Battle Damage
06-11-2012, 01:42 PM
#27
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RE: Battle Damage
ORIGINAL: pattoncommander
Rat, I'm trying to post, but either the site won't take photos or times out after 4 minutes....[:'(]
Here are a couple Pz IVs I did a while back for field static displays. Hits are from 37 or 75mm guns which did not penetrate and mg hits from 30 or 50 cal. Depending on paint type and temperature, mg hits will peel or chip off a bit of paint around the hole. On my larger hits with chunks taken out, bare metal shows but after 3-4 days it would reflect a little rust. I have a bit too much silver on a couple hits, but for the display, it was OK. You can also add a busted open water/oil can and simulate contents driping onto the tank.
I took hits on my M-46 in Korea from a Russian/Chinese 12.7 MG. On one sponson box, some paint was peeled away whereas another, just clean holes and dents. We figured it was plain ball ammo. A case where I would have liked to get some photos, but other things had priority. A jerry can of oil was shredded and leaked oil into my engine compartment..
Rat, I'm trying to post, but either the site won't take photos or times out after 4 minutes....[:'(]
Here are a couple Pz IVs I did a while back for field static displays. Hits are from 37 or 75mm guns which did not penetrate and mg hits from 30 or 50 cal. Depending on paint type and temperature, mg hits will peel or chip off a bit of paint around the hole. On my larger hits with chunks taken out, bare metal shows but after 3-4 days it would reflect a little rust. I have a bit too much silver on a couple hits, but for the display, it was OK. You can also add a busted open water/oil can and simulate contents driping onto the tank.
I took hits on my M-46 in Korea from a Russian/Chinese 12.7 MG. On one sponson box, some paint was peeled away whereas another, just clean holes and dents. We figured it was plain ball ammo. A case where I would have liked to get some photos, but other things had priority. A jerry can of oil was shredded and leaked oil into my engine compartment..
Nice shots (I mean pictures lol) Bill. I ve toned mine down somewhat and I will take some more pics tonight. Thanks for all the input and yes, its fun just seeing other tanks and hearing ideas. Having a ball just painting and detailing all my tanks. Much more fun than crashing rc planes
06-11-2012, 02:10 PM
#28
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RE: Battle Damage
Here are some updated pics...I know some are still pretty agressive but its a model shot with an imaginary form of artillery...lol I'll do better on the next one.
06-11-2012, 05:45 PM
#29
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RE: Battle Damage
One of the perks of my job as a policeman has been firing a wide variety of weapons...and getting paid to do so. I have fired a great variety of rounds into vests (kevlar), steel, and armor plate as well as car engines (running), gas tanks (and they DO NOT explode...except in the movies), plus car doors and windshields. This was done to measure deflection, penetration and personal protection. Some rounds were recovered damaged but intact, many fragmented and the steel/armor plate projectiles were obliterated. The plate never swelled very much as in some of the pix shown here. The armor was compacted or blasted away by the non-penetrating/deflected rounds. The rounds that did penetrate folded the metal away and cracked the impact area with multiple proximal hits. I will attach some pix of authentic battle damage for reference. I hope this will give you a better ideal of what it looks like in reality.
I have fired a great variety of rounds into vests (kevlar), steel, and armor plate as well as car engines (running), gas tanks (and they DO NOT explode...except in the movies), plus car doors and windshields. This was done to measure deflection, penetration and personal protection. Some rounds were recovered damaged but intact, many fragmented and the steel/armor plate projectiles were obliterated. The plate never swelled very much as in some of the pix shown here. The armor was compacted or blasted away by the non-penetrating/deflected rounds. The rounds that did penetrate folded the metal away and cracked the impact area with multiple proximal hits. I will attach some pix of authentic battle damage for reference. I hope this will give you a better ideal of what it looks like in reality.
06-11-2012, 05:50 PM
#30
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RE: Battle Damage
Tigers look good....believe if you get rid of 75% of those mg holes, they'll look more realistic.....and get rid of those #^*%# chains.
