thedonut

Just saw these and thought they would be small enough to put in a 1/16 tank turrent. Hook it up to a servo with recoil to boot! Pretty dangerous though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqclQGHjMUc&NR=1

yellowshaker

My Feedback: (1)

Hmm, I am sure that could be done...but I wouldn't be the one doing it. It is remote controlled after all...anything can happen...and Murphy is a real *****.

Tanque

Putting any sort of firearm in a model, no matter how small the firearm, is simply stupid. Ill advised, hear brained or whatever stronger
epithets ones wishes to apply to the idea. I'll use every opportunity to call it what it is, especially in a public forum. We in this hobby don't
need the public at large to think that people even contemplate such things. We've all seen or heard of the YouTube videos of the lunatics that have mounted guns of some sort in models. We don't need that sort of press.

I'm familiar with the Imp guns. These aren't toys even though they look it.


Jerry

pattoncommander

That's a hairbrain idea in any respect.[:'(] Absolutely dangerous and why would you want it[:@] Bad enough that some are powering up airsoft BB guns to near 22 cal specs....just what Feds need to put the clamps on the RC tank hobby. In case anyone hasn't kept up with current military, RC stuff is being used more and more, which means the Feds are keeping a close eye on what is being developed. [:-]

Rex Ross

~~~~~~~~~

I totally agree with you Jerry, but personally, I still have some pretty wild and weird thoughts about what a guy could do if "absolutely nothing could go wrong under any circumstances no matter what could possibly screw up".

However, considering some of the injuries I have suffered just using power tools, I don't wanna have anything to do with stuff that involves a detonation, large or small. [sm=pirate.gif]

Tanque

Yea hey Rex my friend. Even though we didn't cover it much the last time you were over those who know me best know I have also been
an active firearm collector and target shooter ( although no so much the latter anymore) since '67 long before I got into RC armor.
I'll just say I can reload for 40+ different cartridges and leave it at that. I'm a life NRA member and have appreciated
firearms on several levels for a very long time. One of the main reasons for diminished range time is the loss of my dad years ago.

In the long distant past I had all the licenses and permits, Federal and Sate- wise for a Lathi 20mm and Japanese 37mm ( Rhinemetall licensed copy) anti tank gun; both now sadly long sold back into the rarefied Class 3 weapons system. From a collector - value aspect probably not one of my better moves however from a Kalifornia Liberal paradiso perspective all for the best.

Firearms does take a reluctant back seat to my RC armor hobby which I've pursued to the nth degree.

Now like you have I've also had flights of fancy in terms of functional "functions" of my tanks but like you they remain in the realm
of what-if. Practical and safety concerns over rule any what-if. The last thing I want to see is a hair brained nut job causing grief in
either of my two main hobby interests. Those two pursuits must and always remain completely un-merged.

That's why I'll always speak out at the slightest hint of this subject. There is no gray area in my mind. I'll accept any amount of flaming;
in this regard I'm fairly fire -resistant as I feel fully justified in my position.

I'm all for the IR combat systems, I think it is one of the best developments in rc armor since I began. On the flip side if it were up to me
I'd disallow any discussion on upgrading the bb gun systems' power levels because as one of the other members stated elsewhere the power
levels are dangerous. I wish Heng Long had never opened that Pandora's box in the first place....

Jerry

yellowshaker

My Feedback: (1)

Tanque, I too am am an NRA member and firearms/targetshooter. I am quite sure i am not at the level you are, but I agre that no firearm of any kind, big or small, is a toy. They are all dangerous, especially in the hands of someone inexperienced. Putting one into a rc vehicle is a very good way to make headlines quick and in a hurry. Stay with IR and enjoy. No one can get injured that way.

Panther G

This is actually a good way to try and get Tamiya and anyone else involved with IR battling to upgrade their systems. get more people involved. If these type of systems where, more accurate, more realistic and more reliable, More people would get interested and less need for high FPS BB firing tanks would be needed. 

ksoc

I admit the appeal of the flash / bang and recoil of a BLANK round sounds great in theory.... All it takes is to be reminded of the people that have been killed by "blank" rounds. Then it is time to come back to reality.

pattoncommander

10-4 on that. IR systems should be upgraded to limiting the beam through the main gun tube to require a more precise aim to score a hit,...maybe smaller IR receivers. This, instead of jumping back & forth from behind buildings and fanning to hit a target(s) and peeking over hills to see your target, it might just put some realism into the hobby and teach RC "tankers" that tank gunnery and tank operation isn't all that easy. A two man tank team of driver-Tc/gunner is the ideal way to go, but this requires teamwork and practice. I have yet to see it anywhere.

High velocity BBs are a hazard in any case and the idea of any type of firearm in a RC tank puts it close to what the military is now using for real. ie; Feds will eventually clamp down and seriously restrict RC activity. This we do not want.

danlrc

Deleted in the holiday spirit. Firing ANY projectile, even paintballs and plastic pellets anywhere near people isn't too wise.

Note - 2.4MHz system,slaved channel lockout and single shot are used on the tank system to minimize chance of problems. I operate alone. Effect is for vid only, not battle participation. Don't be too critical until you know more about the system. And remember, this is America...

Tanque

