RSEA

I ordered a set of Kenny Kong Late Tiger Tracks from his partner, Manheader (on Ebay), this past December 22nd.

They arrived at my door yesterday on January 7th.

I have posted several photos showing my findings and what I dislike about the set I received. Bottom line is I am unhappy with the pins. ALL but 8 of the pins on my pre-assembled tracks are too long and I do not like the way they look. The 22 spare pins I received are all a little too short in length.. Less than 7 of the pins are the correct length to match the width of the track bars.

The track links themselves are fine, with the exception of one link which is deformed (a bad casting). The pins are a mess.. 3 different lengths (minimum), two different shaped locking bulbs, not all inserted from the same side and most of them are too LONG (my biggest beef)..

The pictures show it all..

RSEA

After looking at these pins, I wanted to compare them to the pins on the Real Tiger tank. This is the most attention I have paid to the track pins, as the stock Tamiya pins do NOT stick way out like Kenny's pins. As you can see in the photos below, having a flat head on the end of the pin and inserting it from the outside edge actually looks more realistic than what either Tamiya or Kenny Kong are doing. Impact tracks may look better in this regard. I don't have any close up photos of their Tiger tracks to compare with.

The Tamiya pins match the KK track links perfectly in length (unlike Kenny's own pins), but they are too small in diameter for the holes in the KK track bars. Thus they allow too much play between the links and will slide right out very easily.

I could try to remove ALL the pins and cut down ALL the excessively long pins to proper size, but I should NOT have to be doing crap like that after paying $157 for a set of tracks.. [:@] Disappointed!!

Again, more photos..

EugeniRUS

Bad luck with those tracks you have!
I compared the you tracks to those of Impack and can say that the latter are many steps ahead. On the outside the Impact track have no hole. A pinhead is casted together with a track.

rivetcounter

Sorry to hear that you are un-happy with your Kenny Kong tracks but on the real Tiger the pin protrudes the track just like your pins this is where they were locked using a headed flange and pin, so it can always be argued that they are more realistic

Panther G

Yep, they used a clip that locked the pin in place. Kinda like a trailer ball pin keeper. The round thing with a pin on it. you stick the pin through the track pin then fold the round keeper ring back over the pin.

RodgerB

Send the seller an email and see what he has to say?

Panther G

Yep, they used a clip that locked the pin in place. Kinda like a trailer ball pin keeper. The round thing with a pin on it. you stick the pin through the track pin then fold the round keeper ring back over the pin.

RSEA

Eugeni - I think I have to agree with you that Impact Tiger tracks, overall, look better than Kenny Kong.

I still have not seen good close up photos of the Impact "molded in" track pin on the outer edge of the track, but they at least appear to have the correct amount of protrusion from the track bar (based on examining the photos on Impact's site). In addition, the Impact "ice cleats" appear to have more relief (are raised higher off the surface of the track bar). The Kenny ice cleats have less relief, and are just barely raised above the surface of the track bar.

Rivet - Yes, the pin does protrude on the real track, but not as far as Kenny's pins do. Kenny's pins are smaller in diameter than the hole in the track bar which they protrude from, and are too small in diameter to represent the real track pin with the "headed flange, locking pin assembly", wrapped around them. So it can be argued that either way, with his pins protruding or flush to the edge of the track bar, they look incorrect compared to the real Tiger tracks. Impacts probably look better in this regard, but I've yet to be able to see their molded pin ends up close to know for sure. From a distance they appear to look better. Speaking of which I have never seen a good close up photo of the pin ends on your 1/6 Tiger tracks, maybe you can post one so we can all see what they SHOULD look like on a good model. Along with a few good close up photos of real Tiger track pins, you must have some of these among your huge library of Tiger photos. With you being a rivet counter, I am surprised you would find the KK tracks acceptable for use on a tank of your own..

I'll be contacting the seller of these tracks. But I need to decide what I want to do with them. It would cost me a good $66 more than I have already spent to attempt to return these and buy a set of Impacts instead. I'd have to pay about $46 to send these back to Hong Kong, most likely have to forfeit the $37 I was charged for shipping to receive these tracks, and then pay about $177 (including shipping) for a set of Impacts. All said and done, having to pay $223 to $260 for a set of metal tracks..

It probably is not worth spending an extra $66 to $103 to get the better looking Impact tracks at this point. If I knew what I know now, 2+ weeks ago, I would have bought Impact tracks instead.

