aashu

My Feedback: (6)

Hello .

As many websites say, do you know if MAKO - Tamiya Battle Adapter fitted to a Heng long works just as well to battle with Tamiya ? If I am asking a repeat quetsion, please point me to the post. I just could not find any information on it.

YHR

To be 100% Tamiya compatible, a battle system must

1. Hit and be hit on the Tamiya frequency,
2.Have an IR range of 30 metres( you can get by with less, but in my opinion the range must be at least 18 m)
3.The system must have the ability to mimic the three weight classes on the Tamiya system, including the reload time between IR shots.
4.Simulate battle damage by slowing the tank down when it has been hit.
5.The abillity to use a Tamiya TBU( you can get by with other sensors, but ultimately eveyone needs similiar equipment) Ie the Tamiya sensor can receive hits from 30 m, where as the heng long is only good to about 20m

Anything less than the above is a compromise on the system , and could create issues when battling in Tamiya clubs. There is an agrument about who cares about Tamiya clubs, but I have learned from my time in this hobby that Tamiya represent a consistant level of quality. People who spend $800+ on a accurately scaled, well engineered tank are not about to throw away its decent electronics. Also without doubt, anyone who is in this tank game for any length of time will buy a Tamiya.

In my opinion if you buy something that does not do meet the recommendations above, you will be swapping it out later for something that does. Because you mention battling with Tamiya I have pointed out the specific things you need to be aware of.

This is an open forum and we have many Tamiya users here. So I am sure opinions will be shared, but to my knowledge the 5 items above are important when battling against Tamiya tanks

Cheers

aashu

My Feedback: (6)

Thanks for such a good write-up. After reading it, I am convinced that my second tank has to be Tamiya since I have a T-sherman.

sevoblast

Well written and well said, as usual I might add, Dan.

Bottom line, Tamiya Battle System is the benchmark of the IR battling sport. Tamiya was the first, and so far the best, of the genre for our beloved hobby. I fail to see what the problem is with the Katai manufacturers who can easily use the Tammy freqs in their systems and be done with it. In my opinion it is moronic not to use the Tammy freqs.

FreakyDude

well written but here is the skinny on the Mako system as it stands today.

YHR

Actually the DBC can. As you never touch the HL battle system it is still there and present to use if you wish.

As all the other systems are Tamiya compatible, the only thing the Tamiya can't do is battle with Heng Longs. Once you have battles with the Tamiya system with weight classes and speed damage, not many people op to play the Heng Long system any more.

I wasn't aware the Mako unit simulates battle damage and slows the tank down. What module to you need to buy for this?

Yes as in my post I mentioned you can get by with other sensors, but anyone who has been at a Large club tank battle, you will come to realize how nice it is to be able to plug in a Tamiya sensor, and instantly have a level playing field with respect to sensors.


Cheers

Ex_Pat_Tanker

The DBC and SLU both work with Tamiya. Before you start bashing other systems you should get your facts straight...

DirtyBird69

not sure why anybody would want to battle any other standard besides tamiya...neat feature but not reality a huge selling point in my opinion. Needless to say nobody has mentioned ElMod when it comes to electronics....

aashu

My Feedback: (6)

[&:] Got me thinking again

FreakyDude

Ex-Pat I stand corrected on that point. Tamiya can battle some of the systems I mentioned but not because Tamiya was designed to battle with them but because the other systems were designed to battle with Tamiya, ( worded wrong but kind of my point, Had Mcdonalds been first to this market we would all be fightin big mac systems now )
I do not think or I have yet to see proof of Tamiya battling either taigen, HL or Torro or Matorro though so it is only a half correction. Anybody can correct me on this at anytime.

As for bashing I do not think I was bashing anything but was actually posting Facts on what the Mako can do as someone asked a question about it and well... you read the post and make up your own mind what YHR is saying. As for me being corrected - oh well won't be the last time I am wrong about something.

Dirtybird Why choose a Tamiya branded battle system? The only way this hobby will grow is to open all standards up to change so we can allow new things to take hold. The only part that I think is a must in the rule book is the technical requirements ie distances, hit ratios etc To have a rule book specifically push a Brand of product seems more like a marketing tool than a battle rule. Kudos to Tamiya sales people for getting that done.
Really we need a group of clubs, Manufacturers and retailers supporting a governing body with NON Branded rules for Official rules and battle requirements with regard to the equipment used, how it is run etc. An example of this is to say that all approved apples take a hit from 30 meters, or all approved IR emitters fire this code on this wave length and achieve a distance shot of 60 meters minimum. With really only 2 manufacturers competing for this marketplace though it will never happen. With the divisions between Tamiya players and other tankers it will never happen.
Too bad really as I love this hobby, I just hope it continues to grow.

