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Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

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Old 01-18-2013, 08:26 PM
  #1
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Default Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

I'm a big Sherman fan. But was told to start out with a heavy tank to start battling. The only heavy tank I like is the Hooben Elefant. I've been building models most of my life so tough builds and modifications are not a problem. I know the Elefant will require electonics (Probably get the Clark board) Radio not a problem. Those who have the Elefant do you have and raves or complaints? I know the Tamiya Sherman is a good quality kit. Need to get my next project in. The Bulldog parts are starting to come in for the upper half. Then I got a lot of cutting and changing on the lower hull.

Thanks for any input.


Bill
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:13 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

A good friend once told me "Do Both!"... Just kidding..  While I would like to see more Hooben sales to encourage the release of their Maus panzer. I think you would really like the Sherman build. Its a really solid tank with a great track system. Since you're a Sherman fan, why not get the Sherman and "shoot and scoot" with it on the battlefield? You could also convert it to a Firefly pretty easily. Just my opinion! Great fun either way, Cheers!!
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:41 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

The Sherman is a inexpensive and reliable Tamiya tank. If you want to learn IR battle a revolving turret is a MUST. The Hooben Elefant is not reliable. Just like the real thing. It is not a tank are going to want to battle with all day long like the Sherman could be. They are not a good tank if you are new to IR tank battles. I reccomend all newcomers to RC tank battling start with a heavy (nine hit) tank. You're going to get hits from all sides and not know where it is coming from. A five hit medium will put you at a disadvantage. A nine hit heavy is able you take kits and give hits and stay alive longer in the fog of battle. The multitasking required for driving a medium or light tank in battle is not easily acquired. It takes time, patience and battle experience. Starting with a Sherman tank is a good idea. But you must play conservatively and watch your flanks. An in-penetrable frontal armor tank is usually used only by the more experienced tankers. They have many disadvantages that far outweighed the obvious advantages of IFA. These must be overcome through cunning and experience. Tactics and teamwork from medium tanks to protect your sides and rear are imperative. The Elefant tank will spend much time on the workbench and not give you the reliability and ease of maintenance that are you are looking for. If you must choose between one of the two I would vote for the Sherman. I think you would be better served if you stayed with a practical tank. When people usually ask me what their first tank should be, I recommend the German Tiger one, the Pershing M 26 & and the Sherman. I do not recommend any Heng Long conversions unless they are an experienced modeler and good at troubleshooting.

I hope this helps you. Please feel free to give me a call if I can answer any other questions you may have. You have my number. We will be having NEAD RC tank club of battle day as soon as mother nature gives us some snow to battle on. I will gladly let you run my Sherman, my Pershing and my Jagdtiger to see the advantages and disadvantages of each in battle.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:33 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

Love to Build,
I'm Primarily an Axis guy, in fact I'm the head Axis guy in my club, and it is no secret I am NOT a Sherman fan. I do enjoy knocking them out in the heat of battle and they are the easiest tanks to knock out by far. I have built and run both the Hobben Elephant and the Tamiya Sherman in battle, and currently still own both of mine. Each has it advantages and disadvantages, but I think Bob (The Commander) summed it up pretty well and I can only echo his sentiment.

The best starter tanks for anyone getting into this hobby are the Tamiya Tiger I (which is an easy build and is a heavy (9 hit) tank, if you're an Allied guy the Pershing is also a pretty straight forward and relatively easy build and solid runner (also a heavy 9 hit) tank and Finally the Sherman. All of the Tamiya tanks go together well and are pretty solid straight out of the box for your first build.

The Hooben Elefant has issues, is a challenging build even for an experienced modeler (which I consider myself) and once complete it is a finicky runner and will give you periodic problems, and as Bob mentioned will spend quite a bit of time on the bench being worked on. If you want to see more about some of the issues here is a link to the build thread for my Hooben Elefant

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...m.htm#10827960

As much as this pains me, and it does GREATLY!! IMHO you would be much better off and enjoy the hobby right out of the gate if you built the Sherman. But that is only if those are the only two options you are willing to entertain. If you want a great first tank and want ot survive long enough to learn how to drive and batlle with it, build a Tiger 1


Best of Luck!

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Old 01-18-2013, 11:46 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

I am a Shermanholic too and the best advice I can give is that a medium turreted tank is the best weapon starting out and even for seasoned warriors. An Elefant (or any other self-propelled gun) which has a fixed gun can get out flanked in battle, no matter if it's a heavy or IFV, the BEST bet is to have a turret.