Yellowshaker - If your reading this, I looked at your thread about adding KK tracks to your Tiger. In your photos, from what I could see, your set mostly has the shorter 43mm pins installed. I could only pick out 2 or so of the long 45mm pins on your tracks. Your set is like the exact opposite of mine with the pin sizes, I have mostly the longer 45mm.. They should have all been either 43mm or 45mm, not a mix of the two sizes.

yellowshaker

My Feedback: (1)

Yes, only 1 or two of mine are actually longer. I wondered about that, but did not see too much of an issue. I planned to just trim them down a bit so they would sit flush in my Tiger 1. I have used KK tracks on a few of my tanks and really think they are pretty well made overall. Nothing is perfect. I was thrilled to get a set of tracks that would not be binding up on the road wheels. I have the t-81 set on my Pershing which is great. Only Impact tracks I have are on the Tauchpanzer, and they are Winterkettens. Also very nice tracks.
I am sorry you are having such a problem with yours... I have found that with a many track sets the pins have that habit of working loose. I have used a little bit of a product called Automotive good on the "fat " end of the pins. Then tap them into place and allow a couple hours to set. Once this dries they are not coming out on there own.

Panther G

They must be using wire from a longer rod or reel and are just cutting them off as needed. Not the most accurate way to do it.

yellowshaker

My Feedback: (1)

Greg, KK track pins are not knurled, at kleast not on the Tiger. they have a bulb shape at one end so they get a tight fit in the link.

manchu9inf

RSEA,
I was thinking about getting some KK Late Tiger I tracks for my next Tiger I build, but now that I have seen your post on the this type of track, I think I will stick with Impact for this particular style track for the Tiger. I have to agree, looking at my Impact Late tracks, I think the cleats are higher and look better.
I already own several sets of Impact Tracks for the Tiger, KT, P4, Panther, and P3 that I have to say I like the overall quality of each track set.
I only own one set of KK tracks for the T-34 and I think they are very well done. The tracks are very flexible and the track pins were all the same length. Either you got a bad set or quality control called in sick that day.
I would contact the seller and see if you could send you replacement pins of the correct length.

Will

RSEA

Quality control wasn't just sick they were dead and buried the day these were sent out.

I'm in a quandary about which size replacement pins I should ask the seller to send me.. The assembled tracks contain 183, long, 45mm pins. That's right, 183 of them! 7 of the pins on the assembled tracks are the shorter length (like the 1 or 2 pins on Yellowshaker's set). And finally, 1 pin, which is so short it might be a panther track pin. I don't know what that one was intended for but its not a Tiger pin, that is for sure. Loose as spares, I have 22 of the shorter 43mm pins.

Easiest thing to do would be to request 30 replacement 45mm pins to replace all of the short 43mm pins that I was supplied with. This way at least all the damn pins would be the same long length and all uniformly stick out of the track bars approximately the same distance. I would only have to pound out and replace 8 pins this way.

The other option, is to request I be sent 183 shorter 43mm pins, and I would have to pound out and replace 183 pins.. This option would give me tracks that look like Yellowshaker's set. My concern with this option, is that after removing 183 pins, I will end up with a rather LARGE number of pins that will not stay in place well and will fit loosely in the tracks. Thus having to CA glue, many pins to keep the little suckers in place. Don't you people think that once a pin with a bulb on the head has been pounded in, and then it is forced out, it will have enlarged the hole opening in the track bar. Thus the new pin will not fit as tight, once it has been tapped into place in the same hole.. I am sure some of you guys have experience knocking these pins out and reinserting the same pins or replacing them. Is my concern of doing this with 183 pins valid?

As it is I have found a few already that are loose and are not firmly seated in track bars. Changing 183 pins out seems like it would be a recipe for disaster.. Even more fun would be to attempt to cut down 183 long pins to shorten them, if I could somehow manage to do it without removing them from the track bars.

If you were in my position, and thank God that your not, which pin solution would you choose? Try to make all the pins long (the easy way) or try to make all the pins shorter (the hard way). Yellowshaker look = a lot of work and fraught with danger or The Track Pin Full-On Erection look = relatively easy, according to Rivetcounter is arguably more realistic, but in my opinion only looks like the real track pins in such a way that there is a pin protruding from a hole, period, and nothing else.

$157 plus the fun of all this! This is something Impact apparently is not offering with their tracks. I am almost sorry I started this thread, as it has prevented Manchu9inf from possibly having all the fun times with KK Tiger tracks that I have been so privileged to enjoy this weekend! Along with anyone else who has stumbled upon this thread and was thinking of KK Tiger tracks..

