Devildog0341Va

I am getting ready to install my SLU into my panzer III and was wondering how to install the apple? Does anyone have any pics on how they installed there funky apple?

Strato50

I filed open a slot in the hatch of my tiger where the safety switch was and just expanded it so it fit somewhat snugly, then epoxied all the way around it!

Take some pics of your P3 layout, I have the asiatam hulled p3 just waiting for an SLU

hulu

It is mine.

YHR

What is the pinout arrangment on that. Will a Tamiya apple fit???

Captain Action

I do not think the tam apple will work , the IR emmiter also shares the pinout plug. Not sure on the pin outs.
The SLU apple works just fine.
Also a 45 degree deffence is not needed in game play, so why take a step back and install a apple that is not made to function realistically .

YHR

Nobody has slagged the Tamiya apple more then me, but I learned the inherent flaws actually enhance game play, extend battle time, and create opportunities to build a skill set that once mastered, give you a leg up on the competition.

Apples that don't have this are at a disadvantage on the battlefield. In order for all these IR system to function together on a level playing field you need to have a certain commom denominator. The Tamiya apple is that, and if systems designed would make use of the simple pin arrangment then the Tamiya apple could be used by all systems which would lead to better interconnectivety between all systems, which IMO is essential, otherwise you will end up with islands of users of different sytems that do not play well together fragmenting an already small hobby.

That is why.

wright 971

Hi Dan it is possible to use a Tamiya apple ,but there are drawbacks ,The apple used with the SLU has to be cut in half (sharp intake of breath) then you have to wire the TBU to the lower half.Tim has a wiring diagram,but needless to say any sort of warrenty goes out thewindow.

I havnt tried it and wont now ,we have our own club so we can make the rules to suit the members,at the momment its bring what you have and runit (no BBs allowed)sowe are starting with a clean sheet some have Tamiyasystems a couple of DBCs and a few SLUs and the odd El-mod.The Tamiyas are outnumbered by othertypes,so they will have to conform to the rules forthe many.(when we get round to sorting them)

regards pete

Devildog0341Va

Thats what it all is getting installed into is the asiatam lower hull. I'll post up some pics when its in.

Thanks for the pics guys, that helps out alot.

Jim

YHR

Hi Pete

[/quote]

Food for thought

Tamiya mass produces in exacting detail the single biggest factor in IR battling. The apple.

On an IR system the most expensive labour intensive part is the IR Sensor.

Manufacturers that build to the five pinout arrangment for Tamiya do not have to spend a dime or a minute of time producing their own apples. This means a manufactuer who adopts the five pin arrangement can get product to market faster and at less expense then the guys who play around with building their own apples. If you have to design and pay for plastic parts,or hand build apples you are fighting an uphill battle. As a manufacturer it is costing you money and slowing the release of your product while you wait for your apple production to keep up.

The manufacture who pumps out electonics without an apple and caters to the people that already have Tamiya apples in their tool kit has a big supply and price advantage over the other guys.

Panther G

That is why I dont understand why these new electronics package guys don't just adopt the Tamiya apple configuration.

YHR

You will be happy to know I helped out with a recent German manufacturer getting into the game and convinced him Tamiya apple compatibility was important. So look for one more system to be hitting the market. THis is a full blown system wiith Highpower ESC that uses the Benedini TBS just like the DBC and RX18 do, and you will have the option to plug your Tamiya apple into it.

THe market is getting really crowded with lots of choices, and I am on a bit of a crusade to get manufacturers to realize we need some crossover compatibility otherwise too much choice is going to be a bad thing. So far I have been successful in getting two new players to realize this importance. This German one that is already released in Europe, and another one still on the drawing board.

Panther G

Thats great news Dan. Can't wait to see it, especially with the Benedini sound sytem.

hulu

How much is tamiya apple？50$  20$?
SLU has its own wonderful apple. I don't understand why SLU need make a connector for that overpriced apple.
If someone like 45 degree defense, He just need create a simple cover which is less than 1$.

Ex_Pat_Tanker

A lot of us have TBU's and its the accepted standard at the club level. All others should conform to it's performance, otherwise we would have no benchmark to go by.

The SLU has an irregular IR receptor spacing - yes a cover can be made, but its more of a challenge than a DBU or El-Mod apple.

hulu

"standard at the club level" ... 
That is the reason there are a lot of  choices in the market.  

Panther G

With out this standard that prevents many tankers from participating in the Large public events, such as at Danville. What you do is perpetuate a bunch of small groups using this system or that. Again , with out a standard then they are prevented from participating with a much larger population of users, so how can this be good. A choice of affordable systems is good but if they cant all talk to each other who does it serve.

