Old MSgt

I came across this news blurp in the Nov/Dec issue of World War II Magazine. I know about the T1 that Aberdeen Proving Grounds had years ago and how it was proportedly shipped to Germany on 'loan to them for ten years'.

And I don't understand that line "Once restored, the Tiger 1 will see use in training..." Training WHO? Maybe the U.S. military has decided to start copying and producing T1s to replace the M1 Abrams... (JOKING!)

Do a search under 'Tiger 1 to Fort Benning' and under the youtube site there's a video about how the U.S. Air Force is moving the tank to Fort Benning.

Mike in Kentucky

harleridr

sounds like a political cover up.
Harle

Frantz70

It happened this summer.




The old Aberdeen Museum <nobr>Tiger I</nobr> tank is finally being shipped from RAF Alconbury, England back to the United States to the U.S. Army Armor and Cavalry Museum at Fort Benning, Ga. At the Fort Benning museum, the German <nobr>Tiger I</nobr> is scheduled for complete restoration. This particular Tiger I originally served with the German <nobr>sPzAbt. 501</nobr> in North Africa. The Tiger was captured by U.S. forces in 1943, and sent to Aberdeen Proving Grounds for evaluation.

http://www.lonesentry.com/blog/aberd...t-benning.html

MAUS45

I think when they refer to "Training" it will be used to show how Tanks/Armor progressed, not so much for actual use. I know from my visits to Ft. Knox/Patton Armor training facility, which was moved to Ft. Benning, I was able to speak with Charles Lemons the curator of the Patton Armor Museum and he said that the vehicles that were on display had two functions. One being historical artifacts to be seen and studied by the public and second to be studied by the trainees of the Armor School.

I also know that the Tiger I did make it to Germany were it received a cosmetic restoration and then was sent to England under contract to have it mechanicly restored by the Wheatcroft Collection. So maybe it was not moving along fast enough and they are finally sending it back to the U.S.?

Really hated to see the Patton Museum loose all the vehicles, except for a few, to Ft. Benning. I was only a two hour drive from the Museum vs. eight hours to Ft. Benning, which still has to build a facility to display the tanks in for the public. personally I think they should have left the collection at the Patton Museum until the facility was built. They already had a volunteer staff working on restorations and funds were there for that to continue. Typical government planning, "Hurry Up And Wait!" It will be years before we will get to see the Tanks again.

Frantz70

More like little to no restoration work was done and the US government sued to get it back home.

"Subsequently, the Tiger I was stripped down and cleaned...

According to the press release, Wheatcroft's staff supposedly stripped the vehicle and cleaned it. It must have been a superficial cleaning; because, Mr. Dyer also said that, upon a more detailed inspection of the hull, a solid mass of compacted mud, grease and dirt was found packed in the lower hull around the torsion bars and rails in the driver's compartment. The soil wasn't indigenous to either Germany or North Africa. This rubbery, mastic buildup entered the hull, through an access point which was missing a cover plate, during mobility tests conducted at Aberdeen during the war. This mess is over seventy years old. Must've missed that, huh? So much for "stripped down and cleaned".

MAUS45

Here are two web sites that may shed some light on the missing Tiger I as well.... Interesting to say the least????

http://www.worldwarhistoryonline.com...egal-statement

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/feat...ollection.html

modelbob71

Is the Tiger back in the USA yet? I first saw old 712 in 1956 when she was on display inside the Aberdeen Ordnance Museum. Last saw her
in 1988, rotting outside in the fields with the rest of the collection. There is an exellent book on it's history called "Tiger Without a Home"
published by the Ordnance Museum in Aberdeen for $9.95.

tthompso

Same here Maus45, I was really disappointed to see it go. I had finally visited it about a year before they moved it. Have lived in western KY all my life and had never been to it, once Idiscovered how great it was, it was moved! I agree, they should have left it until the GAfacility was ready to go, that doesn't make much sense to me. Glad to see some other RC tankers close to me Maus45 & Mike, I was starting to think I was the only one in this area.

Old MSgt

I visited the Patton Tank Museum three times since 2001 when my wife and I moved back here to Kentucky after we retired from the military. Fort Knox (and muesum) was forever a part of Kentucky so I figured have LOTS of time visit it. I didn't know it was closing until I attended the last open house they had and it was a SHOCK!... now I wish I had went more often. (it was only about 220 miles from here.)

And every time I went I was always in AWE of the King Tiger! I've 'studied' tanks and WWII-up history since the 6th grade and every time I turned the corner to the room where it sat and I saw it I felt 'intimidated' at it's size! In my opinion, IT is (was...) the DOMINATE tank in all the museum. I'll miss seeing it.

Mike in Kentucky

pattoncommander

That's a very typical problem in every Amercan military museum. Upper level military who make the decisions, don't have the slightest idea about the artifact combined with the fact that museums are the lowest priority for funding.....so plans are made but nothing is done.

When I was as Ft Knox. everything was crammed into one wooden building, except the FT-13 and an early Ford tank outside. I spent hours climbing through the 2 Pz IIIs, Panther and Stug III and everything was INSIDE, out of the weather. I was very upset that when I visited a few years ago with my son, to find that my favorite Pz III Aus L (the one that had been hit and bent the gun tube) had been canibalized to fix up another Pz III and sat outside with no tracks and some wheels missing.