By all means, if you want to spend about $20 less than Impact on tracks for your Tiger, and could care less what the pins look like from the outside edge of the track, could care less whether they are flush, stick out or a mix of both buy the KK tracks! In that case you'll probably be happy with them.

Once I get past the pin appearance issue, I will report how they actually perform on an IR Battle Tiger!! More excitement and drama awaits..


I just read what I wrote and laughed my ass off, the whole discussion about the pins and the holes sounds so phallic.. Maybe I should be asking Rocco Siffredi for advice on this.

yellowshaker

My Feedback: (1)

RSEA, I agree that the holes may be enlarged after they are repeatedly removed and installed...just common sense on that. As I said, In function I have had no problem with my pins coming loose after using Automotive goop on them. I have had this tank out in the field quite a few times with the other NEAD members and it fought well. My only issue was the late Asiatam wheels coming apart. Wecohe solved that problem for me. I do feel for you though. It is frustrating to not get what you expected. Seems to be the story of my life LOL.

GeirMagne

I have Impact tracks on my King Tiger and my Jagdtiger. The KT got the late 18T style and the JT the earlier 9T style tracks. I also got T-66 metal tracks for my friends Sherman. Never been an issue with the pins or the tracks binding on the roadwheels. Only thing I can point out is the sprockets for the 18T sprockets for the KT set, which keep spinning in the tracks. I ended up with the KK18T sprockets and I'm very satisfied with that solution. Sorry to hear about your problem, I thought KK was high quality parts. If the pins are too long, trimming them would be a easy job. Time consuming thou, but still easy.

manchu9inf

Steve,
here are some pics of my Late Tiger I tracks, the Impact tracks are 46mm wide and the track pins are 43 mm long. you can see the cast on "end" of the track pins and the other end is of course the track pin head.
Hope these pics help.

manchu9inf

more pics,

Will

RSEA

Will - Thanks for posting those photos! I was just about to send you a message asking for a few photos of your Impact tracks..

It is quite obvious to me, that looks and appearance wise, Impact Tiger tracks are superior to Kenny's. The ice cleats have much higher relief than Kenny's. The Impact cleats look like they will actually help the tracks grip, and the tank climb dirt hills on the battlefield. I've watch my stock worn plastic tracks slip on the dirt and the tank struggle to climb some of our hills at DAK. Kenny's cleats are so low, they are almost not there, as if they are almost completely worn down. Look at my photos, they are just barely raised above the track bar. His cleats won't really aid in gripping the ground at all.

The Impact molded track pin ends, look pretty decent and they all protrude an equal amount, on every link, since they are part of the casting detail. There is no way I could shorten all my pins and get them uniformly shortened with the tools I have at my disposal. It would be a challenge for anyone else, regardless what tools they had, trying to shorten 180+ pins manually. Furthermore, after double checking measurements, the shorter 43mm Kenny pins end up being recessed into the track bar by .5mm, they don't even come flush to the end of the bar (most of them that is, they are somewhat inconsistent).

I wasted a couple hours of my time today testing out my new flex-shaft rotary tool, outfitted with various grinding wheels and shafts. Using this to test shortening some pins. I found the best way is to clip the pin down to size with cutting dikes and then grind the cut end flat with the rotary tool. The pins must be removed from the track links to do this. I tested to see if it could be done without removing the pins and I failed to successfully accomplish it that way. The guy (GeirMagne) that said trimming them would be an easy job, hasn't actually attempted to trim these pins.. It would be anything, but easy, to trim them down consistently to the same size, and impossible to do so without removing all the pins from the track links.

I have thus concluded that I made a mistake in my choice of aftermarket metal tracks. I prefer the Impact cleats, general design elements and his solution for the pins. If you want metal tracks for your Tiger, I recommend you get Impacts. The only reason to choose KK would be if the Impacts only looked good but did not perform well, but I have seen testimony which says that is not the case. Although I had heard testimony that KK tracks were high quality and wonderful.. In this case, my photos speak for themselves.

I advise Kenny to make some changes with his track design and pin manufacturing process or Impact will eventually put him out of business.

I've added a photo to show that my set is not an isolated case with pin length inconsistency. The photo is of Kenny's King Tiger Transport Tracks, and the pins are all mixed up in the one section of tracks shown at the rear of the tank..

GeirMagne

Ofcourse I forgot that you have to remove ALL pins from the preassembeld tracks.  Once all removed to achieve equal length on the pins, a hardened steeltube with correct length can be slided over the pins and those who is too long can be grinded flush. Trimming them in the assembled tracks, that I can see is a PITA.