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  1. #101
    mustclime's Avatar
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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    This forum needs a smilie that is eating pop corn.....great discussion.....reminds me of some of the car forums I admin on......some kid will come on there post up some civic that he has dumped 15-20 thousand dollars of daddys money intoand it now runs 12 seconds in the quorter mile......he is all "mustangs/comaros are junk" ect.....I end up telling him that you can build a 80's mustang that will beat him forless than10 grand.....I will also tell him that front wheel drive is silly on a drag strip becauseweight transferpullsweight off the drive wheels....

    Same thing holds true with the tanks from china.....you can build them to run as well as a tamiya and you can spend a whole lot of money and make them fight as well as a tamiya...bottom line, when you total up all the money needed to make a tank from china have wheel bearings, metal suspension arms, metal floors and a battle system that can keep up with the standards needed.....you are real close to a tamiya in price( using danville prices)so calling them over priced is kinda silly imo. The heng longs should be called RTRAAT.....ready to run as a toy....jmo

    That which does not destroy me just makes me more irritable

  2. #102
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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    Here you go
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    N.E.A.D Member
    All my tanks are in the project stage

  3. #103
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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    What I really appreciate is that you guys have been sensible in all of your responses and for once in a long time we have had a very good conversation about a touchy subject. Thank you for that.

    My motivation for asking the OP question was based on a couple of things. 1) I was selling my Tamiya Tiger I full option original kit for what I thought was a good price considering its out of production and NIB. 2) There were a lot of views but no takers - could have just been my luck, economy, too soon after holidays, etc.
    So this prompted me to ask what the current state of affairs is in the community.
    I really like all of Tamiya's tanks and have seen them very well built so I know they are great in many ways. I didnt build mine for lack of time and other reasons so it sat plus a total void of anyone else who is into tanks near me.

    Its good to see a growing market selection of platforms and option parts. This is how a healthy product line is supported, more options for one platform keeps people interested and creates what we call "evergreen" products. Doing a little research Im impressed with the variety that exists today since Ive last looked.
    Like a midget in a urinal I knew I had to stay on my toes...

  4. #104

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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    Not that silly... i'll be around $500 (including shipping/taxes) for a henschel KT, recoil barrel, clark electronics, mato metal tracks, 3:1 brass gearbox, all kind of detail parts (mostly made by me), aftermarket radio while a tamiya would cost me nearly double.

    Yes i have to 'make it myself'... but same with the tamiya... still assembly. Which is what i love (been building model kits for 10 years).

    Big difference in price and I see no reasons why it wouldn't be a good tank.

    Looking for a good deal? I'd buy a second hand tamiya tank. The prices they go for makes them a good deal for the buyer. Ill probably do that this summer.

    ORIGINAL: mustclime

    This forum needs a smilie that is eating pop corn.....great discussion.....reminds me of some of the car forums I admin on......some kid will come on there post up some civic that he has dumped 15-20 thousand dollars of daddys money intoand it now runs 12 seconds in the quorter mile......he is all "mustangs/comaros are junk" ect.....I end up telling him that you can build a 80's mustang that will beat him forless than10 grand.....I will also tell him that front wheel drive is silly on a drag strip becauseweight transferpullsweight off the drive wheels....

    Same thing holds true with the tanks from china.....you can build them to run as well as a tamiya and you can spend a whole lot of money and make them fight as well as a tamiya...bottom line, when you total up all the money needed to make a tank from china have wheel bearings, metal suspension arms, metal floors and a battle system that can keep up with the standards needed.....you are real close to a tamiya in price( using danville prices)so calling them over priced is kinda silly imo. The heng longs should be called RTRAAT.....ready to run as a toy....jmo


  5. #105

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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    You wouldn't be the first guy to wonder why his old tank or old tank kit isn't fetching a price that befits its age. There was another guy with the '70s clutch-type Sherman that couldn't get a decent price either.

    Rarity drives pricing. I can only think of the Imai Elefant commanding insane prices. And the Tamiya King Tiger Porsche Turret. The Leopard 1A4 and Flakpanzer used to belong in this group till Tamiya re-released then. The other tanks have been re-produced at some point.