Buckeye36

My Feedback: (3)

FreakyDude,
Before I start this is not a bash , but a serious question.
One of our club members has a Mako in one of his tanks and it does not simulate battle damage, is this an anomaly?
If this abnormal do you have any suggestions to correct this?
It also becomes immobile when hit till the hit indicator quits flashing.
This behavior results in his tank being an easy kill when his opponent realizes this behavior.
Is this normal?
If not can you think of a possible cause?
Thanks

FreakyDude

Buckeye,
That is normal for version one of the Mako board as the mako V1 board itself does not carry the speed reduction effect.
The post I put up is in regards to a complete Mako system, meaning all of the components put together. Mako V2 is much improved over the original Mako boards ( I posted maybe a week ago that is available ). To shorten what could be a long typing session - the Mamba is what has the speed reductions and the Mamba has been released and I have sent an order in, The Mako is what interprets all the signals and what fires off the code along with containing the weight classes and the Hammerhead is the equivalent to the visible signal portion of the Tamiya system.
The immobile till the indicators stop is new to me but I will look into it and give you some feedback. I have never run into that situation but maybe its just because I never paid attention to it and didn't notice.
I am thinking I will load the new Mako on a video and post it too you tube when I recieve the boards I ordered. I have a few IR tanks in stock and Santa was going to give me one for Christmas anyway. I'll keep it all Heng Long but add the Mako system, the challenge to doing this though is going to be finding a time and a Tamiya that can fit in.

no12skyline

Out of curiousity, how much does it cost to convert an RX18-equipped Heng Long to full TBU compatibility with this Mako/Mambo setup?

YHR

Freaky

First thing is the question was about battling against Tamiya tanks. On an open and public forum I listed from my experience what you need to consider when battling against Tamiya tanks. Anyone is free to challenge my opinion on this, but the hope is on an open and public forum others who are Tamiya users will either agree or disagree on this with the outcome being a factual and fair account.

Both EX Pat Tanker and Buckeye have been involved in Tamiya battling for a few years, and know perfectly well that there are somes areas that are crucial in this reguard. All I have done is state these . I will also go as far to say that some people found the early DBC2s too aggresive on how they slow down a tank when it has been hit. This has been tweaked over the years to get it closer to Tamiya. Why? because it is important to users who want this.

I am not trying to stir up anything, but the importance of understanding what is important when battling against Tamiya tanks. If the Maku product line can do all this then I am not sure why you would take any issue with what I have said.
As a retailer it is in your best interest and the consumers to understand what the expectations and limitations are. If these are not understood, then there will be problems. The more knowledge that is shared the more informed decisions people can make.

One thing I did not know was that the Mako unit slowed down tanks when they have been hit. IS this a progressive thing, with each hit slowing the tank down successively? So does a person need a Mako and a Mamba, or does the Mamba replace the Mako?? Just curious, as this product line is evolving and I am a little confused on what it can and cannot do. As a person who has battled against Tamiya tanks, the five things I listed are important to me.

So you have indicated in your first response that the Mako is Golden on 4 of the five. The fifth one maybe not, but even I myself stated you could get by with something other then a Tamiya sensor. So have I got this right?

Dan

YHR

Actually there is the Internationl Radio Control Tank Orgnaization (IRCTO) which has developed a standard for manufactures to follow. They adopted the Tamiya standard, because it is simple and currently the established norm. All manufacturers have to do is read this and build a system that meets these requirments. At this point it has nothing to do with Tamiya branding, and everything to do with having systems from different manufactures working well together.

So Far we have

Tamiya
El MOD
DBC
IBU
SLU
Clark ( Almost, but he is working on it)


I am just curious as to where the Mako fits in. Lets us know please.

Buckeye36

My Feedback: (3)

FreakyDude,
Thanks for responding to my questions.
He boughthisMakowhen theyfirst came out, so that makes perfect sense.
If I'm understanding correctly he can add the Mamba and get the simulated battle damage, etc...
To expand on the immobility issue he is experiencing;the tankstays immobile just long enough for a medium tank to reload and hit him again.
Thanks for the info.

FreakyDude

Buckeye,
Yes he can add a Mambe but I would actually like to know roughly when he bought his mako, there are some versions that would need a chip replacement. If this is the case then I would weork something out for him. If you could ask him to pm me or e-mail I would appreciate it.
It might be that a Mako upgrade would add to the experience and I would like to help in making that as reasonable a process as possible.