Our museum at Ft Jackson is in the same boat...many plans, but no action on preservation of outside artfacts and they are deterriorating more every day. The turret on the M-41 is great and moves free,, but the 2 Pershings (one a flame model), M-48C and Sherman turrets are all frozen in place. The M-48C is missing the escape hatch and the gun is held in place by chains. I had to work over an hour last summer to get the once free gun elevating handwheel loose enough the get the gun locked into the inside travel lock. We have an M-46 that is totally welded shut so no maintenance can be performed and now one ecape hatch had dropped out and after a year, has still not been reinstalled. Our M-5A1 bottom is totally rusted through with a sizable hole covered with heavy chicken wire. This is where museums stand with little hope in preserving our armor, so the deal with Tiger is not unique...until the financial situation improves, it will not be any better. It's a world wonder how they authorized finances for transport.

The condition of the tanks at APG just makes one sick and totally disgusted, but there is very little a curator can do.

Mike, Patton Museum at Knox never had a KT. That's a Panther II chassis and when I last saw it, had a Panther A turret on it so it would look complete. (That what Curator Charlie Lemmons told me a few years ago)

Old MSgt

Well, pattoncommander, with all due respect my friend, it does look kinda like a King Tiger to me... course they did also have (had) the Panther prototype you mention too.

Mike in Kentucky

MAUS45

Fort Knox Patton Museum traded APG a MBT 70 for the Tiger II and did a cosmetic clean up and paint inside and out restoration on it to at least stop the deterioration. The Tiger II was transferred to the Patton Museum in 1991. The last time I had a chance to speak with Charles Lemons, he said that as soon as they had funding they planned on replacing the armor plates on the hull and turret where they had been cut open for training/viewing at the APG. Charles was also optimistic that at some point the Tiger II would be returned to running condition as well. Oh, well? Now that the economy sucks and the Tiger has been moved to Fort Benning, who knows if any of that will happen now???

As for Patton Museum not having the Tiger II check out this web site....

http://www.ss501panzer.com/Saga_of_332.htm

MAUS45

Mike I think you Photo Shopped that Tiger II into the Museum??? LOL!!! Yes that is the Tiger II in the Patton Museum. You beat me to the Proof that the King was there, unfortunaly the king has left the building, or is that Elvis???

Rudy

Panther F

You tell him Mike! There he goes talking again.

I also have pictures of the King Tiger there at the PATTON Museum, if those are not enough proof!

But of course, Bill knows it all. [:'(]


(oh btw... that's a late Panther G turret placed on the Panther II, not from a Panther A)




















~ Jeff

Old MSgt

Yeah Rudy, and I also Photo Shopped that GOOOD LOOK'IN feller in to the pics too!!! (LOL!!)

I always wondered WHY did they keep is so dark inside the museum. Heck, if ya wanted to get some good close detail looks at the armor you'd have had to bring a flashlight!

And I'll say it again, I sure am going to miss going there to admire the King!

Mike in Kentucky

MAUS45

I agree Mike, the Museum kept it way to dark inside. It was had to get the photos I wanted. My auto flash couldn't cope with the bad lighting.

Panther F

I do have 2 RC KT's to build, but in honor of the missing KT at the PATTON Museum I think I'll builld one like this thread here http://forum.axels-modellbau-shop.de...p?threadid=584 using this kit:



I liked the cutaway on the real KT but using the clear hull and other parts from this kit I can show ALL the interior shots, including the massive ammo storage. My "Twin T-34 Build" will utilize many of the interior pieces as possible to show more than just RC gear.

Should be fun... as sson as I get my paint booth running.



















~ Jeff

MAUS45

Very cool link, Jeff. There is a guy who used parts from this same kit to super detail his Tamiya Tiger II full option r/c kit. Here is the link....

http://www.battletanksnederland.nl/p...php?f=9&t=6232

Panther F

Yeah... I thought of that back when I bought these 2 kits from BYA in 2006. But just never had the funds or something else got in the way of doing it so nows the time to execute my thoughts into reality, huh.

I should do one of the KT's that way, but still want a static one on display to see the interior, like the one that was at the PATTON Museum. Maybe if time permits I'll use it for the Initial Turret Tiger B



















~ Jeff

highrack

I am going to the National Infantry Museum just outside Fort Benning this weekend.  Does anyone know if the Tiger can be viewed by the public yet.  I know I can see an M1A1 just outside the gate at fort benning and the Infantry Museum has a Sherman as well.

Thanks,

John

pattoncommander

OK Mike, I stand corrected...the KT is an addition since my last visit. It's a real shame how they cut up the tank to show the interrior.
Building a staircase and walkway to allow people to look into the hatches is better.

I do recall having a discussion with Charlie Lemons about the Panther II chassis back in early 1990s, and how they installed an early Panther turret on it to make it complete, but had never seen a KT there. Things change with time. The Panther II chassis looked big enough with those huge tracks.

rivetcounter

Sorry old boy you are wrong Tiger 712 was captured by British troops and gifted to America.
There is a picture of 712 on a key side in America with 2 further Tiger I, the question is what happened to the other 2 Tiger I, most likely they were scrapped long ago but there is also a possibility that one may have made it to a firing range somewhere, possibly parts remain

1sgt

John,
Let us know what you think of the museum and take plenty of pics. If it's worth it I just might make the trip myself.

Jim

MAUS45

Mike, I meant to share this the other day. One of my most favorite photos of the Tiger II from one of my visits to the Patton Museum.
Sometimes you get more detail in the photo then you expect??? As I snapped the picture, my son 12 at the time, popped his head in.
I am totally amazed his head was not a blur??? I still laugh when I see this. He made me laugh when he did it!!!