    You'd be better off pitching your unbuilt Tiger I (56010) to collectors - however that market is rather limited. Its out of production only because there's an updated one (84273). Add to that some rumored improvements in the DMD units - apparently there's different Versions for the T-03 for rc tank drivers, the latest is naturally more desirable.

    I will say that Tamiya is less relevant today than it was five years ago. Put politely, many of today's cheap tanks are "inspired" by Tamiya's tanks. But it has helped the Chinese manufacturers get started with their own unique designs. Heng Long tried it with the PanTiger, and then came back with the ZTZ-99. And in between, they tracked Tamiya's tank releases closely. I think they did quite well. Sort of like how they've managed to get their hands of the Australian aircraft carrier HMAS Melbourne and then an ex-Soviet carrier.

    A ground-up effort from Hooben took ages to bring to fruition in comparison. We literally waited years for the T-55 to come out, even though we saw photographs of the complete tank quite early on. And even then, the first builders of the kit had heaps of problems......

    But without Tamiya leading the way up till now, the hobby wouldn't be where it is.

  6. #106

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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    Well said

  7. #107
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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?


    ORIGINAL: tomhugill
    I would make the point a Tamiya tank is a kit. Kits when built are massively diminished in value as a big draw of a kit is building and painting it. I
    Probably spend more hours building painting and tinkering with my Tamiya kits than actually playing with them.

    I absolutely agree. If you want a toy then order the HL Tiger, then if you are able to build a scale tank, very detailed and weathering in the right way, spending 200 hours of hard work, then the option is to begin with a kit, a good one. One year ago I bought a HL Tiger and kitbashed as much as possible.... in the end I had a nice toy. If you want a kit order Tamiya, then if you like a toy to run around a HL will be fine.

    A good example is in the static range, why to order a Tamiya 1/24 Peugeot 206 Rally for US$50 when you have at Wallmart the Heller kit for US$9. If you have the answer, then will have the answer for this topic either.
    Mario Covalski
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  8. #108
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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    pffft kit bash all you want with an HL and all you get is a toy..... what a crock of shyte that statement is. Everything in this hobby is a toy.
    Your Puegot example is a terrible one, People can find anything at a cheaper price but to carte blanche dismiss the quality work that most modellers do on their tanks because it is a non-branded Tamiya is ridiculous at best.
    In well under 200 hours of work I can take any kit/tank and turn it into an equivalent Tamiya quality product and I am by far not the best modeller on this forum.

    ORIGINAL: mcovalsk


    ORIGINAL: tomhugill
    I would make the point a Tamiya tank is a kit. Kits when built are massively diminished in value as a big draw of a kit is building and painting it. I
    Probably spend more hours building painting and tinkering with my Tamiya kits than actually playing with them.

    I absolutely agree. If you want a toy then order the HL Tiger, then if you are able to build a scale tank, very detailed and weathering in the right way, spending 200 hours of hard work, then the option is to begin with a kit, a good one. One year ago I bought a HL Tiger and kitbashed as much as possible.... in the end I had a nice toy. If you want a kit order Tamiya, then if you like a toy to run around a HL will be fine.

    A good example is in the static range, why to order a Tamiya 1/24 Peugeot 206 Rally for US$50 when you have at Wallmart the Heller kit for US$9. If you have the answer, then will have the answer for this topic either.
    www.shop.immortalhobbies.com

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  9. #109
    mcovalsk's Avatar
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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?


    ORIGINAL: FreakyDude

    1)what a crock of shyte that statement is

    2)I am by far not the best modeller on this forum.
    1) It isn't neccesary this kind of comments
    2) I know that of course ;-)
    Mario Covalski
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  10. #110
    Rebellion13's Avatar
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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    I was going to refrain from any more comments..............but.......I just can't . OK so here we go, So you take an asiatam/taigen lower which is on par with a "Tamiya" use a HL upper and a clark board= A Toy. Take a asiatam/taigen lower add a HL upper and "Tamiya" electronics still a "toy" because you didn't use a "Tamiya" lower? Take a "Tamiya" lower "Tamiya" upper and "Tamiya" elec's but use a HL rotation is this still a toy because it has HL parts? When does a Tamiya RC Tank, RC trucks, RC cars not become toys? I am a BIG fan of Tamiya I have a few trucks, they are fun to build, they are quality......but lets get one thing straight they are "toys". I think the diehard fans are almost ashamed to admit they are toys, and try to justify otherwise. I usually don't get involved with these discussions because I believe they are senseless and a waste of time.....but I am bored right now and don't have anything to contribute to society at this moment so I figured heck why not stir the pot a little. lol, Sorry guys you know I love you guys.