FreakyDude

YHR
The question is quite simple
Will a Mako work well when battling a Tamiya Tank. The answer is YES, Instead of answering the question you wrote your Opinion about Tamiya battling concepts. This is your right to voice your opinion as it is a public forum as is my right to state what the Mako can or can't do.
I posted the abilities of the Mako system. What you understand or don't understand about the Mako system is not my issue. I have a desire to educate customers so they can make informed decisions, educating people because the have an agenda is not my cup of tea.
I stand by my post and state once again that the system will pass the so called Tamiya standard including speed reduction.
As for IRTCO never heard of them before and this doesn't change my thought that the rules should be made in an unbiased manner. The way I see IRTCO rules they are pushing for Tamiya, I mean really what difference does it make wether or not you have a 5 pin out arrangement on your apple?

I am done with this discussion as it truly is a waste of time from here out.

sevoblast

Freaky, I don't think YHR was pushing Tamiya products, he was saying that since most of the battlers out there use Tamiya tanks or Tamiya system compatible battle systems, then the protocols used in the Tamiya system are the ones that seem to be, by default, the standard of the developing hobby. Nowhere did anyone state that to battle in competitions you have to have Tamiya systems. However, since Tamiya was the first and, so far, the most reliable IR battle system, then it's obvious that the vast majority of battlers use either the Tamiya or a Tamiya protocol compatible system.

IRTCO has been out there for over a year, me being a member amongst others. It has been mentioned on this board also.

YHR

Freaky

The question wasn't whether it would work , but work well. As someone who has battled with and against Tamiya tanks, I simply stated what a hobbyist needs to be concerned about when battling Tamiya tanks are concerned. I really have no idea how the Mako performs against Tamiya. I guess in time people will share their experiences on here and we will find out.

I don't care if you are buying an EL Mod, DBC or Mako these basic elements are crucial to your experience on the battlefield. Trust me this isn't just my opinion, as those five things were harvested off another website and written by someone else. I just agree with them.

Many El Mod and early DBC users wish they could just plug in a Tamiya apple to their systems. If every system standardized their apple pinout arrangment then this would make it easy to swap and share apples with people. So from experience I have learned this to be a useful requirement that lowers cost and levels the playing field.

Maybe other people who have battled with and against Tamiya want to share their experiences about how the apple comes into play on the battlefield?

People who purchase the Mako will share their experience with it here and how it performed against Tamiyas. That is the great thing about these forums. The sharing of information and learnings to move this hobby along. I am sure in the coming months as people get more exposed to products and have a chance to battle them against one another we will hear how they all are stacking up.

Sorry I didn't want to waste your time. My agenda is simply to share information on what is important if you are concerned about battling Tamiya tanks.

Cheers

pilot lite

i think i'm the guy buckeye36 is talking about. i got my mako unit 3 -22-12 . you think it can be fixed with a chip? about the not moveing,not shooting thing until the led goes out, if that can't be fixed the rest does'nt mean much. i will be dead meat as soon as guys find out about it.. maybe you can help??

FreakyDude

replacing the chip will update your board yes, March of this year was certainly one of the earlier versions out there, do me a favor and pm me your real e-mail address. I can fix you up for a couple bucks ( Cost of Postage ) Let me know your set up as well, You using the Hammerhead or mako/ATRC combination. There are some serious improvements on version 2 boards and I may make an offer to you to bring everything you have up to that standard.
Thanks

HAL_HUSKER

Hello Guys,

2 Freaky,
+1 to what Sev and YHR were saying earlier regarding standards (not pushing Tamya products, inspite of the fact that personally I like them and stand for).

Standards are important as ElMod, IBU, Unit by David (RCTW and DBC2/3), Clark do use protocols introduced and adopted by Tamiya 9and accepted by the society).

Let me share some experience with you guys from Russia.
We also have had several attempts that new Controller+Battle system be developped with the only reason to reduce cost of RC Tank Controller and Battle Unit. Our RC Tanks Society tried to advise developpers what is needed comparing and taking into account IRCTO standard (http://ircto.org/index/rcto_standard..._practices/0-6). But these attempts failed due to the facts that developpers were not listenning to us. When they presented their products sales simply failed and never happened, in spite of ElMod and RCTW strengthen their positions.

Now we are testing seriously Clark system (as a budget solution) and advise Clark what MUST be in there as everybody wants fare play.