Use then to support a ditching log on the side. Nice field damage and weathering.
Tapkoote; the M-60 has a much faster CROF than the WW II M-1919 and those water hits are still a good foot apart. MG hits are a tanks are rarely together or in a line.
Use then to support a ditching log on the side. Nice field damage and weathering.
Tapkoote; the M-60 has a much faster CROF than the WW II M-1919 and those water hits are still a good foot apart. MG hits are a tanks are rarely together or in a line.
06-11-2012, 05:55 PM
#31
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RE: Battle Damage
Nice shots...especially shrapnel scars of the tiger. Hey, don't put down Hollywood..as an arson investigator for 5 yrs, Hollywood was my best friend..
On the battlefield, one normally runs up against small arms FMJ which dents 1/4 inch fenders unless real close.
Cal 50 with AP is a different story. You have a fun job...
On the battlefield, one normally runs up against small arms FMJ which dents 1/4 inch fenders unless real close. Cal 50 with AP is a different story. You have a fun job...
06-11-2012, 06:21 PM
#32
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RE: Battle Damage
ORIGINAL: pattoncommander
Nice shots...especially shrapnel scars of the tiger. Hey, don't put down Hollywood..as an arson investigator for 5 yrs, Hollywood was my best friend.. On the battlefield, one normally runs up against small arms FMJ which dents 1/4 inch fenders unless real close.
Cal 50 with AP is a different story. You have a fun job...
Nice shots...especially shrapnel scars of the tiger. Hey, don't put down Hollywood..as an arson investigator for 5 yrs, Hollywood was my best friend..
On the battlefield, one normally runs up against small arms FMJ which dents 1/4 inch fenders unless real close. Cal 50 with AP is a different story. You have a fun job...
I also share your disdain for chains on tanks. I probably looked at 100+ tanks this spring during our "Tankers European Dream Trip". I could only find ONE with chains. I took the pic just for you pal and boy were those chains heavy duty...
And don't you love how lead & copper clad bullets make sparks all the time in Hollywood...must be that California air.[>:]Back to the subject at hand. I have a few more pix. Samur was the best musuem for German armor with battle damage. Probably since it was abandoned all over the place.[X(]
PS the Sherman is in the town square in Bastogne.
06-12-2012, 03:21 AM
#34
RE: Battle Damage
You have to be very careful with tanks in museums a number of them have been used for target practice like the Jagdpanzer IV (V) very few are actual battle damage the Sherman in Bastogne is battle damage the Tiger in La Gleaze is not this was done days after the town was surrendered, a number of tanks in France have been pulled of the firing ranges in the 1970’s to be used as museum pieces so these have to be treated with suspicion, the Bovington Tiger is all original damage from the day it was disabled no more damage has been added since.
06-12-2012, 07:18 AM
#36
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RE: Battle Damage
Battle damage Korea. turret hits; insde and outside views. Tank was hit 7 times...all in turret on same side with AP.
Commander, I posted a long time ago about chains on tanks...they have to be so heavy that a whole crew would ne needed to use them, and the added weight is not worth it...plus the extreme danger of a weak link...why they are not used outside of short stepping aids or securing logs.
Karel, your tanks always look great, Nice weathering.
Commander, I posted a long time ago about chains on tanks...they have to be so heavy that a whole crew would ne needed to use them, and the added weight is not worth it...plus the extreme danger of a weak link...why they are not used outside of short stepping aids or securing logs.
Karel, your tanks always look great, Nice weathering.