    Cheers,
    Wade
    N.E.A.D Member
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  11. #111
    Rebellion13's Avatar
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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    And now back to our regularly scheduled program. Yes they are relevant........As I am getting close to ordering a Pershing or Tiger


    Cheers,
    Wade
    N.E.A.D Member
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  12. #112

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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    Well Ihave no idea if Tamiya should or should not hold their value but here is a "vintage"King Tiger for 200 dollars. And only10 km from my place!!!

    And Iaint even tempted because I dont see the point in buying a kit thats already built (whers the fun in that....)


    http://www.finn.no/finn/torget/tilsa...kwUnica=tamiya

    p
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  13. #113

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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    And without stirringup a *****storm, if Tamiya tanks are the best you can get......why can you buy upgrades fro them?

    In that upgradesmust be oxymoronic when referred to in relation to the best?

    p

  14. #114

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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?



    TAMIYA ROCKS!


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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?


    ORIGINAL: lposter

    And without stirringup a *****storm, if Tamiya tanks are the best you can get......why can you buy upgrades fro them?

    In that upgradesmust be oxymoronic when referred to in relation to the best?

    p
    That makes no sense!! For enough money you can always make some thing "better". I'm not convinced a lot of the mechanical upgrades serve great purpose, but I don't battle at Danville so i don't know!

    Tamiya:leopard 2a6, king tiger, Porsche king tiger, panther g, jagdpanther. Hooben: elefant, t-55. HL panther f, Jagdpanther

  16. #116

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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    ORIGINAL: FreakyDude

    pffft * *kit bash all you want with an HL and all you get is a toy..... *what a crock of shyte that statement is. Everything in this hobby is a toy.*
    * Your Puegot example is a terrible one, People can find anything at a cheaper price but to carte blanche dismiss the quality work that most modellers do on their tanks because it is a non-branded Tamiya is ridiculous at best.
    In well under 200 hours of work I can take any kit/tank and turn it into an equivalent Tamiya quality product and I am by far not the best modeller on this forum.

    ORIGINAL: mcovalsk


    ORIGINAL: tomhugill
    I would make the point a Tamiya tank is a kit. Kits when built are massively diminished in value as a big draw of a kit is building and painting it. I
    Probably spend more hours building painting and tinkering with my Tamiya kits than actually playing with them.

    I absolutely agree. If you want a toy then order the HL Tiger, then if you are able to build a scale tank, very detailed and weathering in the right way, spending 200 hours of hard work, then the option is to begin with a kit, a good one. One year ago I bought a HL Tiger and kitbashed as much as possible.... in the end I had a nice toy. If you want a kit order Tamiya, then if you like a toy to run around a HL will be fine.

    A good example is in the static range, why to order a Tamiya 1/24 Peugeot 206 Rally for US$50 when you have at Wallmart the Heller kit for US$9. If you have the answer, then will have the answer for this topic either.
    Many good and relevant points have been validated here. I love the exchange of ideas. The most important question I ask anyone who wants to get into RC tanking is "What do you want to do with your tank?" Drive it around the house at Christmas, patrol the backyard on weekends or do team style IR tank battles for hour on end? Each requires a different level of RC tank. The Tamiya FO kit can do ALL three for years. The stock HL can do the first and even the second for a while ...but not the last. With upgrades and mods it can perform on par for a good period of time with a Tamiya IR battle tank. But is will never have the value of a Tamiya tank It can come very close if Tamiya electronics are used however. Yes, in 200 hours Freaky can make a fiine tank. (I have seen the Can-Am tanks and they are just superb). But can "Mr. Any guy tankowner" fix and maintnain what someone else has custom built? ...No. Tamiya gives you a super build manual and owners guide. That adds great resale value and "peace of mind". That is what they don't mind paying extra for. That you do not get in the "other tanks". Hooben is trying (but missed the mark thusfar) and more are coming. Bring any Tamiya tank with any problem in the world to Danville and we can fix it. Not so with any other tank system. I am very anxious to see the DBU, SLU & Clark units come to frution. Just test drive a Tamiya for yourself.