Besides we introduced locally new Class of Battles - HengLong. It has nothing to to do with IRCTO standard BUT we do not say "NO" to HengLong RC Tank Owners.

We share with them our Battlefield and some of them after they see how IRCTO standard works go for ElMod or Clark...

sevoblast

I have been in this hobby since the beginning, well before the introduction of computer controls and IR battle systems. When the first IR battle systems were introduced along with computer control of the tanks and battle system, Tamiya was the only game in town. Ergo, any of us who have been battling since the beginning and through quite some years use the Tamiya system.

That being said, in my opinion any new system for IR battling has to use the PROTOCOLS of the Tamiya system. IOW the emitter and receiver frequencies, the ability to set the tank at light, medium or heavy with the corresponding reload times and kill hits, and the corresponding speed loss as the tank takes hits, the ranges of both hits given and taken, and the proper recession of the emitter. If that can be done, then I have precisely zero problem with ANY new or improved older system for the IR battling.

As for a receiver, it certainly can not be too hard for a company to make a receiver modeled on the benchmark. Take Impact. Erwin decided to make a receiver, in effect pretty much a twin of the Tamiya receiver. He did it, came in well under budget, and the receiver works IDENTICAL to the Tamiya brand name receiver and in fact will plug directly in to the Tamiya DMD/TO system. At the time, Impact was a very small company. If Impact and Erwin can do it, what is the big deal with other prospective manufacturers not being able to come up with a compatible system? I can answer that question for you. The developers and manufacturers in Katai have no idea of how we battle and compete with our tanks. They are simply looking at marketing and thinking that if their battle system is compatible with only itself, then by default anyone wanting to 'battle' must buy another of THEIR tanks. In other words, they have not a clue. They are making TOYS, gentlemen, toys for children, and some of us take these toys and turn them in to pretty strong fighters. Is Tamiya a toy? Yes, absolutely, albeit in a different league and price range, but definitely a toy never the less. Wecohe? Ditto. Hooben? Yup. So what.

Bottom line, I fail to see why the mere mention of a particular brand name seems to cause such contention. Nowhere in this thread did anyone say it's Tamiya or nothing. The suggestion was 'compatible protocols', not brand name. If someone wants to run another system with different protocols, by all means, have at it. However, just about all established clubs and organizations world wide recognize and use the Tamiya protocols. That is the reality, gentlemen, a reality we can and must deal with.



Tamiya: King Tiger x 4, Tiger 1 x 2, Panther x 2, Jagdpanther, KV 1, Sherman x 3 WSN T 34/85 x 5 HL P3 Hooben Elefant Hooben T 55 And others.

Patski

I am one guy who's looking into budget battle systems...one of my friend gave me one of his 2 mako V2 boards and I ordered the rest of the parts from freakydude along with a remote control...My friend and I arent part of any club yet, I know there is one in Montreal, and i've been in contact with them...  I want to give a try, they are all using Tamiya battle system.  We will surely try the Mako to battle with them, and I dont think it will bother them for us to give a try...the more people, the more fun. 

I actually never battled my tanks against other, and frankly, I might like it or I might not...investing in a full Tamiya battle system is quite expensive, and if I dont like it, I paid for basically nothing...I like the options of aftermarket kits because they are cheaper so I dont have to invest to much to at least try it...If i'm really into it, I will probably invest more (I know myself too much... I usually go crazy when I love something)... I just dont have the 800$ for a Tamiya...got my Heng Long KV-1 IR and metal for less than 200$ and I love this tank...it goes pretty good, I also have a Panzer III BB that I like to ride as well...if the Mako battle system doesnt do the job for me, I might look for something else yes...but the RC2HL board and the other one for the motors can always be reused for my BB tank...so I wont lose everything...

Seeing people fighting over their battle systems isnt really helping... it's like seeing kids saying "My dad is stronger than yours" Comon guys...you are all of you working to make that hobby more affordable and as efficient for everybody...using HengLong, Mato, Taigen and hooben tanks on the battlefield add diversity to the fight...other than those, we would all have the same tanks, that would be kind of boring...at the end of the day, it is a game...some people take it more seriously than others, but it's still a game...  for example, i'm a big big fan of scale riding.. I got an Axial SCX10 fully customized by me and I love it!  some of my friends invested a fortune in them adding Tekin ESC and Motors, RC4WD tires and wheels, super scale shocks, I had for years an old Castle sidewinder as ESC with a Tamiya silver can as motor...with the RTR tires and shocks...I had as much fun as they did!