Don't do it. We don't need this grief. If anyone sees this please realize this is not condoned by the majority of model builders nor those precious few
suppliers who keep our hobby going forward.

Opposition to guns in models is generic; powder charges no matter how benign they seem aren't trivial nor harmless. Why do you feel that this foolish and dangerous display
is any less harebrained than putting a actual blank gun in the model? Black powder needs to be confined in some way to ignite properly else you've got
particles in various stages of burning being shot from the tube at extremely high velocity yet you seem to think this is harmless. You need to not post this
on this site.

What we DO need is a moderator.

Jerry

swathdiver

First we don't need these whacko statists regulating our hobby. Next thing you know they'll be telling banks that Christmas decorations are offensive... Oopsk! Too late. they just did!


Bill, Several years ago I looked into adding 2 cameras to my tanks. Besides cost, the main obstacle was obtaining cameras with known and differing frequencies. The wireless infrared spy cams that I purchased were only available in 4 frequencies and nobody but the factory knew which was which. Incidently I took a look at the latest and greatest last night and saw that they still offer only 4 channels but are now selectable.


I had designed the Mato Sherman to incorporate a miniature camera in the turret to look out through the gunners site. The tv would have been in the center of the radio. Mato already had something similar in RC truck but as economy headed south before production began we had to shelve that option.

sevoblast

I for one don't like the idea of ANY projectile emitting device on ANY of our model tanks. IR is one thing. Airsoft in itself is I guess not too bad, but Americans being Americans, we always want to make something more powerful or faster. When you get in to pirotecs in our RC tanks, you are opening up a whole new can of worms. All it will take is one child getting a face full of powder burns or an eye damaged with a BB, and we are toast. Heck, even the idea of souped up airsoft is anethma to me, because I know what will eventually happen.

The problem with RC is you can not regulate all the frequencies or even someone having the same frequency as you have and discharging your piro tank in some child's face. It will happen, not if but when. I've been to Dville many times before I moved off the Florida coast, and even there sometimes errant radio waves filter in and some tanks took on a life of their own. Just imagine a tank with a piro charge in the main tube, and the local FM tower up powers and your normally staid tank gets a Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde personality.

For me, IR is it, period. I, too, am a member of NRA, been so for a long time, but having years of experience with projectile emitting items, I have a very healthy respect for same. To RC such a device is just asking for trouble. The last thing we need is the 'media' getting a nose full and going after us. That will be the end in USA for sure, where I am now perhaps not, but given the parrotting of USA here, it's also possible. Last thing I want is Militsiya nosing round my digs and asking questions about my tanks.

Glen B

I have run into difficulties getting special occassion liability insurance for airsoft, forthe CAN-AM meets, which is required by most facilities for rental.

This is just regularairsoft.

Simialr to Servoblast, I have been involved with firearms for 40 years, .22RF, centrefires, tradional black powder and my main game, compedative trapshooting, so I am not un-used to projectile devices.

In our few meets, the airsoft has been run with various safety proticols, eyewear, shooting at specified targets, course of fire all pointing away from participants and spectators, etc.

It has been very popular at the meetsand I think the risk, ifit is run properly,is well below that of a bunch of guys my age trying to play baseball; and we can't even get insurance for it, which is too bad.

If airsoft gets that reputation (deserved or not), anything more powerful will not do well in modern, risk-adverse, ligigatious western societies.

Pah co chu puk

Putting a real firearm in a RC tank is a stupid idea.  That is as smart as putting RC on a real firearm. 

Would you want a gun that others could fire without your knowlage or permision?  No thanks.

And yes, I have real guns too.  RC tanks are toys, firearms are not toys.

Panther G

The 2 man tank crews are being done by some of the guys that frequent Danville. I know Willy has done it and I think Jimmy or Dana from HEAT has done it also. I know another team but forget the guy's names. A father son team i think.
I am planning on building adedicated2 man tank. All you need is 2 receivers in it. Yes it takes a great deal of practice, but your absolutely correct with your comments on the IR beams and systems. They really no to be modernized and upgraded. I would love to see the emitter in the barrel with an integrated gun flash . That way we wouldnt need to butcher or mantlets or have that thing on the outside of the barrel. LOL

Access

Weaponization is no longer a question of when, it has already happened. Corporations have been doing it for several years, many using RC derivatives as starting points, to build up prototypes and pitch their products to the armed forces of the world. Go to their trade shows and Castle, Hitec, etc., some familiar RC names are there, all sorts of vehicles from helis that are basically enhanced T-Rexes (these go for roughly $80K for a pair) to E-Maxx derivatives at the lower end ($25K or so and typically not armed) to the upper end vehicles like the Defender or the US military SWORDS product ($250K and up and armed). Varying degrees of autonomy, a variety of lethal and 'not so lethal' weapons from firearms to LASERS / bright lights designed to blind or temporarily disable victims. Talk to the people around, many have the same story, they got into the market many years ago, pursing agricultural, disaster assistance, bomb disposal, police, firefighting, etc. types of applications but then 9/11 happened and suddenly all the money is in the military / armaments market. So the civilian applications were abandoned in favor of weaponization.