06-12-2012, 07:28 AM
#37
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RE: Battle Damage
a few more with damaged zimmerit on 1/16
but be awere of overdoing the thing , the allied weaponry was on the small size on tanks, in comparision of the thick german armorplates used they seldom have damage like in our moderndays ...most of the heavy tanks had problems mechanical were blowing up by they crews
but be awere of overdoing the thing , the allied weaponry was on the small size on tanks, in comparision of the thick german armorplates used they seldom have damage like in our moderndays ...most of the heavy tanks had problems mechanical were blowing up by they crews
06-12-2012, 05:29 PM
#39
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RE: Battle Damage
Hi Rivet,
I agree with the warning to beware of overdoing it. I look at some of my childhood military models and laugh while shaking my head. I've always been amazed with where the missing metal went and how clean the holes are. I've seen and treated gun-shot wounds which were just as clean. Exits are another story. As to actual tank combat damage, many battlefield wrecks were also subjected to "Anyone home?" shots to verify that they are indeed knocked out and not "Playing possum/dead". Most of the target range tanks are obviious due to the amount of hits and damage to only one side.
I agree with the warning to beware of overdoing it. I look at some of my childhood military models and laugh while shaking my head. I've always been amazed with where the missing metal went and how clean the holes are. I've seen and treated gun-shot wounds which were just as clean. Exits are another story. As to actual tank combat damage, many battlefield wrecks were also subjected to "Anyone home?" shots to verify that they are indeed knocked out and not "Playing possum/dead". Most of the target range tanks are obviious due to the amount of hits and damage to only one side.
06-12-2012, 05:53 PM
#40
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RE: Battle Damage
ORIGINAL: thecommander
Hi Rivet,
I agree with the warning to beware of overdoing it. I look at some of my childhood military models and laugh while shaking my head. I've always been amazed with where the missing metal went and how clean the holes are. I've seen and treated gun-shot wounds which were just as clean. Exits are another story. As to actual tank combat damage, many battlefield wrecks were also subjected to ''Anyone home?'' shots to verify that they are indeed knocked out and not ''Playing possum/dead''. Most of the target range tanks are obviious due to the amount of hits and damage to only one side.
Hi Rivet,
I agree with the warning to beware of overdoing it. I look at some of my childhood military models and laugh while shaking my head. I've always been amazed with where the missing metal went and how clean the holes are. I've seen and treated gun-shot wounds which were just as clean. Exits are another story. As to actual tank combat damage, many battlefield wrecks were also subjected to ''Anyone home?'' shots to verify that they are indeed knocked out and not ''Playing possum/dead''. Most of the target range tanks are obviious due to the amount of hits and damage to only one side.
now theres a thread starter...lol...maaaaybe not
06-13-2012, 06:35 AM
#41
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RE: Battle Damage
The 2 photos of the 46 are of an M-46 knocked out in early 53 almost on the 38th. According to 7th ID combat reports, it rolled over a mine and was hit at least 3 times by 85 or 100mm and also NK artillery. ( I counted 7 direct hits) I was informed that due to sensitive location, concern about mines and extent of damage, it was never recovered. I believe it was still there when I left in 58. It was in a restricted/off limits area but two of my crew and I were lucky enough to get close for photos without getting caught and chewed out. No info about the former crew and missing mgs. Some 90mm was still in the ammo wells at that time.
06-13-2012, 02:01 PM
#43
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RE: Battle Damage
Nice pics Bill, always nice to see real pics from you with details. blitzkrieg65 ,I really like the tiger damage and how you did your MG damage and all the rest. Looks very convincing!!
06-13-2012, 03:42 PM
#44
RE: Battle Damage
Here are some period photos of shot damage.
06-14-2012, 11:36 AM
#46
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RE: Battle Damage
here's a couple from Iraq. In all fairness, it was found that Russians had sold tanks to Iraq made of plain steel, not hardened armor, so much of the damage and destruction could have been far less with good armor plate.
06-14-2012, 12:28 PM
#48
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RE: Battle Damage
I really like that bent barrell. 
Does it shoot around corners.[:-]
I'm glad someone had the presence of mind to salvage it and get it into running order. I would like to see it restored to its former glory, however.
Does it shoot around corners.[:-]I'm glad someone had the presence of mind to salvage it and get it into running order. I would like to see it restored to its former glory, however.