YHR

Glad you get it G. It is not about who's is better, its about building bridges and developing things so we can all play. The tamiya apple is expensive but unless you plan on multitasking on the battlefield you only need one

Perry S.

My standard is a .2g bb fired at 400 fps. Scores hits on all brands and all IR systems and does not descriminate. Turning the turret a bit is no defense at all.

Of course those comments are made in jest and typed up as I sit here soldering on my DBC.

It seems the charge towards a standard is the correct direction but it's too bad that it's an antiquated standard that even it's supporters find fault in. Kinda like standardizing on the best videotape format at this point. It's the best out there now with the broadest support base.

I think there is a place for the SLU though. Remember that there are many in this hobby, and I would postulate the majority, who do not participate in club battles. I live so far from them that it isn't a reality. I think for a lot of us the scenario is that you own a couple of IR tanks and you have friends/family that come over and play in your back yard with you. Remember the brass ring for many of us is to not go to Danville and battle, it's the fun we have on a daily basis at home.

Perry

YHR

There is room and a place for all these system. For a few pennies and some thought we can get these all working together, and not exclude anyone

Stince

I'm sorry I don't get while the Tamiya system is still being held up as the standard, when people are complaining about the flaws in what seems to becoming an out of date system and some of the complainer are Tamiya owners. To use an old system as the standard just seems silly, like a step backwards in a hobby that we all love to see advance forward more. I'm say that ther is any system that is perfect and probably never will be as more people get in to this hobby because every one has different needs and wants. It's like buy a car, they all have different parts taht are not compatable with different makes and models but the manufacturers don't hold a car built in the 80's as todays standard. I think if you have tank on the field and it can fire and take hits from others with out a huge advantage and still fun than that is all that counts.

Panther G

It is still the standard because yes it has been around the longest. BUT it is also packaged in a neat little apple with the electronics already having the battle system incorporated into them already, whether you want to IR battle or not. It is a time proven system with a few flaws but again, the complaints are the result of someone finding the Achilles Heel of the apple. Someone learned that if you turn your tank 45 degrees it wont take a hit. This is easily solved by rotating the apple 45 degrees so your frontal armor is again the heaviest.

YHR

You need a common standard so all these systems being developed have a hope interacting with one another. No one is holding manufactures back with this request, all I am saying is all manufacturers should build a system that can be dumbed down to play the Tamiya game. A standard does not have to be on the leading edge of technology, it just has to be a common and achievable across all systems.

Cars have advanced but still have four wheels use tires, fit between bridges and stay within one lane. So these standards never held back car manufactures from building something unique for their customers, but they still all coexist on the road. This isn't about Tamiya being better, it is about them being here longer, with more systems in use then any other, and having the manufacturing and quality control to actually produce somehting over the long haul. Most guys have already adopted the Tamiya IR frequency as a Standard, they might as well adopt the 5 pinout arrangment as well. What some of you guys don't seem to get is that the standard is to protect you, the consumer. Invest all you want in your favorite IR equipment, but if for some reason the system you have chosen commercially fails then what??? Wouldn't it be nice to know that you could take the system and use it with others. I don't even care if the Tamiya apple is used, all I am saying is build the pinout arrangment the same on all systems so all systems apples are interchangable. I just don't get the resistance to this idea, as it protects you the consumer from being stuck with a system that doesn't play well with others.

Think of train tracks. They are a standard width and all manufacturers know this, making equipment that is totally interchangable across borders and carriers. Standards are used everywhere in the world for the benefit of everyone, not sure why some are so opposed to see IR tank battling go that route.

Perry S.

Are the protocols proprietary and protected by patents/copywrite? Probably not since we have the DBC. Just wondering.

Perry

Stince

Dan,

I'm not against a standard in this hobby and appreciate the effort you put into this, I just don't get why as you said "manufacturers should build a system that can be dumbed down to play the Tamiya game". I don't see any progress with that. Isn't already a standard that SLU, DBC and El-Mods are all compatible with Tamiya on the battlefield?

And as for trains, the next step in development are the new Mono-trains. No matter what the standard is the humane mind will always push forward and develop new standards.



Panther G,

"Sure there are always going to beflawswith systems but the Tamiya so far has the fewest."
They may have the fewest, but they seem to be the biggest. Just look at the countless arguments about "Fan Shots" and "45 Degree Defence".


Anyway, I think we've hi-jack thread long enough, but would love to continue this discussion in a new thread.

Strato50

You can see here how I mounted the apply, sitting in a nice, strong happy bubble of Z-poxy, directly where the BB safety switch once was.

Emitter runs inside the turret and out the black tube in the mantlet