Go to a tradeshow like RCX and nearly all the models you see are aimed at having fun / hobby. Go to a modern industry tradeshow like AUVSI and it's almost all about weaponization. It wasn't always like that, but that's the world we live in today.

See for yourself:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...onvention_2006
This was 4 years ago, this isn't new, it's been going on for quite a while.

Modern-day example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWORDS

If you want a more hobbyist type example (ie. aimed at having fun), go onto youtube and search 'paintball gun sentry'.

Panther G

That is not the point. The point is we want to keep the politics and politicians out of our hobby. This kind of thing can bring no good. Only hurt, quite literally I'm affraid.  An 8 year old just offed himself with an OZI at a gun trade show. The guy that owns the company that had the display is now on trial for murder. We CERTAINLY do NOT want THAT.

Panther G

And my most sincerest condolences to the family of that 8 year old boy. I cant even begin to imagine the grief that has brought on to them.

Access

I know what you're saying and I'm not disagree with it. I just think it's too late for that.
Many of the hobby companies are already there, they've been exploring the applications and aspects for several years already.
And many of the people joining up with the corporations building these machines are hobbyists, or ex-hobbyists, or at least familiar with the hobby. The gear used to make these prototypes comes from one of two places, direct from the manufacturer, or, on the smaller scale, from hobby shops.

Speaking out against weaponization and imploring people not to do these things, I'm all for it. Especially for the common hobbyist. It's dangerous to the user and even more dangerous to those around him/her. But I don't know if it will stop anyone.

In a perfect world, our vehicles would be used for things like searching disaster zones, bomb disposal, assisting the elderly, rescue, firefighting, etc. But that's just not the world we live in anymore

dyeager535

My Feedback: (1)

At first I was completely against this statement. I'm all for people being able to do what they want to do.

However, upon further reflection, I know the sort of "glitchey" things that can happen with electronics, especially ones like hobby grade RC, powered by batteries.

Even the airsoft is a bad idea, you have no direct physical control over it.

Kids used to run around shooting each other with BB guns, its still not the same thing. The "gun" was under direct physical control. Outside of military use, probably not a good idea to be using RC vehicles to carry real weapons.

I suppose it you wanted to do this in your own backyard, with no one else anywhere within the danger area, then its no different than having a firearm at a range, again except that you have no safety. But if you injure yourself in that case, it's no ones fault but your own. Putting others in danger due to your actions is where the line has to be drawn.

Access

Hobbyists have been doing airsoft and paintball guns on RCs for years, again just search youtube and you can find some examples. Search the web and you will find others.

for example:
http://rctankcombat.com/

What more can one ask other than that they follow all proper safety procedures that one would normally follow when playing the sport of paintball?

Claiming it's a bad idea isn't going to stop anyone, especially when you have clubs devoted to it.

Perry S.

Even I am not an advocate of mounting real firearms on RC toys. I don't know what is more disturbing in that video, the heavy mouth breathing or the baby crying after the first shot.
Conversely, I do enjoy the airsoft function in my tanks and generally tanks that shoot. It's what differentiates tanks from tractors. Beyond that it replicates the functionality that is the sole existence of tanks in the first place. I guess I am into realism mores than others.
I applaud HL for being insightful enough to add the function because it probably more so than any other the function that drew people into buying a tank and entering the hobby.
It is for some and it is not for others. Easy enough. When I hear people fearful that the govt will get involved in the hobby and ruin it for everyone I laugh. It's ridiculous. Besides, they are already involved in our hobby. They tell us what freqs we can use. Is it ruined?

I have great fun with my tanks that shoot, either airsoft or CO2. Never have had a single problem due to my adherence of safe practices and common sense.

Perry

dyeager535

My Feedback: (1)

"What more can one ask other than that they follow all proper safety procedures that one would normally follow when playing the sport of paintball?

Claiming it's a bad idea isn't going to stop anyone, especially when you have clubs devoted to it."

You are missing the point. The sport of paintball, archery, shooting, or hunting, rely on a human pulling a trigger, or releasing a bow.

A remote control tank is not under ANY direct control, and there are far too many variables to think that it is "safe" just because something bad hasn't happened yet. Lest we forget, tanks are a niche market, even within the RC world, which means proportionally how many are out there? Very few.

A firearm, airsoft, or bow is held with human hands, and the human mind and muscles are what choose to employ said items. A remote control, hobby grade device cannot, and should not, in any way, shape or form be trusted with life, limb or eyeball.

Again...consenting adults in an area that will harm no one else? Go for it. You want to speed on a lonely back road in the middle of nowhere? Knock yourself out. Just don't do it around others who aren't making a conscious choice to be involved.

I'm all for the availability of said items, it's what separates this Country from many other, used responsibly they offer very little danger. But it is a grave failure to rely on the safety of a toy.