HTH














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Old 01-18-2013, 11:54 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

Craig's advice can be illustrated as so...

Craig's Tanks on the table.

Untitled by edoubleaz, on Flickr

Craig's Sherman in Battle

Untitled by edoubleaz, on Flickr

Craig's Elephant in Battle

Untitled by edoubleaz, on Flickr
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:22 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Love To build

I'm a big Sherman fan. But was told to start out with a heavy tank to start battling. The only heavy tank I like is the Hooben Elefant. I've been building models most of my life so tough builds and modifications are not a problem. I know the Elefant will require electonics (Probably get the Clark board) Radio not a problem. Those who have the Elefant do you have and raves or complaints? I know the Tamiya Sherman is a good quality kit. Need to get my next project in. The Bulldog parts are starting to come in for the upper half. Then I got a lot of cutting and changing on the lower hull.

Besides all the input here, I agree. I would like to pint that actually to make models is to have fun really. If you like the sherman or whatever do that, no matter if you will be a winner or not. Most of the times winners are losers in the real life.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:26 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

Also, to add to all of this the Tamiya Sherman is fun to build, has many aftermarket items to support it and has a good maintenance reputation too. I don't know what I'm up against with this Elefant I have to build but after reading all the bad things it looks pretty bleak.

You will need to upgrade the idler on the Sherman.














~ Jeff
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:58 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

As one of the newer people in NEAD, I will toss in my 2 cents. If youplan on battleing, the 2 best fighters out of the box are the panther and the m26....since your choicesseem to be on thelower endas far as cost,go with them26 imo.....its only 95 bucks more than the sherman here..

http://shop.aaftankmuseum.com/search...s.asp?cat=1838

thats not to say you can not win with a sherman, I have had my clock cleaned by a stock sherman.....it just depends on who is behind the stick....
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:00 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

As others have stated, the Sherman would be the way to go since this is what you are interested in, the tiger although a great tank, you did not mention this in your original question. Now I am not sure about this and others who battle a lot can probably answer this. But if you are starting out it was mentioned a 9 hit heavy to start. Would a Sherman jumbo conversion qualify as a heavy? If so, you could do that and have the best of both worlds.

Cheers
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:32 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

Tamiya Sherman , short cannon a plus. I have a T55 and would stay away from Hoobin.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:12 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Rebellion13

Would a Sherman jumbo conversion qualify as a heavy?

Cheers
Wade


Yes, a JUMBO is a heavy weight and in some instances, clubs will allow the Thunderbolt Easy 8 as a heavy too.














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Old 01-19-2013, 09:27 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

I'm a German armor guy, have been modeling it for years and amassed the equivalent of a small library of the subject. That said, I'd go Tamiya Sherman hands down.

After the Tiger I, it's a must have in the Tamiya chain, there are plenty of conversions to make it as heavy, including late war HVSS Fireflies.

For battling, that little M4 is a real runner, no issues at all. My son can drive circles around most tanks with it, certainly can chew up the Tiger in terms of manuevering and battling in small spaces. The short barrel 105 is a plus too, swings fast, I ended up throwing a Firefly barrel on it just to slow my son down.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:18 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

Ok I will stick with my Sherman. Are there any must have upgrades that should be put on during the build? (ie bearing set) I plan on making a model of one from the pacific war marines. With the wood on the sides to prevent magnetic mines from being attached. and the other field mods from island hopping. Bob, let me know if the one you have is complete and is ready to sell. If it is not I can go to the museum and order one.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:50 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

Don't let people put you off Hooben, the elefant is a great kit. The t-55 is also a nice runner but is more fiddley to assemble due to all the detail parts. The sherm will be a better battler but if you want a fant go for it.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:07 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

Thanks for all the backup guys. Although many of us differ in opinion on the RCU forum we all pretty much in agreement on the way Tamiya does things and the way they work in real world battle. I started in Tamiya battle systems many years ago and the best way to learn is by time in the battle. The longer you can stay in battle, the faster you will learn. A medium tank does not last as long in battle when you are a rookie. It's just that simple. To shorten the learning curve a heavy tank is the best route to go. Two reasons I do not recommend a Sherman or Panther as the first tank are their propensity to roll over since they are narrow and top-heavy. Particularly the Sherman. A Sherman tank is more than twice as likely to rollover in my humble opinion. Their center of gravity is very high that combined with narrow track stance and a short wheelbase make them roll over very easily. I do love Shermans. They get under your skin and become somewhat of a cult tank. Once you have one you just can't get enough of them. There are so many variants and so many things you can do to them.

