due to their cost, plenty of static models though. In the UK the cost is quite a bit higher than the US. My only grumble about my HL units is that during a 30 minute session per tank I can expect to spend 5 minutes or more on field repairs. The Tiger's metal drive sprokets split from the bolt backing off (easy fix with thread lock or a better spring washer but not painted yet so no fix) and the Panzer III throws a track pin (plastic tracks wear around the pins quite quickly, I have metal tracks to replace). Once I fix these the only other thing is the sound, especially on the Pnz III is a little basic. Tamiya sound is so much better it is almost sexual.

So in a nutshell the advice for a new tank commander would be as follows, work out what tank model you would like, Panther, Jagdpanther, Tiger etc. Buy a different model of the Heng Long range, Tamiya doesn't do a Pnz III or STuG III for example and both these HL tanks are very good. Use the HL tanks to get a feel for the hobby and to test if you have the time and enjoyment to carry on. If you do and want to move on, then consider about buying a Tamiya kit.

The OP hasn't really mentioned a budget or a cash flow problem so the cost is largely irrelevant.

Resale value per tank is about the same in the UK as a percentage depreciation, the exception to the rule is the Matorro King Tiger which sells for more than new price second hand. Most likely different for the USas it is a different market.

The Tamiya/HL argument is rather pointless, it's like comparing apples to oranges and at a market level the companies and products don't compete with each other.
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Old 11-19-2010, 10:37 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya or HL??

Quote:
ORIGINAL: STO_118

If you are new to tanks and are buying one because you would like to try it out then I would reccomend a Heng Long vehicle, one with smoke, sound, metal gears, sprockets and tracks. Luckily you are in the US so these can be had for not a lot of money. Matomart can sell you (as well as others) the complete package with the battle system fitted in some models.

I don't have any Tamiya RC tanks simply due to their cost, plenty of static models though. In the UK the cost is quite a bit higher than the US. My only grumble about my HL units is that during a 30 minute session per tank I can expect to spend 5 minutes or more on field repairs. The Tiger's metal drive sprokets split from the bolt backing off (easy fix with thread lock or a better spring washer but not painted yet so no fix) and the Panzer III throws a track pin (plastic tracks wear around the pins quite quickly, I have metal tracks to replace). Once I fix these the only other thing is the sound, especially on the Pnz III is a little basic. Tamiya sound is so much better it is almost sexual.

So in a nutshell the advice for a new tank commander would be as follows, work out what tank model you would like, Panther, Jagdpanther, Tiger etc. Buy a different model of the Heng Long range, Tamiya doesn't do a Pnz III or STuG III for example and both these HL tanks are very good. Use the HL tanks to get a feel for the hobby and to test if you have the time and enjoyment to carry on. If you do and want to move on, then consider about buying a Tamiya kit.

The OP hasn't really mentioned a budget or a cash flow problem so the cost is largely irrelevant.

Resale value per tank is about the same in the UK as a percentage depreciation, the exception to the rule is the Matorro King Tiger which sells for more than new price second hand. Most likely different for the US as it is a different market.

The Tamiya/HL argument is rather pointless, it's like comparing apples to oranges and at a market level the companies and products don't compete with each other.

Great advice and a very good perspective. You were the first one to pick up on the fact HL makes some tanks Tamiya doesn't, so if you want one of these you are going to have to become and HL owner. And because Tamiya doesn't make them their market is secure, and hold their price well. I agree with you over the comparison. Pretty pointless. I try to stay out of this, but when the Tamiya route starts being pushed as the only way to go, I speak out on principle, because so much depends on the individual. Obviously the guys that so actively promote Tamiya as the only way to go generally believe that is because that is what works for them. I am glad I have dabbled in both. Because of this I no longer think Tamiya are over priced. Equally I also fully understand the challenge and hours of enjoyment a Heng long can provide for those who are inclined, and like to Kit bash. If I had taken advice to never bother with a Heng Long, I would probably be back to building and kitbashing trains again.

Most of these debates end up the same way. Good thing is some good points of view are shared and the newbies, get perspective from both sides. He himself can then decide what is best for him

Dan
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