    This is a great time to be in the RC tank hobby.

    HOLD ON BOYS.....it is going to be a hell of a ride!!! Bob, NEAD CO
    Join us at NEAD: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/queenspanzergroup/
    He who ends up with the most toys wins!!!

  17. #117
    FreakyDude's Avatar
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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    Iposter even at 200 dollars which is on par for the used tamiya you still have to ask who put it together.
    I think that is one point we have brought up so much. At the end oif the day the quality of the Tank is going to be dictated more by the assembler than anything else. I do believe this is one reason Tamiya kits don't hold there value as much.
    ORIGINAL: lposter

    Well Ihave no idea if Tamiya should or should not hold their value but here is a "vintage"King Tiger for 200 dollars. And only10 km from my place!!!

    And Iaint even tempted because I dont see the point in buying a kit thats already built (whers the fun in that....)


    http://www.finn.no/finn/torget/tilsa...kwUnica=tamiya

    p
    www.shop.immortalhobbies.com

    North American Distributor Of The Clark TK20 and TK22 Boards

  18. #118

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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    You guys had a LOT of fun while I spent most of my birthday with my ISP in hope of fixing my Internet/tv which they broke last night by mistake...

  19. #119

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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    In direct reponse to the subject; Yes, Tamiyas are worth the premium.

    Once you peg a dollar value to the labor hours you spend on making the HLs work and sustaining it; the picture gets pretty clear;

    And this is just only from the mechanical and electronics perspectives;

    Throw in the accuracy dime; its get's even clearer; Tamiyas can be built into respectable models in its standard guise; the HLs are nightmares to correct just to get to the same standard. Again just add in the dollar value on the time needed to bring them on par... HL is not "cheap" at all

    Since this is about cost; it must be measured on the same yardstick; Labor has a dollar value even if its your own and the type of expertise needed to get HL to work and accurize is something i think all would agree not cheap.

  20. #120

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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    lol what about the hours needed to get your premium Tamiya built? That should count for something too...

    And from what most people on most boards are posting... the latest batches of HL are pretty accurate.

    ORIGINAL: kenneth74

    In direct reponse to the subject; Yes, Tamiyas are worth the premium.

    Once you peg a dollar value to the labor hours you spend on making the HLs work and sustaining it; the picture gets pretty clear;

    And this is just only from the mechanical and electronics perspectives;

    Throw in the accuracy dime; its get's even clearer; Tamiyas can be built into respectable models in its standard guise; the HLs are nightmares to correct just to get to the same standard. Again just add in the dollar value on the time needed to bring them on par... HL is not "cheap" at all

    Since this is about cost; it must be measured on the same yardstick; Labor has a dollar value even if its your own and the type of expertise needed to get HL to work and accurize is something i think all would agree not cheap.

  21. #121
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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    Now the flip side and this is coming from someone who has built plenty of Tamiyas, but does accuracy matter when your tank is doing a scale speed of 137mph? And yes getting a HL to be robust and dialed in does take a few hours of labor, but then again it takes a few hours of labor to build a Tamiya. Each has there place. I really really enjoy building Tamiyas and having a great product, but I also enjoy taking a HL and turning into a great product. Both are worth it, if this is your thing.

    Cheers
    Wade
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  22. #122

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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    scale speed of 137mph
    How true

    Not mention the bumper car derbies many combat events I've seen turn into with tanks darting back and forth like players on an
    old Frogger game.

    I'm sorry some of the videos I seen that seen that have been put up by some proud posters are near comical, like the Keystone cops of
    tanking. Tamiya, Heng Long it doesn't matter most every one is operated at too high a speed. And acceleration? Exotic cars can only dream of those rates.

    Some guys have cited videos of full size WWII tanks speeding along to justify their own speeds; well those WWII tanks speeding along 1) weren't in combat I'll bet 2) weren't speeding very long with the reliabilities of the day 3) were likely done for propaganda purposes.