Multitasking is a prerequisite for IR tank battle. One needs to drive, avoid getting shot, shoot and give hits, be aware of your teammates location, and fight as part of a organized team with a plan. As some of you have noticed I am constantly inviting people to Danville. I freely offer my Tamiya tanks for people to try out. I have mentored many rookies. I tell them constantly... the two most important things are: Don't get killed and don't shoot your teammates.

On a flat and linear battlefield like we have at NEAD, it is not that bad. In Texas, their battlefield does not have as many steep hills. In Canada, they don't have anywhere near as many hills but they have a deep tank trench, many detailed buildings and fantastic hedgerows. Hills and rocks will make your tank rollover too. At Danville it can be very troublesome. A rollover tank is an inevitability in almost every battle. Sometimes two or three tanks can rollover and any single battle. Danville is the most difficult of battlefield to learn on. If you can battle at the AAF tank Museum you can battle anywhere. I have yet to make it to California and Arizona but plan to within the next few years I have long envied their battlefields. I am eager to meet the great guys that battle out there. I do agree about the Hooben tanks. I just delivered a T 55 to a customer. The thing looks great but it has little room inside. All the external parts on the turret and body are very realistic but will easily be broken in battle. This is particularly true in Danville where I R Tank battling is somewhat of a contact sport.

You can upgrade the Sherman tank to a heavy. But just remember that long main gun barrel will get in the way in battle. Cause and effect is very relevant here. The number one goal for all of us here on these forums is to make sure you have fun with your tank. If we can save you time and money and heartache through our experience than we have done our job here on RCU. In case you haven't noticed most of the more active contributors to this form also very active or leaders in their respective tank clubs. The more you do the faster you learn. Never be afraid to ask any question here. No mattert how silly or simple you think it is.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:26 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

Now. For those of you who think I may Sherman hater..... I am not. I own four of them. It was also the first Allied tank that I wanted to battle. I started with a Tiger I, But soon realized the Sherman was flawed for a rookie to learn with. Very glad to have cut my teeth with a Tiger. At a recent Danville battle weekend that my club ran, I took a picture of a few Sherman tanks that were in one battle together. They won the day. Below is a picture.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:30 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

It started with just four tanks that were in one battle. Then I got this crazy idea of having all the Sherman tanks come out for a "Group" photograph. This is what I ended up with. They just kept coming and coming.....
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:40 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Love To build

Ok I will stick with my Sherman. Are there any must have upgrades that should be put on during the build? (ie bearing set) I plan on making a model of one from the pacific war marines. With the wood on the sides to prevent magnetic mines from being attached. and the other field mods from island hopping. Bob, let me know if the one you have is complete and is ready to sell. If it is not I can go to the museum and order one.
I strongly recommend the idler upgrade and the ball bearings. A metal elevation arm and sealing off the entire hull for dust and dirt. Then thoroughly oil and lube the gearboxes and make a cover to keep the oil in in the dirt out. Most important thing to learn to stay alive in tank battle is how to drive in reverse. Give me a call tonight and will work out details of the for the Sherman kit.

As you can see by the pictures above, the Shermans have a fantastic following. They would not be that popular… If they couldn't battle. No Tamiya battle tank collection is complete without a Sherman tank.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:42 AM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: thecommander


You can upgrade the Sherman tank to a heavy. But just remember that long main gun barrel will get in the way in battle. Cause and effect is very relevant here.


No... the heavy weight JUMBO has a short 75MM gun, so upgrading it to a heavy will not impede it like the Thunderbolt will.


Nick sells the JUMBO turret kit and with some resin skills can easily sit on top of the Sherman kit WITH some 'other' modifications.


You can PM me Love To build on any Sherman modifications that you can use or that you might need.














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Old 01-20-2013, 04:05 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

Love to Build,

Buy the Sherman and modify it to the USMC standard at Iwo Jima or Okinawa. I need a Marine buddy to fight with!

Herman


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Old 01-20-2013, 04:48 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

My Marine needs buds too!!! Head west!!


Untitled by edoubleaz, on Flickr
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:36 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

Maybe we can get our own company of USMC armor started.

Herman
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:43 PM
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Default RE: Tamiya Sherman or Hooben Elefant?

IF you jarheads get your act together let me know so I can get my camara ready.
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