    Some guys take care to operate in a realistic manner but many don't. This has always been a pet peeve...
    jerry
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  23. #123

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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?


    ORIGINAL: Rebellion13

    Now the flip side and this is coming from someone who has built plenty of Tamiyas, but does accuracy matter when your tank is doing a scale speed of 137mph? And yes getting a HL to be robust and dialed in does take a few hours of labor, but then again it takes a few hours of labor to build a Tamiya. Each has there place. I really really enjoy building Tamiyas and having a great product, but I also enjoy taking a HL and turning into a great product. Both are worth it, if this is your thing.

    Cheers
    Wade
    Missing my main point here... getting it to the same standard and also putting a value to the manual hours required.

    A HL will always definitely require much more manual hours as compared to a Tamiya.
    (On the side-note: that's the funny part, HL is marketed as a Toy and RTR. and Tamiya is a kit which is pretty much self-explanatory that require you to put time into it and part of its beauty)

    The "labor" or "manual" hours needed that all of us are putting in are not exactly low grade labor right? Most often than not they bordering on craftsman standard. Not cheap when you dollarized that. You need to put a value to it even if its your own time coz we want to compare the cost.

    If same manual hours you spent on an HL are worked on a Tamiya, you could turn it into a museum piece.

  24. #124

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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    Wait a minute... why should a HL require 'much more' hours?

    Also why are you forgetting of the many hours needed to build a Tamiya?

    You know some people work pretty quickly and do excellent work. I have seen multiple people on this forum alone that work relativly quick (and other's take years), to each their own.

    And as for putting a monetary value on your high grade work... i'm affraid there are companies out there that does exactly that... and they don't charge a crazy fee per hour.

    Your points are pretty 'mute' since the coin can be flipped both sides.


    ORIGINAL: kenneth74


    ORIGINAL: Rebellion13

    Now the flip side and this is coming from someone who has built plenty of Tamiyas, but does accuracy matter when your tank is doing a scale speed of 137mph? And yes getting a HL to be robust and dialed in does take a few hours of labor, but then again it takes a few hours of labor to build a Tamiya. Each has there place. I really really enjoy building Tamiyas and having a great product, but I also enjoy taking a HL and turning into a great product. Both are worth it, if this is your thing.

    Cheers
    Wade
    Missing my main point here... getting it to the same standard and also putting a value to the manual hours required.

    A HL will always definitely require much more manual hours as compared to a Tamiya.
    (On the side-note: that's the funny part, HL is marketed as a Toy and RTR. and Tamiya is a kit which is pretty much self-explanatory that require you to put time into it and part of its beauty)

    The "labor" or "manual" hours needed that all of us are putting in are not exactly low grade labor right? Most often than not they bordering on craftsman standard. Not cheap when you dollarized that. You need to put a value to it even if its your own time coz we want to compare the cost.

    If same manual hours you spent on an HL are worked on a Tamiya, you could turn it into a museum piece.

  25. #125
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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    I do understand where you are coming from. But my point is that if it takes say 15 hours to build a Tamiya straight from the box, I can take a HL apart and using a taigen lower hull, 3:1 gears and add the electronics of my choice in that time frame also, it just depends on how far you want to go with either build that's all. And I do agree Tamiya does make the best there is, I have no doubt on that. I will be making another Tamiya purchase in the near future, it is fun to build them. But like I said there is also a flip side to that, and that being it is also fun taking a lower grade tank and turning it into a very competitive brawler. HL's out of box will not stand up to a Tamiya when constantly be beaten on plain and simple. When its all said and done you won't have very much left over of a HL when making it robust. But IMO if you want a Tamiya or HL to battle and last, I think the time between the two is almost a whitewash. In around <6 hrs I had taken a Mato KT added 3:1 gears and Elmod elec's, now if I wanted to use the asiatam lower, add another 1 to 2 hours to swap everything over....I could never have built a tamiya in that time. But its all good, because that is what makes this hobby so great is the diversity. And like others have stated 6 years ago there was no comparison between the two, not even close. But with all the 3rd parties coming out with Elec's, suspensions, etc. I believe the gap is closing.

    Cheers,
    Wade
    N.E.A.D Member
    All my tanks are in the project stage


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